News Article: Habs Let Go 4 Scouts (OHL, BCHL, USHS - Minn/New Eng)

[The Great Weal]

taking the trash out , last year drafts were awful for most of it.

What?
Poehling was near PPG as the #1 center on one of the best teams in his league.
Brook improved a lot since last year, he did well.
Ikonen struggled but you can't deny the talent.
Walford sucks.
Fleury was excellent.
Tyszka is pretty below average.
Primeau was unbelievable in his first year in the NCAA.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

What?
Poehling was near PPG as the #1 center on one of the best teams in his league.
Brook improved a lot since last year, he did well.
Ikonen struggled but you can't deny the talent.
Walford sucks.
Fleury was excellent.
Tyszka is pretty below average.
Primeau was unbelievable in his first year in the NCAA.

i mean , except poehling rest are meh , Fleury did ok idk...

Montreal Canadiens Draft History at hockeydb.com look since 05 wors nhl team at draft

 

[Adam Michaels]

2012-2015 has yielded some good players, but not all that many.

But despite trading away two 2nd rounders in 2016 (which we seem to be told by reliable sources that good chances they would have selected DeBrincat and Girard), I feel like 2016 and 2017 look like they were good drafts.

Hopefully 2018 continues in that vain because although we are far from seeing the results of these drafts, I have liked most of the players they picked.

 

[Adam Michaels]

taking the trash out , last year drafts were awful for most of it.

- Poehling did real good in his first full season in the NCAA being the 1C on one of the best teams in that league.

- Brook was unfortunately hurt at Habs rookie camp so he missed a big portion of his season in Moose Jaw. But when he returned, he quickly became one of the best PPG defensemen in the WHL. He plays the modern style of defense. When Moose Jaw traded for Kale Clague, they gave him a portion of Brook's responsibilities and the team didn't have the same success as a result of Brook's reduced role.

- Ikonen struggled in his first full season in Liiga. But for anyone who followed his season, they noticed how he improved towards the end. Nevertheless, this is a kid with talent. And you can't fault a team for drafting skill.

- Walford I'm least excited about. I hope this coming season, he changes my mind. But right now, he's the only pick in the 2017 class I'm not crazy about.

- Fleury is a real good pick. Once he went to a good team in Regina, you got a much better look at what Habs saw in him in Kootenay when he was the only bright spot on a terrible team, despite his stats not being impressive. He's solid defensively, is good at closing the gap, hits like a truck (probably will be the best hitter in Habs since Emelin, but Fleury can do more). He's good on his skates and can help relaunch then attack.

- Tyszka for me is the sleeper in this draft. A good pick to make in the 5th Round.

- Primeau in the 7th Round could prove to be one hell of a steal. He just had one of the best seasons in NCAA history for an 18 year old goalie. Hoping he carries that on next season.

From what I can tell, I see Poehling, Brook, Ikonen, and Fleury as sure fire NHL'ers. Tyszka I can see as an AHL'er. Primeau at this moment looks like a future NHL goalie, but I can't say it with certainty. If he has another impressive season, I will make that claim. Walford, after one season as a Hab prospect, I couldn't care less if they let his rights expire. But he may change my mind next season.

 

[Kriss E]

I’d go for sure, mingle with other teams, hand out resumes, do a little self promo, make some contacts with other scouts in the league, see who’s hiring.....ya, I’m going, meanwhile the guy that stays at home will do just that, stay at home.

Well ya, you lose nothing by going. It's more of a weird way to conduct business from the organization.
I have no idea why you would trust scouts to give you sound advice when you just fired them.
I assume they let them go because they are dissatisfied with their work...

Doesn't make much sense, but that's expected with the group in charge. I wouldn't trust them to manage a 7/11 with 2 employees.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Well ya, you lose nothing by going. It's more of a weird way to conduct business from the organization.
I have no idea why you would trust scouts to give you sound advice when you just fired them.
I assume they let them go because they are dissatisfied with their work...

Doesn't make much sense, but that's expected with the group in charge. I wouldn't trust them to manage a 7/11 with 2 employees.

I think it's more they already submitted as much as the organization needed for the areas they scouted. One of them scouted the BCHL and another the high schools in Minnesota. One of them is listed as Ontario scout. We all automatically thought OHL. But I highly doubt they'd have a part-timer scouting that league. He probably scouted the OJHL.

These guys report to a superior (probably a full time scout of the same area). An example is maybe the guy who scouts the BCHL reports to the guy who scouts the WHL, who then reports to Churla/Timmins. So whatever notes they compiled all season has been submitted.

 

[Kriss E]

I'd definitely go to the draft and do exactly as you suggest. Brown nose and if the Habs or any other team drafts anyone from the territory the scout was covering, blurt out "Hey, I saw and recommended that guy!!!" within earshot of as many teams that will pick it up.

This isn't a job fair, and teams have their personel in place.
Not to mention, if you bring those guys around and you see them hop around giving intell to everyone and trying to score a new job...How would it make you feel?
It really doesn't make much sense.
As much as you would like to attend, this is neither the time nor the place to sell yourself and try to score a job.

 

[Kriss E]

I think it's more they already submitted as much as the organization needed for the areas they scouted. One of them scouted the BCHL and another the high schools in Minnesota. One of them is listed as Ontario scout. We all automatically thought OHL. But I highly doubt they'd have a part-timer scouting that league. He probably scouted the OJHL.

These guys report to a superior (probably a full time scout of the same area). An example is maybe the guy who scouts the BCHL reports to the guy who scouts the WHL, who then reports to Churla/Timmins. So whatever notes they compiled all season has been submitted.

Well...not sure why you would tag them along if they have submitted all their reports and information.
And if those guys are very lower level, again, why bring them?
Why would you need to have your OHJL part time scout that you just fired with you on draft day?...

Really not making sense to me.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Well...not sure why you would tag them along if they have submitted all their reports and information.
And if those guys are very lower level, again, why bring them?
Why would you need to have your OHJL part time scout that you just fired with you on draft day?...

Really not making sense to me.

Your guess is as good as mine. The reason I could think of is maybe they want to offer them a chance to mingle with other organizations. The draft is the only time of year these organizations are all together in one place at the same time.

 

[jaffy27]

Your guess is as good as mine. The reason I could think of is maybe they want to offer them a chance to mingle with other organizations. The draft is the only time of year these organizations are all together in one place at the same time.

This is what I’m thinking....you’re let go but you show a lot of integrity by showing up as oppose to staying home and sulking.

If I was let go at my work but was invited to a farewell party where there would be dozens of airlines and their recruiters attending, you bet your ass I’d be attending.

Anyways, scouts have been let go and most here are begging for change.....I don’t get the why’s or in the manner it was done.....I mean, we are not talking about Gallant in Florida going home in a taxi......

 

[CH25]

Whos close relative/friend is getting hired next ?

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Maybe this is also Timmins last chance
At one point he needs to look in the mirror as well

 

[Runner77]

This isn't a job fair, and teams have their personel in place.
Not to mention, if you bring those guys around and you see them hop around giving intell to everyone and trying to score a new job...How would it make you feel?
It really doesn't make much sense.
As much as you would like to attend, this is neither the time nor the place to sell yourself and try to score a job.

Should have added an emoji. I’d definitely attend, though. There’s an element of satisfaction just to be able to watch your work come to fruition. Of course it’s not the best time to network, teams’s attention is focused elsewhere.

 

[groovejuice]

He's been here for 11 years under 3 different regimes... let's slack a bit on the MB hate.

One of the most important responsibilities of the GM is to continually evaluate his staff. Because a predecessor kept detritus around doesn't in any way excuse the failure of the current GM for doing the same.

Six years should be sufficient to improve pro and amateur scouting. One doesn't have to be cynical to recognize that any substantial changes Bergevin is finally introducing are being done in the shadow of the gallows.

 

[Kriss E]

Your guess is as good as mine. The reason I could think of is maybe they want to offer them a chance to mingle with other organizations. The draft is the only time of year these organizations are all together in one place at the same time.

Not sure why the Habs would care for their very lower level scouts to mingle with other organizations during the draft.

 

[Runner77]

Not sure why the Habs would care for their very lower level scouts to mingle with other organizations during the draft.

I believe they're under contract with the team until the draft ends. There is still an obligation of loyalty and confidentiality and that may preclude interacting with other organizations during the draft.

 

[Kriss E]

They worked on the draft they should be able to take part.

Well no. That's not how getting fired works, and if you want to give them the chance to finish what they started...why not fire them after the draft?

 

[Kriss E]

I believe they're under contract with the team until the draft ends. There is still an obligation of loyalty and confidentiality and that may preclude interacting with other organizations during the draft.

I get that, but again, you just fired those guys....
Unless those guys have information they haven't submitted yet and need to be there to advise the team, but then, fire them after.

 

[Runner77]

Re-reading Leclerc's article, the 4 scouts that were let go, remain under contract until June 30th:

Vérification faite, ce n’est pas un, mais 4 des 15 recruteurs amateurs du Canadien qui ont appris ces derniers jours que leur contrat (venant à échéance le 30 juin) n’allait pas être renouvelé.

Outre Ludzik, le vétéran Alvin Backus (qui supervisait la BCHL en Colombie-Britannique), Andy Bezeau (territoire de la Nouvelle-Angleterre) et un autre vétéran, Pat Westrum (Ouest canadien, et plus récemment les écoles secondaires du Minnesota), ont appris que leurs contrats n’allaient pas être renouvelés dans trois semaines.

It's similar to how Craig Ramsey was let go -- he wasn't fired outright, his contract was simply not renewed. Same for Pfeiffer, the analytics guy who ended up with the Preds.

In this particular case, the 4 scouts remain under contract during the draft, which probably means that they have obligations of loyalty and confidentiality in their contracts and this would limit their ability to interact with other clubs.

 

[admiralcadillac]

One of the most important responsibilities of the GM is to continually evaluate his staff. Because a predecessor kept detritus around doesn't in any way excuse the failure of the current GM for doing the same.

Six years should be sufficient to improve pro and amateur scouting. One doesn't have to be cynical to recognize that any substantial changes Bergevin is finally introducing are being done in the shadow of the gallows.

Sounds fantastic until you reaize that evaluating these things takes as much time as it does for players to develop.

 

[scrubadam]

I don't like the timing of these announcements -- they could have just let the scouts have their day at the draft and then simply not renew their contracts after the draft is done. And then proceed to interview and name replacements. I don't know what it accomplishes to do this now unless their goal is to send a huge batsignal to the scouting community looking for jobs, that these positions are available for the taking.

damned if you do damned if you don't. Is it really better to string them along till the draft and then fire them directly after? Especially knowing for a month or more they would be letting them go?

Personally I would probably be more pissed if my employer sat on my fireing for a month rather than being honest and upfront with me. and I bet these guys are all getting paid since its contract based so they probably get paid until their contracts end and the renewal option runs out.

 

[scrubadam]

Maybe this is also Timmins last chance
At one point he needs to look in the mirror as well

Well it cant be a good look when 4 of your subordinates get canned. It says to me the guys under you aren't doing the job. Question is now was this TT or Churla or MB calling the shots on the fireings? If TT is in charge of the show he should be cleaning house on his guys if they aren't producing. Maybe some of these guys should of been fired last year or the year before?

A good hockey analogy is when things aren't going well with the team first you trade some players (scouts) but eventually if it continues you fire the coach (TT).

 

[Runner77]

damned if you do damned if you don't. Is it really better to string them along till the draft and then fire them directly after? Especially knowing for a month or more they would be letting them go?

They would have figured it out by now since their contracts were expiring and there had been no discussions about negotiating a new deal.

Doesn't matter, I'm sure some other clubs will hire them. It remains an incestuous circle, the same people keep making the rounds. If only our jobs had the same level of built-in security, even if their salaries are apparently crap. There is a shot at upward mobility, however, if they are any good at what they're doing.

What I care about as a fan, is to make sure that the scouting work they were paid for, will be for the Habs's use exclusively. And wish them well, since they have families and obligations, like the rest of us.

 

[scrubadam]

They would have figured it out by now since their contracts were expiring and there had been no discussions about negotiating a new deal.

Doesn't matter, I'm sure some other clubs will hire them. It remains an incestuous circle, the same people keep making the rounds. If only our jobs had the same level of built-in security, even if their salaries are apparently crap. There is a shot at upward mobility, however, if they are any good at what they're doing.

What I care about as a fan, is to make sure that the scouting work they were paid for, will be for the Habs's use exclusively. And wish them well, since they have families and obligations, like the rest of us.

Lets hope they land on their feet but it seems like a pretty thankless job and from my understanding it seems it doesn't really pay that well.

 

[Laurentide]

They would have figured it out by now since their contracts were expiring and there had been no discussions about negotiating a new deal.

Doesn't matter, I'm sure some other clubs will hire them. It remains an incestuous circle, the same people keep making the rounds. If only our jobs had the same level of built-in security, even if their salaries are apparently crap. There is a shot at upward mobility, however, if they are any good at what they're doing.

What I care about as a fan, is to make sure that the scouting work they were paid for, will be for the Habs's use exclusively. And wish them well, since they have families and obligations, like the rest of us.

Well except for McCagg. He got canned in less than a year of being hired and never worked again. But if you read his stuff you know why that is.