Greates passer of all time (minus #99)

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Big Phil, Apr 15, 2006.

  1. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Messages:
    26,992
    Likes Received:
    275
    Trophy Points:
    154
    I think most people will admit that Gretzky is the best passer of all time bar none. But who is second in your opinion? My pick: Adam Oates.

    Oates had a career high of 97 assists in a season and also 90 one other year when he played only 61 games. He also was the centre of two players who hit 50/50 (Hull and Neely). That says something. He led the league in assists three times in his career. Even in the twilight of his career you knew Oates would put up 60 assists. But I cant think of anyone who could thread a pass as good as he could. He had some of the sweetest hands of all time. I'll put Oates just barely ahead of Lemieux.
     
  2. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    If you mean greatest passers by how aesthetically pleasing their passes were, not too sure who #2 would be. But, if you want the greatest playmakers Ogopogo style:

    1 Wayne Gretzky
    2 Gordie Howe
    3 Adam Oates
    4 Frank Boucher
    5 Mario Lemieux
    6 Andy Bathgate
    7 Phil Esposito
    8 Stan Mikita
    9 Bobby Orr
    10 Bill Cowley
    11 Jean Beliveau
    12 Ted Lindsay
    Elmer Lach
    14 Paul Coffey
    15 Jaromir Jagr
    16 Marcel Dionne
    17 Bryan Trottier
    Guy Lafleur
    19 Bobby Clarke
    20 Cy Denneny
    21 Ron Francis
    22 Alex Delvecchio
    23 Howie Morenz
    24 Peter Forsberg
    25 Peter Stastny
    Art Chapman
    27 Max Bentley
    Doug Bentley
    Joe Sakic
    30 Sid Abel
     
  3. Adam Oates was one of the best pure playmakers ever.
     
  4. Biggsy

    Biggsy Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,469
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Rutland/Kelowna
    Yeah Oatsy forsure
     
  5. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    23,349
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Forensic Accountant
    Location:
    Cesspool, Ontario
    Home Page:
    If I'm a goalscoring winger and Gretzky isn't available, and with appologies to Oates, I want Mario Lemieux as my center.
     
  6. Puckclektr

    Puckclektr Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3,455
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    GTA
    Oates for sure. Underated passer in Craig Janney.
     
  7. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    Mass/formerly Ont
    Kinda presumptuous to say Gretzy is the best passer of all time. The guy is not GOD. You could certainly make a good argument for his contemporary-Lemieux. There are old time players such as Bill Cowley & Andy Bathgate who are also up there. Of Gretzy/Lemieux contemporarys Oates is definitely close. Of todays players Joe Thornton is up there, 94 assists at this point.
     
  8. Murphy

    Murphy Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Hey Ogopogo,

    I don't remember Phil Esposito to be much of a set up, playmaker type let alone top 7. I could be wrong as I didn't really see him all that much but I did pay attention to him somewhat as he was my moms favourite player at the time.

    We used to bug her about "garbage goal Esposito" and my recollection of him was him in the slot or more times than not right on top of the crease. I don't remember him as much of a passer at all. I could be totally out to lunch on this of course but when I think of Esposito I don't think of playmaker.
     
  9. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Espo led the league in assists 3 times and finished second 4 times. Purty darn good for a 'garbage goal' scorer. ;)
     
  10. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    I disagree.

    You couldn't make a good argument for anyone. Gretzky dominated the assist chart like nobody else in league history and it isn't close.

    In fact, on my system, if you add #2 Howe and #3 Oates together, combined they just barely finish ahead of Gretzky. He was that great.
     
  11. Murphy

    Murphy Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,104
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Top two in assists for 7 years certainly explains it.....
     
  12. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    Mass/formerly Ont
    Maybe,but I know your ratings are based purely on stats and on dominance in certain years. Howevere, we know assists were handed out more freely in certain periods & in certain arenas. I think Boston was a good place to play in the late 60's & early 70's if you wanted to pad your assist totals. I remember Esposito very well. He had the great fortune to play with 2 of the greatest players in NHL history=Bobby Hull & Bobby Orr. I too remember him as a garbage goal guy. Orr carried the puck, Cashman & hodge dug it out of the corners and Esposito scored from the slot. To give him ctrdit he was the greatest garbage goal scorer ever and he took limited talent to high levels.
     
  13. MojoJojo

    MojoJojo Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Messages:
    9,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Home Page:

    Not that there arent some amazing playmakers on the list but :amazed:
     
  14. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    Mass/formerly Ont
    Again, it is all about career numbers with you. Gretzy was great but the 80's was an aberration and the stats of the decade were abnormally high to what happened before and since.Lets put things in perspective. Average players like Rick Vaive, rick Kehoe, al Secord & Jacques Richard were scoring over 50 goals.average players like Federko, Broten, Anderson, carson, & Bullard were scoring over 100 points. Granted gretzy dominated until Lemieux became a force in the latter part of the decade but the Oilers system was 100% geared to Gretzy. Your ratings would probably make more sense if you devalued all stats from the 80's. It is beyond imagination as to the stats Howe, Orr, & Hull would have put up if the were in their prime in the 80's.
     
  15. raleh

    raleh Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Dartmouth, NS
    Rocket and Hull would have been 100 goal a season scorers in the '80's. Elmer Lach would have had a few seasons of over 110 assists too.
     
  16. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Injuries...
     
  17. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    I did devalue all stats from teh 80s. My system evens out all eras and Gretzky still comes out on top. That is how great he was. Sorry but that is the truth.
     
  18. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    Mass/formerly Ont
    No need to be sorry but I do have a problem with your definition of truth. I can only comment on the era that I have seen which covers the mid 50's to the present. If I plop Gretzy into the late 50'-early 60's I see a Mikita type player without the toughness.

    You may have a "system" but it is not necessarily the "Truth". A great effort but not the "Truth". Gretzy may have been great but is not necessarily the greatest.
     
  19. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Newspaper reporter
    Location:
    Bentley reunion
    Gretzky is No. 1. I don't care the era, he dominates. Nobody has ever seen or thought the game the way that Gretzky did. That's why he was so dangerous. So many of his goals came from seeing the gaps that nobody else could. Mentally, he's as strong as any player ever.

    I'm not a Janney fan, but he's very underrated for his playmaking abilities. One of the reasons that the 1980s/early 1990s were so high scoring was the abundance of great playmaking centres. Janney was considered one of the top five playmakers in the game from about 1990 to 1994. (It helps when you play with the likes of Neely, Hull and Shanahan, but Janney was a wizard.

    I think Jean Beliveau has to be considered. Adam Oates is right up there. Some of the other 1980s stars - Hawerchuk, Savard, LaFontaine, Stastny, Francis and of course Lemieux - are right up there. Bobby Clarke won three Hart Trophies partially due to his playmaking wizardry. Stan Mikita was among the all-time leader in assists when he retired.
     
  20. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Any reasonable method of comparison says that Gretzky is the greatest.

    Gretzky led the NHL outright in assists 13 times and he tied for the lead on 3 other occasions. 5 of Gretzky's assist titles were by more than 25%, 2 were by more than 50% and one was by more than 75%. Nobody in any era can boast such dominance of the assist leaderboard. There really is no comparison. Throw out the raw numbers, these percentages cannot be touched by anyone in any era.
     
  21. Bluesfan1981

    Bluesfan1981 Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    You left out Joe Primeau and Doug Harvey
     
  22. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Primeau is #31 and Harvey is #63
     
  23. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    30,939
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    171
    Occupation:
    EI Baby
    Location:
    BWO Headquarters
    Home Page:
    add tomas kaberles name to your list in 3 yrs time
     
  24. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Newspaper reporter
    Location:
    Bentley reunion
    Forgot to mention the defencemen. Bobby Orr, of course, would be tops. Only defenceman to have over 100 assists in a season. Guys like Coffey and Bourque, among the 80s defencemen, were fantastic. Lidstrom is brilliant as a playmaking defenceman. Eddie Shore and Doug Harvey were brilliant. Larry Robinson was one of the first defencemen to combine size and high-end offensive skills.

    Phil Housley was another great playmaking blue-liner, it's just his legacy is tarnished by his shoddy defensive play. Housley makes Paul Coffey look like Rod Langwy.
     
  25. KariyaIsGod*

    KariyaIsGod* Guest

    No, you can't make a good argument for anyone but Gretzky.

    He is the greatest passer of all-time...
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"