Gonchar on Crosby

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by pei fan, Feb 23, 2006.

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  1. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    From Roy MacGregor's column in the Globe and mail today he quotes gonchar commenting on Crosby:

    The second-guessing began before the players even reached the dressing room.The Russian players that is.Sergei Gonchar the superb Russian defenceman, was asked about his teammate Sidney Crosby,the 18 year old rookie sensation who was mysteriously left off Team Canada.

    Mr. Gonchar smiled,showing what teeth he still has :D .The big ice surface,he said would have been an advantage for Mr. Crosby.

    Seems like Gonchar and probably all Russia were happy with Canada's player selections.
     
  2. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    I would hope he thought his teammate should have been there.



    Fact of the matter is that Crosby shouldn't have anyways.
     
  3. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    Hehe.
    Low... But IMO; correct. ;)
     
  4. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    Well there's several reasons why he should have been besides his playmaking ability on the large ice surface.For one Crosby owns Ovechkin in head to head action.That should have been reason enough alone so now we're up to 2 reasons .Let me add some more.
    He's the most talented/skilled Canadian player(but granted doesn't have the experience of others).

    He is the most agessive hard working player Canada has. He leaves nothing on the ice but blood ,sweat ,and tears.( I was astonished at how accepting the Canadians seemed to be of losing).

    He has a record in big tournaments(2 wjc's,President's trophy and Memorial Cup of being VERY disciplined.(not like in the situation in Pittsburgh where most of the games are meaningless by the time he shows frustation).

    He wouldn't be frustrated having linemates to pass too.He is better than his stats show this year.

    There is no question in my mind Stall,Spezza and Crosby should have been there.
     
  5. octopi

    octopi Registered User

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    I've said it in another thread I'll say it here:

    Does noone remember how many thought Pittsburgh would contend for the Cup because of all their talent in September?

    Have the Penguins ever lost 3 of 4 games, and Crosby been held pointless in those losses?

    C;'mon people. Heatley, Iginla, Sakic, Thornton were on that team.
     
  6. kingsfan25

    kingsfan25 Registered User

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    Adding one player wouldn't have made the difference...if you're arguing that route, you have to replace 4 or 5 players before advocating that it would have made a difference.
     
  7. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    Did Ovechkin make a difference?
     
  8. Bobby Orr's Knees

    Bobby Orr's Knees Registered User

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    What do you expect Gonchar to say? :dunno:
     
  9. Kevin Forbes

    Kevin Forbes Registered User

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    My thoughts are that Team Canada was missing defense, speed, shooting (instead of always looking for the pass) and consistent checking.
    Out of that list, Crosby would have added speed and some youthful energy. He doesn't play defense and he can't be counted on to play the body. When guys like Nash and Iginla and Heatley are doing the cutesy little drop passes instead of firing on net, I can't imagine Sid the Kid would be the selfish one to take a shot instead. I don't think passing the puck was a problem for this team. In fact, it was such an attribute that they did it to a fault.
    He would have had to be on the wing, both due to the fact that he wouldn't fit on a checking line and the fact that his faceoffs numbers aren't as good as Sakic/Richards/Lecavalier.
    Quite frankly, I don't think including Crosby would have affected the team much.
     
  10. kingsfan25

    kingsfan25 Registered User

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    You're not going to like this, based on your name, but Crosby is no Ovechkin...at least not yet.

    Plus, the inclusion of Ovechkin on Team Russia was in combination with the inclusion of other fairly young players, some would say "unproven" players, from what I hear.
     
  11. Goldark

    Goldark Registered User

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    Why do you keep on repeating the "head-to-head" thing as if it's some accepted fact? In a TEAM game, offensive head-to-head is irrelevant. Are you implying that if Crosby played the Caps without AO in the lineup, he would have produced less?

    How many players on that team Canada have done well "head-to-head" against AO and the Caps? Considering Washington is a bad team, I would guess quite a few, so no, we're not up to 2 reasons.

    Having said that, I absolutely think Crosby should have been on the team. But him alone would not have made the difference.
     
  12. RTWAP*

    RTWAP* Guest

    That's untrue. If you remove Bert there's a lot better chance of the Russians not scoring that first goal. If you add Crosby then there's a not insignificant chance that Canada scores a goal.

    It is true that switching those two would not have guaranteed a win, but nothing is guaranteed. It can definitely be argued that Canada would have a better chance with Sid.
     
  13. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    Unless he scored/assisted. Or would that not have made a difference in your opinion?
     
  14. Bobby Orr's Knees

    Bobby Orr's Knees Registered User

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    You realize that Russia has a bunch of players that aren't even NHL caliber? I don't think they could care less about team Canada player selections; they just went on the ice and played their guts out.
     
  15. Hemsky4PM

    Hemsky4PM Registered User

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    One player wouldn't have made a difference, but several would have.

    IN: Spezza, Staal, Crosby, Kariya, Shanahan, Phaneuf, Boyle

    OUT: Lecavalier, St. Louis, Nash, Bertuzzi, Draper, Foote, Regehr

    *these two sets of players have similar levels of international experience, in fact, the first group probably has more.

    That's the thing. I don't agree with Bob MacKenzie that you leave the players that were there off the hook by questioning the selections. To the contrary, they chose great players that were having bad seasons or that don't have skill sets that translate well to international ice.
     
  16. Takeo

    Takeo Registered User

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    I doubt Crysob would have made much of a difference. He'll have his turn in Vancouver, along with Staal, Spezza, Phaneuf, etc.
     
  17. ACC1224

    ACC1224 Registered User

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    he definately did....as a goal scorer no one in the World can rival Ovechkin right now, IMO.
     
  18. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    Well, what i thought was interesting and telling was the "big smile" as if to say yeah we are happy with that decision.
     
  19. Goldark

    Goldark Registered User

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    Shoulda, coulda, woulda. We can argue hypotheticals all day.

    Canada was oozing with talent, with or without Crosby. The problem was that they weren't playing as a team, and in my opinion, Crosby wouldn't have made a difference in that regard.
     
  20. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    They were not oozing with their best available talent.Some of those players must be hurt or they just don'y have it anymore.7 of Canada's top ten point scorers in the NHL were left off the team.That is just absurd.

    Also, on a team with so many guys struggling with their game it makes it that much harder when they were put under pressure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2006
  21. KariyaIsGod*

    KariyaIsGod* Guest

    I'm going to have to disagree.

    Crosby, Staal and Spezza would have made a huge difference. The team was totally indifferent to losing, those 3 guys wouldn't have been. Plus, Crosby isn't afraid to let his veteran teammates have it and that's what these guys needed because the effort simply wasn't there.

    And let's be fair, the difference wasn't Ovechkin, it was Kozlov. The man played the game of his life.
     
  22. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    Crosby should not have because despite Thornton playing like crap, he has been one of the best players in the league this season. Going down the middle, if you went with Lecavalier, Sakic, Staal, Thornton and Spezza, you can't go wrong with that. As good as all 5 of them were playing going into the break, that would have been.

    Crosby might own Ovechkin in head to head action, but who cares? That's the NHL. An NHL where Ovechkin is the only legtimate scoring threat on the team. Team Russia had 3 #1 lines to throw out there and the line with Malkin on it was also spactacular. The Olympics are not the NHL, and as we have seen teams with player who aren't even in the NHL have played rather large roles on their respective teams.


    The WJC's and Memorial Cup are not the Olympics. To go on top of that, Pat Quinn would have stuck Crosby on the 4th line anyways, and if you think he has been disciplined this season...wrong answer
     
  23. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    Good post,especially the part about the team being indifferent to losing.That just blows me away.Do you remember how devastated everyone was when we lost in the shootout to the Czechks in 98?
     
  24. Goldark

    Goldark Registered User

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    If we're changing the entire makeup of the team by adding Crosby, Staal, Spezza, Kariya, Shanahan, etc, then it would be a different team. Crosby alone wouldn't have made the difference.

    Both Kozlov and Ovechkin were difference-makers. It is a team game after all, and more than one player can (and needs) to make a difference for that team to be successful.
     
  25. Hemsky4PM

    Hemsky4PM Registered User

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    You make a pretty bad argument for not having Crosby on the team. Personally I have a hard time blaming bad skating forwards for not being faster. It's just not who they are. You can be great in the NHL and struggle on the big ice and visa versa. At least Crosby, Kariya and Staal have break out speed. The clubs management picked the guys they wanted. I don't by the "they'll have their shot" argument. If they're good enough now they should have been there. They messed up. It's a credit to Martin Brodeur that Canada was even in some of the games.
     
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