groovejuice
Without deviation progress is not possible
Yeah, if only the GM had lists of players each scout endorsed and their production since then, as well as players they missed completely. If only...
News Article: Habs Let Go 4 Scouts (OHL, BCHL, USHS - Minn/New Eng)
- Thread starter Habby Gilmore
- Start date
Yeah, if only the GM had lists of players each scout endorsed and their production since then, as well as players they missed completely. If only...
admiralcadillac
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- Oct 22, 2017
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It takes years for those lists to form though right.
Timmins and co were still riding on the coattails of Price, Pac, Swiss Weber and Subban in short succession.
From the moment Bergy got into his seat the selections have been poor. Some of it might be his fault but we're really only realizing now how poorly the last 6 or so years of drafting have gone.
Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
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I guess it's a mix of saying to them that their contract won't be renewed but we will bring you where all the other teams are so that you can maybe find something else somewhere else. With surely confidentiality clause that you don't talk to other teams about our picks.
Captain Mountain
Formerly Captain Wolverine
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Huh? Gauthier burned the scouting staff to the ground and Bergevin moved pretty quickly to get his guys in. Not in time for 2012, but definitely 2013.
groovejuice
Without deviation progress is not possible
Taking years to act and acting proactively are choices that a professional organization can choose. The Habs systemically opt for the wrong one.
When there's no oversight by the GM with his staff or by the President regarding the GM, the CF we see today is the result.
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admiralcadillac
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What does that have to do withanything? Because of the nature of developpment, it takes YEARS to evaluate it.
How much more proactively were you expecting them to act? Maybe they should have fired these scouts last year, the year before? My only point is that it takes years to evaluate. It didn't go well and they are overhauling. They are being proactive now that its obvious the last 4 or so years of draftees have not panned out. I don't really understand how much earlier the evaluation process can be when it comes to that. You're criticizing management for an evaluationthat inherently takes alot of time.
Laurentide
Registered User
What Gauthier did, firing scouts and using video instead, was the exact sort of penny-pinching thing that characterizes bad organizations. Good scouting is the lifeblood of an organization yet the last two GM's this team has had have either gutted it to save money or staffed it with cronies like it was the Canadian Senate.
Scouting is an area where a rich team like the Habs should excel. There is no salary cap in the scouting department. You as a team are free to hire as many of them as you wish at whatever price you wish. And since most of them don't get paid much it wouldn't take much to lure the best and brightest. But the Habs are more concerned with not causing scout salaries to escalate through competition than they are about actually getting the best scouts.
You can make excuses about why this team can't attract top-tier free agents or that trades are hard but there is absolutely no excuse for the Habs not to have the absolute most, best and highest-paid scouts in all of professional sports because having that is a simple matter of deciding to do it. There literally are no impediments except those which they impose on themselves.
Scouting is an area where a rich team like the Habs should excel. There is no salary cap in the scouting department. You as a team are free to hire as many of them as you wish at whatever price you wish. And since most of them don't get paid much it wouldn't take much to lure the best and brightest. But the Habs are more concerned with not causing scout salaries to escalate through competition than they are about actually getting the best scouts.
You can make excuses about why this team can't attract top-tier free agents or that trades are hard but there is absolutely no excuse for the Habs not to have the absolute most, best and highest-paid scouts in all of professional sports because having that is a simple matter of deciding to do it. There literally are no impediments except those which they impose on themselves.
Captain Mountain
Formerly Captain Wolverine
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And he's had years. And it only takes years for performance evaluation. Evaluating the validity of data-sets or process takes shorter.
- Jun 24, 2012
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Takes that guy to fail at landing a scouting job within a circle where everyone gets a job eventually. I believe that individual was only a scout for some 3 months on a part-time basis some 10 years ago. Apparently, you don't need more than that to be able to dub yourself an expert at a twitter account where you spend most of your time telling people to f*** off.
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Hiring scouts should be an advantage the Habs should own hands down. Someone had posted a graph showing how much or what size of personnel teams allocated to scouting and if I remember correctly, there were several teams who fared a lot better than the Habs and were doing it with lesser staffs.
Ultimately, you'd want to see them use their financial advantage to scoop up the best. The number of scouts should flow from that. There is no reason not to have the best on staff. This point has been driven here for years but apparently, the scouts they hire seem to depend on other criteria.
Vachon23
Registered User
I would let go the QMJHL scout to ! we let go to many good players in the Q in the past few years, even if we have 2 scouts there
Andrei79
Registered User
- Jan 25, 2013
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Michel Boucher's doing fine job with TB. Look at their Q drafts and signings since 2011.
Maybe the problem is also listening to the right people.
Heck, Gauthier let go of Ronta, the guy responsible for Markov, who was screaming for the team pick Chara.
Thats where leadership becomes very, very important - since you might already have the right tools, but youre not using them.
Vachon23
Registered User
We sould never let Michel Boucher go ! He's a great scout ! But the guy we didin't sign and that would have help us alote because he is a great scout is Raphael Pouliot
admiralcadillac
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Evaluating the validity of data-sets requires an accumulation of data doesn't it?
Andrei79
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Yep to both...
It's actually pretty sad that an expansion team, and not the Habs, were at the forefront of getting a guy like Pouliot. What he did was impressive for his age.
groovejuice
Without deviation progress is not possible
Let's agree to disagree. One thing is certain. The Habs are now being REACTIVE with these firings, not proactive.
- Jun 24, 2012
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Part-time scouting dismissals don't exactly scream significant organizational changes to the Scouting Department. The LaPresse piece was claiming that 25% of the Habs scouts are being terminated -- but these individuals as essential as they might be in any organization, do not in and of themselves, constitute a major organizational change.
The whole thing only draws attention on account of so many of them being let go just before the draft. It's as if someone within the Habs's organization thought it might be a good idea to announce their termination all at once and to do it at a time when the fans's attention is so draft-focused, so that they could get mileage out of them being terminated within the wider ambit of Molson's wide-reaching organizational changes promised for this off season.
Sure thing, Geoff. But there still haven't been significant changes made to your Pro and Amateur Scouting Depts. We're keeping count, you've only cut a small part of the tail of the snake.
Your trusted bumblers are about to take us into this team's most important draft in the last 7 years. And apparently you're more than OK with that. Sure thing. Keep firing poor saps who are working for you part time.
groovejuice
Without deviation progress is not possible
Good take R77, and likely closer to the truth than some want to believe. I mean this is the guy who bolded and underlined concession services as a prime target to support the improvement of the hockey experience.
sheed36
Registered User
I've been out of town a few times in the past month or so and may have missed it but have the Habs chosen a defense coach to replace JJD yet?
admiralcadillac
Registered User
- Oct 22, 2017
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I get that, but I don't think you can easily make the distinction between being reactive and proactive when the inherent nature of making evaluations on scouting staff is waiting for prospects to pan out. Of course it's reactive. Are those two really separable? The one thing we can agree on is that it's been crap.
Being proactive would have been hiring more competent people to scout and develop the players drafted in the first place.
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sheed36
Registered User
I guess there's no hurry but I expected someone to be hired by now.
- Jun 24, 2012
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They're in the war room, I suppose.
The little extra time they have is reserved for firing part-timers.
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The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
Taking years to act and acting proactively are choices that a professional organization can choose. The Habs systemically opt for the wrong one.
When there's no oversight by the GM with his staff or by the President regarding the GM, the CF we see today is the result.
Honnestly its an insult to Mickey Mouse when we call the habs a Mickey Mouse organisation...sorry Mickey
Doc McKenna
A new era 2021
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