Greatest Net Front Presence Of All Time

[Killion]

Is there anyone (I'm looking at you, @Canadiens1958 and @Killion) who'd like to expand upon the evolution of the role? Who'd have been the first guy to regularly spend a lot of time with his back to the goaltender, looking to either get in front of point shots for a tip or screen, or to sag behind the goal line for a short-side tuck-in or a quick reverse pass into the slot? I imagine a few of these names didn't exactly play that way, despite scoring a lot of 6-inch goals, and the role as exists today certainly couldn't have existed before the forward pass.

The origins of a "Slot Player", a guy who is basically one-dimensional, "parks it" in front of or beside the net looking to tip the puck in, a deflection, going for the rebound but who also possesses an exceptionally quick release with accuracy, total precision..... the originator is actually a guy from your nick of the woods, the Maritimes..... and that would be one Gordon Arthur Drillon....

Phil Esposito, Dave Andreychuk, Dino Ciccarelli & others as mentioned following Gordie's model, something his Coach Hap Day in Toronto was none too pleased about however he gave him his head as he was essentially a scoring machine, putting them in at critical junctures so a Money Player.... the first of that kind. He only played 7 or 8 seasons in the NHL, all with Toronto but for his final year in Montreal, joining up in 43, and when he'd finished knife fighting Nazi's & his stint in the military... he Coached a team in Newfoundland. Thereafter, returned home to New Brunswick, got a job in the civil service and was also a Scout for the Leafs covering the Maritime Provinces for many a year, many a long howling winter.

Now.... I suspect your well aware of all of this Johnny... know all about Gordie Drillon.... and that you only asked me ( along with @Canadiens1958 ) so as to illicit some love for the Maritime's... as you probably feel at times "cut off"..... remote from the general population on "the Mainland" n' so on & so on. Ya, I'montayaBye..... My post little more than an advertorial for the fine people & players who've come from the East Coast... dont get enough love, respect.... Well, Gordie was Phil before Phil, Gordie was Dave before Dave, Gordie was Dino before Dino & plenty of others.... Amazing really, that he made it to the NHL from Moncton New Brunswick.... sandwiched as it were between some seriously pissed off French Canadians on one side & drunken Celtic fiddlers on the other uh?.... But Gordie, Gordies "the Man". He had "presence" in spades. The 1st.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

maybe i’m overthinking this but i always took net front presence to be a guy who caused so much trouble in front of the net that he had to have a guy on him, drawing one of your penalty killers away from the box.

so i don’t count darty guys who just had good hands in tight, like robitaille or greg adams, or even guys who were good screeners and tipper-inners like nieuwendyk. has to be a guy who is interfering with your goalie or at least crowding him to the point of distraction, and usually to the point of inciting violence.

ciccarelli stands out as a guy goalies hated. the usual behemoths: neely, kevin stevens, tkachuk, and for a while bertuzzi was money in the bank for a pp goal, before they changed the way he and he alone was officiated he became mobey in the bank for an offsetting interference penalty.

phil esposito had to be the most successful player in that role right?

 

[Canadiens1958]

The origins of a "Slot Player", a guy who is basically one-dimensional, "parks it" in front of or beside the net looking to tip the puck in, a deflection, going for the rebound but who also possesses an exceptionally quick release with accuracy, total precision..... the originator is actually a guy from your nick of the woods, the Maritimes..... and that would be one Gordon Arthur Drillon....

Phil Esposito, Dave Andreychuk, Dino Ciccarelli & others as mentioned following Gordie's model, something his Coach Hap Day in Toronto was none too pleased about however he gave him his head as he was essentially a scoring machine, putting them in at critical junctures so a Money Player.... the first of that kind. He only played 7 or 8 seasons in the NHL, all with Toronto but for his final year in Montreal, joining up in 43, and when he'd finished knife fighting Nazi's & his stint in the military... he Coached a team in Newfoundland. Thereafter, returned home to New Brunswick, got a job in the civil service and was also a Scout for the Leafs covering the Maritime Provinces for many a year, many a long howling winter.

Now.... I suspect your well aware of all of this Johnny... know all about Gordie Drillon.... and that you only asked me ( along with @Canadiens1958 ) so as to illicit some love for the Maritime's... as you probably feel at times "cut off"..... remote from the general population on "the Mainland" n' so on & so on. Ya, I'montayaBye..... My post little more than an advertorial for the fine people & players who've come from the East Coast... dont get enough love, respect.... Well, Gordie was Phil before Phil, Gordie was Dave before Dave, Gordie was Dino before Dino & plenty of others.... Amazing really, that he made it to the NHL from Moncton New Brunswick.... sandwiched as it were between some seriously pissed off French Canadians on one side & drunken Celtic fiddlers on the other uh?.... But Gordie, Gordies "the Man". He had "presence" in spades. The 1st.

Gordie Drillon, pre Red Line. Career trailing winger, read the flow and head for open ice. Knew how to anticipate rebounds.

1941-42 Toronto Maple Leafs Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

More complete than believed.Used to kill penalties. Reverse the process and take away the oppositions open areas.

One of the 1942 Leafs who Day replaced when they were down 0-3 in the 1942 SC Finals.

 

[Johnny Engine]

The origins of a "Slot Player", a guy who is basically one-dimensional, "parks it" in front of or beside the net looking to tip the puck in, a deflection, going for the rebound but who also possesses an exceptionally quick release with accuracy, total precision..... the originator is actually a guy from your nick of the woods, the Maritimes..... and that would be one Gordon Arthur Drillon....

Phil Esposito, Dave Andreychuk, Dino Ciccarelli & others as mentioned following Gordie's model, something his Coach Hap Day in Toronto was none too pleased about however he gave him his head as he was essentially a scoring machine, putting them in at critical junctures so a Money Player.... the first of that kind. He only played 7 or 8 seasons in the NHL, all with Toronto but for his final year in Montreal, joining up in 43, and when he'd finished knife fighting Nazi's & his stint in the military... he Coached a team in Newfoundland. Thereafter, returned home to New Brunswick, got a job in the civil service and was also a Scout for the Leafs covering the Maritime Provinces for many a year, many a long howling winter.

Now.... I suspect your well aware of all of this Johnny... know all about Gordie Drillon.... and that you only asked me ( along with @Canadiens1958 ) so as to illicit some love for the Maritime's... as you probably feel at times "cut off"..... remote from the general population on "the Mainland" n' so on & so on. Ya, I'montayaBye..... My post little more than an advertorial for the fine people & players who've come from the East Coast... dont get enough love, respect.... Well, Gordie was Phil before Phil, Gordie was Dave before Dave, Gordie was Dino before Dino & plenty of others.... Amazing really, that he made it to the NHL from Moncton New Brunswick.... sandwiched as it were between some seriously pissed off French Canadians on one side & drunken Celtic fiddlers on the other uh?.... But Gordie, Gordies "the Man". He had "presence" in spades. The 1st.

Absolutely aware of Mr. Drillon and his prowess in the slot, Mr. Killion, but when it comes to the written account, it's not always clear how Drillon's particular brand of slot-patrol resembled or differed from that of Nels Stewart, or even a guy like Cy Dennenny, who does have some choice lines written about him that suggest that he knew how to bang in rebounds from in close. In the case of the modern role of a Van Riemsdyk or a Holmstrom where the forward's back is facing the net most of the time, as C58 and Mr. Farkas elaborated on, does run counter to the idea of the game being played in constant motion, so it wouldn't necessarily have a place in every version of the game that's ever been played.
Now, I'm of the general opinion that there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to ideas and strategy, and that it would be foolish to suggest that no one ever played that way before the 70s. But it's interesting that you've pinpoint Drillon over a guy like Stewart, and I'd love to hear a deeper description of his moves in tight as compared to Ol' Poison, Camille the Eel, and others.
Drillon coached the Faulkners in Grand Falls, which would have to place him among the founding fathers over here on the island, along with Howie Meeker here in the city.

 

[crobro]

Tim Kerr is most effective of all time followed by Espo

Simmer was money in the slot but gets no respect

Adam Creighton was also unmovable but would have been a game breaker if he had better hands

 

[Canadiens1958]

Absolutely aware of Mr. Drillon and his prowess in the slot, Mr. Killion, but when it comes to the written account, it's not always clear how Drillon's particular brand of slot-patrol resembled or differed from that of Nels Stewart, or even a guy like Cy Dennenny, who does have some choice lines written about him that suggest that he knew how to bang in rebounds from in close. In the case of the modern role of a Van Riemsdyk or a Holmstrom where the forward's back is facing the net most of the time, as C58 and Mr. Farkas elaborated on, does run counter to the idea of the game being played in constant motion, so it wouldn't necessarily have a place in every version of the game that's ever been played.
Now, I'm of the general opinion that there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to ideas and strategy, and that it would be foolish to suggest that no one ever played that way before the 70s. But it's interesting that you've pinpoint Drillon over a guy like Stewart, and I'd love to hear a deeper description of his moves in tight as compared to Ol' Poison, Camille the Eel, and others.
Drillon coached the Faulkners in Grand Falls, which would have to place him among the founding fathers over here on the island, along with Howie Meeker here in the city.

Pre forward pass era, could not deflect or re-direct since it would be considered a forward pass. Only goals from deflections I have come across from that era were own goals varieties.

Also at various times into the thirties goalies were entitled to an unimpeded view.

In degrees this would impact Dennenny and Stewart.

Drillon was probably the first trailing winger of the Forward Pass Era, having played that way from youth hockey onwards. Previous to the liberalization of the forward pass all wingers by default were trailing wingers.

Nothing new. True if we disregard rule changes and how players and strategies adapt. There are various back to the future aspects in modern hockey. Some succeed,others fail,mainly because of a poor foundation or a lack of attention to fundamentals.

 

[Howie Hodge]

Craig Simpson. Had near-elite talent (deking, shooting, tipping), but most of his goals were scored within six inches of the goal line. Wasn't a very big guy, and consequently career over at ２５.

6'2" and 195 lbs isn't small, but I agree, not huge either.

His back was shot by the time he came to Buffalo. My Realtor called me to tell me he was showing Craig houses around Buffalo, after he had been acquired from Edmonton.

I asked my Mike (my Realtor) if Craig was excited to be in Buffalo. All he said to me was, "Howie; he could barely get in and out of the car."

Not a good sign. Luckily we had given up little to acquire him.....

 

[Johnny Engine]

Nothing new. True if we disregard rule changes and how players and strategies adapt. There are various back to the future aspects in modern hockey. Some succeed,others fail,mainly because of a poor foundation or a lack of attention to fundamentals.

Absolutely, but that statement was meant in a broader philosophical sense - that ideas could come from other sports, or from informal play with no rules, but rarely if ever completely out of nowhere. I realize that's not the most productive observation to make in a discussion that's strictly about pro hockey, but the point is that there's always going to be something from deeper back in time to point to when your'e talking about the first of anything.

 

[BLNY]

Phil Esposito, Tim Kerr and Davey Andreychuk.

Tim Kerr gets so under valued by most. Criminal that his back failed him. From 1983 through 1987 you'd be hard pressed to find a better power forward. Four straight 50 goal season. 370 goals in 655 games. He was impossible to move.

 

[Killion]

Absolutely, but that statement was meant in a broader philosophical sense - that ideas could come from other sports, or from informal play with no rules, but rarely if ever completely out of nowhere. I realize that's not the most productive observation to make in a discussion that's strictly about pro hockey, but the point is that there's always going to be something from deeper back in time to point to when your'e talking about the first of anything.

Well, to paraphrase, Gordie said "I spent 10yrs ""playing in-the-slot"" before anyone invented a name for it"... He grew up playing in & around Moncton, indeed, all of his formative years spent there, eventually relocating to Toronto where he played Junior & after that, interned at the Minor Pro level. He was an outlier, played for a number of teams in & around Moncton & put up some decent numbers so I always figured thats where he was allowed to basically "loaf & park it" (Gordie wasnt a "digger", wasnt a tough guy or a fighter, won the Lady Byng one year I believe) . I can well imagine he likely saw a lot of ice time so he paced himself.

Another East Coaster, the Pride of Summerside PEI Errol Thompson, he was another odd ball outlier a bit like Gordie Drillon. In fact, it was Gordie who first spotted Thompson, he in turn passing his name on to Jack Ready, another Leafs Scout based in Halifax, and he in turn asked Johnny Bower to check him out; Bower impressed with Thompson who played both Wing & Defense, and who like Drillon back in the 20's & early 30's probably played the full 60 minutes of his Atom, Pee Wee, Bantam & Minor Midget games..... So unknown to Thompson, the Leafs did pick him in the Draft. Assigned to the minors, Coached by Marcel Pronovost who switched him to Winger full time and then when he made the Leafs, really started to put up some big numbers, afterwards with Pittsburgh & Detroit same. Oddly, despite having played Defense, Errol like Gordie had zero interest in playing a defensive game, digging, forechecking. This drove his Coach in Toronto Roger Neilson crazy so he was shipped out, traded.

... then if you also look at other Maritime players, like Rick Vaive & so on.... quite a number of players from the Maritimes, guys who were rather unusual players, certain proclivities & eccentricities, one dimensional or two dimensional, not completely "finished" and having adopted or even invented themselves certain styles of play, their approach to the game "different" to younger players in PQ, Ontario & Western Canada given the challenges of playing the game at the advanced levels in the Maritimes of the Teens, WW1, Twenties, Dirty Thirties, WW2 & into the 50's, 60's & 70's. Different breed of hockey player coming out of the Maritimes.

Drillon was no Nels Stewart, hanging in the slot up close & personnel like, spitting tobacco juice into the eye hole of a Defendee, Goalie or whomever... at a Ref or Linesman.... Fans.....Gordie was a Gentleman, also Happy-Go-Lucky who liked to have a good time away from the rink.... He fell into a scoring slump, fans getting on him, they always rode him from what I can understand of the situation back then.... anyway, Benched during the 42 Playoffs, Toronto roaring back from a 3 game deficit vs Detroit to win the Cup. Metz replacing Drillon who was sold to Montreal for $30,000 that summer.... put up some huge numbers, joined the Services & that was that for his NHL career... one that was actually pretty spectacular all things considered. As a Rookie he was coming in & replacing Conacher. The only Leaf to ever lead the League in goals.

I dont believe anyone who preceded Drillon played it the way he did so ya, I'll be sticking with that theory Johnny, "Gordon of Moncton invented the gentleman-slot-player-role".... Short innings for Gordie but shone real bright. Quite shocking really that Day Benched him, that he was shipped off. League leading goalscorer, All Star.... And yet, forgotten, overlooked, underrated. Honored Member of the HHOF.

 

[ted2019]

Tim Kerr gets so under valued by most. Criminal that his back failed him. From 1983 through 1987 you'd be hard pressed to find a better power forward. Four straight 50 goal season. 370 goals in 655 games. He was impossible to move.

Agree 1000% with this statement. Compare Kerr's stats with Cam Neely's and you will see that they are basically the same, yet Neely's in the hall while Kerr isn't.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Wayne Cashman seems a really strange choice.

2 more non-HHOFers not yet mentioned - Camille Henry and Tim Kerr

So cool to learn Tim Kerr was a "net front" presence. I remember hearing he was a fifty goal guy at least once! I don't know if it was in 85 or 87...but I want to say I heard he missed one of these finals with an injury (an obvious big loss for the Flyers).

 

[mja]

So cool to learn Tim Kerr was a "net front" presence. I remember hearing he was a fifty goal guy at least once! I don't know if it was in 85 or 87...but I want to say I heard he missed one of these finals with an injury (an obvious big loss for the Flyers).

He scored 50+ 4 straight times. This thread sent me to youtube for Kerr highlight videos, and I found this gem:



He actually talks about making his living playing in front of the net at 22:30 or so.

p.s. Flyers win the cup in 87 with a healthy Kerr.

p.p.s. Skip to 26:10 for awesome shirtless muscled Kerr running action.

 

[Mayor Bee]

[deleted]

 

[tony d]

How about Shanahan?

 

[FerrisRox]

Tim Kerr was absolutely outstanding in this regard.

In the two seasons he posted fifty goals for the Toronto Maple Leafs, Dave Andreychuk was exceptional in front of the net. He scored so many goals by screening, creating havoc and using his reach to haul in rebounds. Andreychuk scored goals often on shots that deflected in off of him and rarely got any that wouldn't be described as ugly, but man, they certainly piled up.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

not best of all time, but modern guys that make a living there are Simmons and Loui Eriksson

 

[NyQuil]

Dino and Tim Kerr sprung to mind.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Jim Lorentz, Pat Boutette and Peter McNab.

Esposito played higher out in the slot for the most part. Wouldn't really consider him a net front presence. Cashman was more likely to be planted on top of the goalie than Espo.

Kerr was the best at it.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Agree 1000% with this statement. Compare Kerr's stats with Cam Neely's and you will see that they are basically the same, yet Neely's in the hall while Kerr isn't.

Yes their numbers are close but Neely was much more physical; hitting, fighting, intimidation. Could score from distance as well as in close. Owned Patrick Roy.

Hall of Fame liked that 50 goals in 44 games. Also, Neely a four time 2nd team all-star, Kerr just once.

 

[Big Phil]

I wouldn't call him a "net presence" so much. He was around the net and such but not someone known to stand in front. More "lucky" than anything. This is why he got the nickname "Lucky Luc". Yes, Luc Robitaille. My friend once told me that a classic Robitaille goal is one where Robitaille comes out of nowhere and picks up a third rebound and pots the puck in the net with the goalie far out of position.

But anyway, big net presence players were Phil Esposito, Ciccarelli, Leclair, Smyth, Holmstrom, Andreychuk and while he wasn't overly physical I'll say Joe Nieuwendyk could tip a shot as good as anyone I ever saw.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Holmstrom & Ciccarelli for me.

In the crease...out of the crease...in the crease...out of the crease. (hooray for Knob Hockey)

 

[GMR]

I'm not sure if Franzen would be as successful today. He was right on top of the goaltenders half the time. Pretty strict calls against that now.

Franzen came in that period between the late-９０s' call-everything-back-for-having-a-toe-in-the-blue-paint and today's review-every-play-for-any-vague-hint-of-goalie-interference.

Are you talking about Holmstrom?

 

[The Panther]

Are you talking about Holmstrom?

Yes, I am! My mistake.

 

[crobro]

What about Charlie Simmer?