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I would say he needs to play more as well to be among the leagues best. 21 to 22 min average per game just isn't enough.
Player Discussion Hampus Lindholm III - the Return/Revenge of the Swede?
- Thread starter Ducks DVM
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I would say he needs to play more as well to be among the leagues best. 21 to 22 min average per game just isn't enough.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
He also needs to make better decisions with the puck in the defensive zone. He may well be good at preventing teams from getting set up in the zone, but he still makes far too many bizarrely bad choices when he's in possession of it to be considered elite.
Paul4587
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Well despite that he was still among the leagues best and was second best on the team statistically in terms of zone exits these playoffs. So he can't be that bad in that regard. He was also nursing multiple injuries which likely affected him into rushing decisions he wouldn't normally make.
Paul4587
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I think people overthink him on the Anaheim boards... and people put too high of expectations... I think hell be a vlasic type, tho I think he has a lil more offensive upside then vlasic.
The stuff lindholm gets criticized on the ducks forums, are things every 1 of our dmen do 10x as much as him.
Id put him in the top 20 dmen list, and I think if his offense improves a lil he may push to the top 10.. but I don't see him as a Norris winner, or even contender.
Sojourn
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Perhaps, but your statement was:
"The only thing that needs to come for him to be in the conversation for the leagues best is production."
I think you're overrating Lindholm if that's what you think. Guys like Vlasic and Hjalmarsson are his comparables. Neither one of them are good enough with the puck, or offensively, to be truly in the conversation for the league's best. Their defensive game, like Lindholm, carries them higher up on the lists than some, but the rest of their game keeps them from being one of the elite.
For Lindholm to be legitimately among the league best, and not just a darling for analytics, he needs to more of a driving force with the puck. He needs to be the general back on the blue line; the guy who collects the puck, settles things down, and makes good things happen. Lindholm is excellent at defending against players, but he is far, far away from being a Hedman or Doughty kind of guy who is Mr. Everything.
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Id agree with this post, but I do think there is room for lindholm to grow in that sense of the game.... there are times when were losing and lindholm shifts into that next gear and he starts playing that way.
I don't think hell ever be doughty/hedman etc but I def think hes got room/potential to grow in that area. I also think lindholm has the highest offensive upside out of guys like vlasic/hjarlmsson etc.
edit:
I think playing with a more offensive dmen will help him open up his game a lil more too... I hope we see him with Montour/vatanen this season... I love the manson lindholm pairing but honestly manson is 1 of the most 1 dimensional dmen in the league.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I still think he is capable of this based on some of his first couple of years play. He has had flashes of take charge O in PP situations. Whether doing so more regularly would take away from his defense I don't know. But given his age I would hope that adding the offense would still just be part of his development and not a trade off requiring a give up of something else on the D side. YMMV.
Sojourn
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Sure, but then we're talking about more than points, which is my point.
Lindholm hasn't shown he can be that guy anymore than someone like Fowler has. They've both had some really terrific games where they look absolutely amazing, and they have both, repeatedly, failed to show they can be that guy on anything approaching a consistent basis.
Maybe one day it will all click and come together, but I don't think we've seen enough evidence to suggest that's going to happen. I'm going with realism over optimism. We've seen firsthand what an elite all-around defenseman looks like. We were lucky enough to have two of them on the team at the same time. Can we really pretend that Lindholm would have that kind of impact just by putting up more points? I can't. So, to be that guy, he'd need to take his entire game to another level, and not just put up more points.
Possible? You bet. I'm not convinced it will happen, but I still think it's not entirely unrealistic. The key, though, is that we're talking about more than just a point increase.
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Oh I don't care about his points... I don't really like to judge a dmen by points... if hes playing a game where he pushes the play with the puck on his stick then the points will come naturally... but I agree id like to see more of those games on a consistent basis where he completely takes control of the neutral zone with the puck and even the offensive zone.
I actually think a guy like Montour could be the key to opening up lindholms offensive potential, Montour has that puck on the stick swagger in his play... id like to see a lil more Montour in lindholm
Paul4587
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Lindholm has shown in his short career to date a much higher level of ability with the puck than Vlasic or Hjalmarsson though. He's never going to be a Doughty or Hedman with the puck but his first three years he showed a lot of puck moving ability for a guy as young as he was. Last year he never looked quite right but I am willing to attribute that to him playing beat up all year. In the two years before last he was our most productive blueliner on the PP and had shown well above average ability at breaking out with the puck. He's still only 23, there is plenty of room to grow offensively.
And there have been plenty of top 10 blueliners that haven't been elite at moving the puck. Weber from 2009 to 2012 was one of the leagues best and he was never exceptional as a puck mover. Suter is another guy, he had a great breakout pass but had nothing on a Doughty/Subban/Karlsson type player.
Sojourn
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Weber and Suter are both examples of that "general" type defenseman. I don't think it's as true as it used to be with them, but at their best when they were on the ice the puck went through them. They took control, slowed the game down, and directed the troops.
Lindholm just isn't that guy with the puck. I'm not saying he may not become that guy one day, but he could be force fed more PP time and offensive opportunities, increase his point total, and he still wouldn't be that guy.
Lindholm just isn't that guy with the puck. I'm not saying he may not become that guy one day, but he could be force fed more PP time and offensive opportunities, increase his point total, and he still wouldn't be that guy.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
He's been making those same decisions for his entire career (he had a notable one against the Blackhawks), and a wrist injury doesn't make you not make a pass behind the net to the completely open D partner on the other side and instead skate directly into 2 forecheckers like he did this year. He occasionally gets brainlock.
I'm not saying he's not very good. I'm saying he has too many WTF was he thinking moments to be considered elite. WTF moments aren't captured by any stat, but your truly elite guys don't make them.
Edit - being second best of a group consisting of Fowler on one leg, Vatanen with one shoulder, Bieksa, Holzer, Manson, zero confidence Theodore, and rookie Montour isn't exactly an unexpected event.
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TopShelfWaterBottle
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The lindholm that showed up in the 2016 playoffs vs Nashville is what I would want to see everyday. He was a world beater that series
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Ill agree to that... that playoff series lindholm looked like a top dmen in the league... was an absolute beast.
Unfortunately the thing i remember most about that series is fowler shying away from contact and giving the puck away.
WhatTheDuck
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AngelDuck
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Lindholm's so good defensively that he probably "only" needs 45 points to be a Norris candidate, whereas others need 55-60 to be in that conversation
Still 45 points is something he hasn't come close to. But a healthy shoulder and some better opportunities on the PP with Montour also out there with him could get him closer
Still 45 points is something he hasn't come close to. But a healthy shoulder and some better opportunities on the PP with Montour also out there with him could get him closer
Magnus the Duck
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Eh? That is one of his biggest strenghts already. That he takes the puck in the defensive zone and drives it up and make things happen in the other end. Or do you think that is just a "analythic" made up thing?
Sojourn
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You really want to have this conversation? Edit: Feel free to explain to me how analytics are this amazing thing, and how they aren't hugely questionable statistics that have more significance when looking at an entire team(and even then have questionable value) vs. an individual player heavily influenced by 9 other skaters on the ice, coaching, roles and responsibilities.
What my eyes tell me is that Lindholm is much better without the puck defensively than he is with it. There are exceptions to this, when he just takes control, but those moments are still few and far between. Lindholm is the guy who makes things happen by eliminating opportunities for the opposition while they have the puck. He isn't the guy who makes things happen when he has the puck. That isn't how he drives the play.
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Sojourn
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If Lindholm were the player you were describing, and he drove the play with the puck and made things happen at the other end, his point totals would show it. He wouldn't be second to Cam Fowler as the go-to guy for making things happen with the puck, or for breaking it out of the D zone. Or, arguably, third to Sami Vatanen. He'd be the guy both offensively and defensively, because his analytics apparently say he should be.
And yet he isn't, and he doesn't deserve to be.
Lindholm is my second favorite defenseman on the team, by far, but this idea that a 20 points in 66 games defenseman makes things happen "in the other end" is kind of ridiculous. And sure, we can dismiss it as a product of injuries, except that the previous season he had 28 points in 80 games.
Maybe one day he becomes that guy, and I really hope he does because without Getzlaf carrying the team to a Cup I think we need him to be, but right now? Nope. Right now he's still more defensive specialist than he is play driver with the puck. I actually think he's shown some potential to be that guy you're describing, but he needs to do more than show it in very short spurts.
And yet he isn't, and he doesn't deserve to be.
Lindholm is my second favorite defenseman on the team, by far, but this idea that a 20 points in 66 games defenseman makes things happen "in the other end" is kind of ridiculous. And sure, we can dismiss it as a product of injuries, except that the previous season he had 28 points in 80 games.
Maybe one day he becomes that guy, and I really hope he does because without Getzlaf carrying the team to a Cup I think we need him to be, but right now? Nope. Right now he's still more defensive specialist than he is play driver with the puck. I actually think he's shown some potential to be that guy you're describing, but he needs to do more than show it in very short spurts.
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Emerald Duck
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Is Hampus also bringing back some Swedish model to take of the little puppy when he's at the rink or on a road trip, or will it become a service dog that he brings everywhere with him ?
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
Is Hampus also bringing back some Swedish model to take of the little puppy when he's at the rink or on a road trip, or will it become a service dog that he brings everywhere with him ?
Na, the dog is just a chick magnet he regularly (when home) will walk to the nearest Starbucks, sit down, and let the dog work his magic.
