Greatest Defenceman of All Time #7

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by canucksfan, May 19, 2006.

  1. canucksfan

    canucksfan Registered User

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    Robinson won with 26 votes and King Clancy will be added next. I am going to vote for Red Kelly and add Dit Clapper.

    #1.Orr(89.26%)
    #2.Shore(37.00%)
    #3.Harvey(52.33%)
    #4.Bourque(54.84%)
    #5.Potvin(61.84%)
    #6.Robinson(31.71%)
     
  2. pickett04

    pickett04 Registered User

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    i went with Park no awards but great numbers but one of the best. he played in an era of Potvin, Robinison and some guy named Orr.
    i would add Al MacInnis one of the greatest shots of all time.
     
  3. Evil Speaker

    Evil Speaker Registered

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    Add Reijo Ruotsalainen
     
  4. TOPGUN

    TOPGUN I Am Terrible!

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    Voted Lidstrom

    Add Al MacInnis
     
  5. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

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    Kelly, add Earl siebert
     
  6. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    I like Larry Robinson as much as the next fan, but #6 was a little too early for him. At least five of the other choices deserved to be rated higher. JMO.

    Voted for Red Kelly. If Cyclone Taylor counts add him, if not then add MacInnis.
     
  7. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    Red Kelly Add the Great Caper Big Al MacInnis

    Possessed one of the most lethal slapshots the game had ever seen. Played with tremendous intelligence. Had good size at 6'2 210 and plus he had good hockey sense and which helped him utilized his offensive instincts.
    Al played in 10 straight all star games
    He mad the NHL's 2nd all star 3 times and 1st all star 4 times
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2006
  8. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Definitely Leonard "Red" Kelly. Won the first Norris Trophy. Would have likely won one or two more had the Norris been around in the early stages of his career. An all-star on the blue line for eight straight years, including five straight first team selections. Eight Stanley Cups.

    Add Earl Seibert. 10 straight selections to the NHL all-star team.
     
  9. Nifty=HHOF

    Nifty=HHOF Registered User

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    Red Kelly
     
  10. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    I think the switch to Center for the last 40% of his career hurts his placement on the all time list by a few notches.
     
  11. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    I disagree. He was still named to eight all-star teams before the switch to forward, he still beat Doug Harvey to win the first Norris Trophy, and he still won four Stanley Cups. Kelly should still be an undisputed No. 6 or 7.
     
  12. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    He should probably would be ahead of Robinson for 6th if he had played D for the last 6 or 7 seasons of his career. Or maybe not. He might be boosted by some because some layman fans think he was a D-Man when he put up his high scoring years later in his career.

    Incidentally does anyone remember how good he was as defensively as a centre for the Leafs? Was he far and away the best defensive forward in the league during his time in Toronto? Did he play centre unlike anyone else did at the time? Just curious. Was he the Bob Gainey of his era as a forward while still being a top level scorer?

    When I said he might drop a few notches for switching to centre I meant only 2 or 3 at most not alot at all.
     
  13. sparr0w

    sparr0w Registered User

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    Voted Lidstrom. Being active means he doesn't have the "back in the good ol' days" mystique yet, but he will. Three Norris trophies, three runner's up (and at least one more coming this season). Three Cups. A Conn Smythe. 4-5 time Byng runner-up. 6 straight 1st Team All Star selections and well on his way for 7 out of 8 seasons. Elite shut down defense and as an added bonus no defenseman has scored more points since he has stepped into the league. I'm also fairly certain that no skater has played more hockey since he has stepped into the league either, missing a grand total of 18 games (most healthy rests late in the season) regular season and has never missed a playoff game and logging a ton of minutes in those games. Scotty Bowman, I believe, called him the perfect player and that's good enough for me.

    /been voting for Nick since the 5th spot opened up.
     
  14. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    Kelly, add Pronger. See alot of people voting Coffey. Considering most of the names on the list were very good offensively, and could actually play defense I can't see how people could vote Coffey. It would be like calling Gainey a top 10 forward, because he played better defense than most defensman. One dimensional defensive forwards and one dimensional offensive d-men don't belong anywhere near a top 10 list at forward or defense.
     
  15. kovy1335

    kovy1335 Registered User

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    How many times are you going to say that?

    3 Norris trophies: '85, '86, '95

    4 Stanley Cups: '84, '85, '87, '91

    14x All Star selection.

    ...but he shouldn't be considered among the all-time greats?

    That Gainey isn't considered an all-time great forward means nothing. Maybe if Bob Gainey was the career +/- leader for forwards and not in the top-10 you might have some kind of argument.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2006
  16. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    As long as people keep on voting for Coffey over much better defenseman I'll keep on saying it. BTW I don't recall on making the Gainey analogy before, do you? Link?
     
  17. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    He was great in '95, but IMO Bourque and Howe were better in 85 and 86 and Robinson was better in '86. Voters were overly enamoured with his numbers.

    Not top 10.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2006
  18. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    I've always said that Coffey was average defensively. I rate him as the No. 2 offensive defenceman of all time (Orr, of course, is No. 1). His defensive play does hold him back somewhat, as I rate him No. 10, after Robinson, Kelly, Chelios and Fetisov. (The top five is almost a given, as witnessed in this survey). Coffey's not as bad defensively as some people make him out to be, but he's not Fetisov or Chelios defensively, either.

    One thing I will say about Coffey: his play in the lockout shortened season is as good as the hockey world has seen from a defenceman since Bobby Orr retired. Coffey scored at a 100-point clip (in a season in which scoring dipped below six goals per game), and was very sound defensively. Controlled the pace of the game whenever he was on the ice, in any zone. IMO, only Hasek meant more to his team's success that year.

    Kovy, those all-star selections, is that 14 times selected to the first or second all-star team, or to the all-star game. All-star game is irrelevant. The all-star game lost its relevance about 20 years ago, bogged down by apathetic performances, fan balloting and unworthy team representatives. But if that's 14 times to a first or second all-star team, then that's a pretty big argument.
     
  19. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    1986 was the year in which he came within one point of matching Bobby Orr's single-season point total. Coffey also set a new league record for goals in a season by a defenceman. There's no way he wasn't going to win that Norris Trophy.
     
  20. sparr0w

    sparr0w Registered User

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    4 time 1st '85, '86, '89, '95
    4 time 2nd '82, '83, '84, '90
    14 games
     
  21. kovy1335

    kovy1335 Registered User

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    You said it right above my post, but here, I quoted it for you.

    edit* sorry, I misunderstood you, but i was actually referencing your argument about coffey being bad on defense and therefore not a top-10. Not your argument about gainey.
     
  22. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    I meant in a thread other than this one wise guy.
     
  23. kovy1335

    kovy1335 Registered User

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    I didn't mean the analogy, I meant that he shouldn't be considered a top-10 because "he's not great defensively"
     
  24. sparr0w

    sparr0w Registered User

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    I can't think of a better reason to leave a defenseman off the top-10 defensemen of all time lists. Can you?
     
  25. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    He was also on the best offensive team of all-time inflating his numbers. If Bourque had been on that team that season, I have no doubt he would have been in the same ballpark, and also provided much better defense. Put Coffey on the Habs and he likely doesn't get much more than the 85 pts Robinson did on the 86 Habs team. Howe was +80 that season and was IMO robbed of the Norris because he didn't get to play pond hockey like Coffey did.
     

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