Go ahead and roast me.

[63firebird]

Also, what are 11-20-9 koolaid delusionals?

It started with the mass cult suicides years ago where a bunch of cult followers drank this poison koolaid.

So I’m comparing that cult stupidity with anyone that thinks 11-20-9 are capable of anything other than first round beat downs.
There seems to be a belief that 9 is a good captain.
Excellent defensive forward? Perhaps.
Captain with leadership in the NHL? I don’t think so.
Sooner he’s down to the third line and let some younger players develop,the bettter. Koivu has had his chance.
Parise and Suter with less minutes is workable.

 

[Bazeek]

It started with the mass cult suicides years ago where a bunch of cult followers drank this poison koolaid.

So I’m comparing that cult stupidity with anyone that thinks 11-20-9 are capable of anything other than first round beat downs.
There seems to be a belief that 9 is a good captain.
Excellent defensive forward? Perhaps.
Captain with leadership in the NHL? I don’t think so.
Sooner he’s down to the third line and let some younger players develop,the bettter. Koivu has had his chance.
Parise and Suter with less minutes is workable.

I think there's less of a belief that Koivu is a good captain and more of an acknowledgement that no one outside of the locker room is really in a position to assess that. As such, it seems weird to see so many fans get hung up on it. That's how it looks to me, anyway.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It started with the mass cult suicides years ago where a bunch of cult followers drank this poison koolaid.

So I’m comparing that cult stupidity with anyone that thinks 11-20-9 are capable of anything other than first round beat downs.
There seems to be a belief that 9 is a good captain.
Excellent defensive forward? Perhaps.
Captain with leadership in the NHL? I don’t think so.
Sooner he’s down to the third line and let some younger players develop,the bettter. Koivu has had his chance.
Parise and Suter with less minutes is workable.

Are you talking about from this day forward?

Perhaps an excellent defensive forward? I'd say the Selke nomination makes it more than a "perhaps".

I'm actually ok with this. Give Ek a shot with some offensive players.

 

[Wabit]

It started with the mass cult suicides years ago where a bunch of cult followers drank this poison koolaid.

The Jonestown Massacre was somewhat more than just a mass suicide, but this probably isn't the place for a gruesome history lesson.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

It started with the mass cult suicides years ago where a bunch of cult followers drank this poison koolaid.

So I’m comparing that cult stupidity with anyone that thinks 11-20-9 are capable of anything other than first round beat downs.
There seems to be a belief that 9 is a good captain.
Excellent defensive forward? Perhaps.
Captain with leadership in the NHL? I don’t think so.
Sooner he’s down to the third line and let some younger players develop,the bettter. Koivu has had his chance.
Parise and Suter with less minutes is workable.

Koivu playing less minutes next season and JEE more is part of a strategy. It's what smart teams do and it's why teams like Detroit have faltered when they have replacement for guys like Lidstrom. The wisdom of that pick will be apparent soon. This stuff about the captaincy ... it's not just you, but it has to be some of the dumbest narrative I've ever seen in the hockey sphere.

We'll see what this team is missing if Suter can't go, and Parise sustains another off-season setback. It won't be pretty because .... they're excellent hockey players.

And they drank Flavor Aid, not Kool Aid.

 

[Wabit]

Koivu playing less minutes next season and JEE more is part of a strategy. It's what smart teams do and it's why teams like Detroit have faltered when they have replacement for guys like Lidstrom. The wisdom of that pick will be apparent soon. This stuff about the captaincy ... it's not just you, but it has to be some of the dumbest narrative I've ever seen in the hockey sphere.

I guess a great Captain is more of a "know it when you see it" type of thing going on, those guys tend to just have an aura about them. Koivu doesn't have that, but nobody else on the Wild (or at least half the other NHL teams) does either. Bobby Clarke is my favorite Captain of all time, that entire Philly team would have done anything for him.

Koivu's average ToI (18:29) last year was by far his lowest in the last decade.

I don't see JEE taking a whole lot of ToI from Koivu next year.
-Koivu will still be on the 1st PK unit, and rightfully so.
-JEE hasn't shown the offense to take any PP time away from Koivu.
-So that only leaves even strength (I don't have 5v5 stats infront of me, so just using even strength) ToI. Koivu was below 14 mins last year, and JEE was at 11:35. JEE just getting a full years of 3rd line time should bump his time up to around ~12:30.

The best way to lower Koivu's ToI is to lessen his 2:29 PP ToI/game. Maybe a little can be shaved off his 2:02 PK ToI, but he is the best defensive FWD on the team, so it wouldn't be a huge drop off. Lessen/eliminate his 3v3 OT time is another way to shave a little time (I have no clue of how many OT mins he played this year).

 

[Al Lagoon]

Can't say I disagree with the spirit of the original rant. Game-breakers is not the Wild. Safe mediocrity is. Perhaps CF's replacement can remedy the situation.

 

[SupremeNachos]

I think I've blocked half the new users in the past year because of posts like these.

 

[63firebird]

Koivu playing less minutes next season and JEE more is part of a strategy. It's what smart teams do and it's why teams like Detroit have faltered when they have replacement for guys like Lidstrom. The wisdom of that pick will be apparent soon. This stuff about the captaincy ... it's not just you, but it has to be some of the dumbest narrative I've ever seen in the hockey sphere.

We'll see what this team is missing if Suter can't go, and Parise sustains another off-season setback. It won't be pretty because .... they're excellent hockey players.

And they drank Flavor Aid, not Kool Aid.

Exactly! Some fresh eyes. I want to see where this tesm will go without 11-20. Let’s see what depth is there. Let’s see what Fletcher built trading away a first or second round pick for Hanzal.
Perhaps they can evaluate what they have and make some realistic decisions moving forward.

Or maybe just a few tweaks because that’s all the Wild need to be a cup contender?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Exactly! Some fresh eyes. I want to see where this tesm will go without 11-20. Let’s see what depth is there. Let’s see what Fletcher built trading away a first or second round pick for Hanzal.
Perhaps they can evaluate what they have and make some realistic decisions moving forward.

Or maybe just a few tweaks because that’s all the Wild need to be a cup contender?

Didn’t we just sort of see that?

 

[63firebird]

Didn’t we just sort of see that?

Exactly. Out first round with 11-20 playing every year.
Complete joke without 11-20.
So.
Is the team closer to a rebuild or few tweaks?
I think you need more than 2 players to make a deep run. Especially when they are mid 30s.

I realize the Wild was nowhere when they first signed here. That doesn’t matter moving forward.

If this embarrassing playoff beat down doesn’t tell every fan and member of the Wild organization that major changes in direction are needed, I don’t know what will.

 

[Wabit]

Exactly. Out first round with 11-20 playing every year.
Complete joke without 11-20.
So.
Is the team closer to a rebuild or few tweaks?
I think you need more than 2 players to make a deep run. Especially when they are mid 30s.

I realize the Wild was nowhere when they first signed here. That doesn’t matter moving forward.

If this embarrassing playoff beat down doesn’t tell every fan and member of the Wild organization that major changes in direction are needed, I don’t know what will.

The Wild have built their team to try and beat the Hawks. Now the Jets come along and are the polar opposite of the Hawks teams that were winning Cups.

The Wild have gotten bigger, but are still the least physical team in the league. They don't have the ability (as a whole) to play a heavier game. or even withstand a team that does without wilting.

Suter and Parise being healthy wouldn't have made a difference in the result of the series. The Jets are just a better team, and an awful match up for MN.

I don't think the Wild need to blow everything up just yet, but they do need to part ways with some of the fan favorites. Then get a couple of skilled guys that can punish opposing players when the game calls for it. I'm not saying trade for 6 Steve Ott's but look for a Wayne Simmonds and Adam Larsson (type of players, not necessarily them in particular) to round out the lineup a little better.

 

[63firebird]

The Wild have built their team to try and beat the Hawks. Now the Jets come along and are the polar opposite of the Hawks teams that were winning Cups.

The Wild have gotten bigger, but are still the least physical team in the league. They don't have the ability (as a whole) to play a heavier game. or even withstand a team that does without wilting.

Suter and Parise being healthy wouldn't have made a difference in the result of the series. The Jets are just a better team, and an awful match up for MN.

I don't think the Wild need to blow everything up just yet, but they do need to part ways with some of the fan favorites. Then get a couple of skilled guys that can punish opposing players when the game calls for it. I'm not saying trade for 6 Steve Ott's but look for a Wayne Simmonds and Adam Larsson (type of players, not necessarily them in particular) to round out the lineup a little better.

Zero team toughness starting with 9 and 20 and working through the whole lineup.
Do you see how Forsberg and Arvidsson go to dirty areas fearlessly?
Because they have grit. And speed and skill. Not meathead penalty idiot enforcers. Team toughness which Wild has ZERO. especially 9 and 20 the “leaders”.

 

[Wabit]

Zero team toughness starting with 9 and 20 and working through the whole lineup.
Do you see how Forsberg and Arvidsson go to dirty areas fearlessly?
Because they have grit. And speed and skill. Not meathead penalty idiot enforcers. Team toughness which Wild has ZERO. especially 9 and 20 the “leaders”.

Saying Parise is lacking toughness is a new one. He's lived in the dirty areas his entire career. An elite grinder has been a very common description throughout his career. He's never been a bit hitter, but he's willing to take a beating for scoring chances.

I agree about the lack of overall team toughness. Too many players on the team get hit and wilt, and avoid playing the body of opposing players at all costs.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Saying Parise is lacking toughness is a new one. He's lived in the dirty areas his entire career. An elite grinder has been a very common description throughout his career. He's never been a bit hitter, but he's willing to take a beating for scoring chances.

I agree about the lack of overall team toughness. Too many players on the team get hit and wilt, and avoid playing the body of opposing players at all costs.

I can't think of many. Suter doesn't hit a lot because he plays positional hockey, as do Brodin and Spurgeon. Coyle fits the bill I suppose, as a guy who neither possesses that well nor makes a team pay for their puck skills but he was 6th overall on the team in this category.

The distance between JEE (3rd) and the next guy on the Wild (Zucker, who was 4th) in hits was more than the total hits credited to Mikko Koivu. (Kind of garbage stat, in my opinion, but a tidbit.)

 

[Wabit]

I can't think of many. Suter doesn't hit a lot because he plays positional hockey, as do Brodin and Spurgeon. Coyle fits the bill I suppose, as a guy who neither possesses that well nor makes a team pay for their puck skills but he was 6th overall on the team in this category.

The distance between JEE (3rd) and the next guy on the Wild (Zucker, who was 4th) in hits was more than the total hits credited to Mikko Koivu. (Kind of garbage stat, in my opinion, but a tidbit.)

I don't think hits are that much of a garbage stat, they are badly recorded for sure. Just to expand a little on the Koivu hits thing: Koivu was 10th (tied with Ennis) on the team with 51.

The Wild have been in the bottom 2 teams (along with the Blackhawks) in the league in hits since the 13-14 season. They don't have near the top-end talent CHI had in those years, so they can't just outskill everyone and call it a day. As a whole the team doesn't know how to play and sustain a physical game for a full game, let alone a 7 game series.

I would like to see the Wild add a heavy hitter on the defense. Zanon is the last one I can remember, but Clutterbuck blew everyone on those Wild teams away. Dumba has a physical edge, but he's not going to make too many guys look over their shoulders.

 

[63firebird]

Saying Parise is lacking toughness is a new one. He's lived in the dirty areas his entire career. An elite grinder has been a very common description throughout his career. He's never been a bit hitter, but he's willing to take a beating for scoring chances.

I agree about the lack of overall team toughness. Too many players on the team get hit and wilt, and avoid playing the body of opposing players at all costs.

Of course Parise has been a grinder forever. I meant the rest of the soft team. Especially 9-20.

 

[63firebird]

I can't think of many. Suter doesn't hit a lot because he plays positional hockey, as do Brodin and Spurgeon. Coyle fits the bill I suppose, as a guy who neither possesses that well nor makes a team pay for their puck skills but he was 6th overall on the team in this category.

The distance between JEE (3rd) and the next guy on the Wild (Zucker, who was 4th) in hits was more than the total hits credited to Mikko Koivu. (Kind of garbage stat, in my opinion, but a tidbit.)

Suter, Brodin and Spurgeon play positional hockey?
Ok.
Right.
That’ll get a Stanley cup.
Sure.
Positional hockey.

 

[63firebird]

Saying Parise is lacking toughness is a new one. He's lived in the dirty areas his entire career. An elite grinder has been a very common description throughout his career. He's never been a bit hitter, but he's willing to take a beating for scoring chances.

I agree about the lack of overall team toughness. Too many players on the team get hit and wilt, and avoid playing the body of opposing players at all costs.

Yes. Parise is excellent. Like Forsberg and Arvidsson, not big but not afraid to go to the dirty areas. My apologies. I shouldn’t paint the whole team as pansies. Let’s just say 20-9-3- to start.
Wait. Brodin , Spurgeon and Suter play “ positional “ hockey. Wtf is that? That’s to say Burns, Buf,Josi don’t play “positional “ hockey using leverage?

 

[63firebird]

I don't think hits are that much of a garbage stat, they are badly recorded for sure. Just to expand a little on the Koivu hits thing: Koivu was 10th (tied with Ennis) on the team with 51.

The Wild have been in the bottom 2 teams (along with the Blackhawks) in the league in hits since the 13-14 season. They don't have near the top-end talent CHI had in those years, so they can't just outskill everyone and call it a day. As a whole the team doesn't know how to play and sustain a physical game for a full game, let alone a 7 game series.

I would like to see the Wild add a heavy hitter on the defense. Zanon is the last one I can remember, but Clutterbuck blew everyone on those Wild teams away. Dumba has a physical edge, but he's not going to make too many guys look over their shoulders.

Captain Koivu tied with Ennis for hits. If that doesn’t say it all right there.

 

[Wabit]

Yes. Parise is excellent. Like Forsberg and Arvidsson, not big but not afraid to go to the dirty areas. My apologies. I shouldn’t paint the whole team as pansies. Let’s just say 20-9-3- to start.
Wait. Brodin , Spurgeon and Suter play “ positional “ hockey. Wtf is that? That’s to say Burns, Buf,Josi don’t play “positional “ hockey using leverage?

Josi and Burns are positional players that rely more on blocking shots than playing physical against people. They are about the equivalent of Suter.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I've said for the last couple of years that the Wild need to get tougher.
-Add a Larrson or Risto in place of Spurgeon; or a Nurse or OEL in place of Brodin. Also add a Schenn on the bottom pair.
-Get a Simmonds or E. Kane or Landeskog for the top-6, remind Nino it's okay to hit people, find a Bennett, Lazar, or Clutterbuck to put in the bottom-6 in place of Coyle and Ennis.
-Get Koivu angry before every game.

The normal response is going to be something like "Fill a team with Lucic's and Gudas' and see what that get's you". You don't need a team full of heavy hitters, but there has to be a few.

 

[Bazeek]

Josi and Burns are positional players that rely more on blocking shots than playing physical against people. They are about the equivalent of Suter.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I've said for the last couple of years that the Wild need to get tougher.
-Add a Larrson or Risto in place of Spurgeon; or a Nurse or OEL in place of Brodin. Also add a Schenn on the bottom pair.
-Get a Simmonds or E. Kane or Landeskog for the top-6, remind Nino it's okay to hit people, find a Bennett, Lazar, or Clutterbuck to put in the bottom-6 in place of Coyle and Ennis.
-Get Koivu angry before every game.

The normal response is going to be something like "Fill a team with Lucic's and Gudas' and see what that get's you". You don't need a team full of heavy hitters, but there has to be a few.

I don't object to the team getting tougher, but the team's lack of toughness bothers me less than it's lack of scoring ability and high-end skill. If we can add grit without overspending on it, great. It's when you start paying $6mx7 for Lucic, or $3.5mx5 for Clutterbuck, or $2.875x4 for Foligno that I start to grind my molars.

In my mind it's just lower on the priority list than players who can score.

Edit: I'll add that physical play isn't what lost us the series against Winnipeg. Yes, Byfuglien blew up Eriksson-Ek and has generally been quite a force, but Koivu (sorry, "9") had that big hit on Perreault and Foligno apparently got away with borderline homicide on Myers. From what I saw, what actually buried us was a.) how bad we were at fighting for the space in front of the net, and b.) the overall talent and speed disparity between the teams. And while I don't blame Dubnyk for the loss, I guess c.) would be that Hellebuyck was just plain better.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to fall into the trap of spending each offseason engineering a team that will beat whoever knocked us out of the playoffs most recently. But watching the 2nd round games this year, especially the Western conference ones, I don't think that physicality is what will hold us back.

 

[nickschultzfan]

The Wild have built their team to try and beat the Hawks. Now the Jets come along and are the polar opposite of the Hawks teams that were winning Cups.

The Wild have gotten bigger, but are still the least physical team in the league. They don't have the ability (as a whole) to play a heavier game. or even withstand a team that does without wilting.

Suter and Parise being healthy wouldn't have made a difference in the result of the series. The Jets are just a better team, and an awful match up for MN.

I don't think the Wild need to blow everything up just yet, but they do need to part ways with some of the fan favorites. Then get a couple of skilled guys that can punish opposing players when the game calls for it. I'm not saying trade for 6 Steve Ott's but look for a Wayne Simmonds and Adam Larsson (type of players, not necessarily them in particular) to round out the lineup a little better.

Good points. Wild seems to split the baby on building a speed v. size team. It first does the really hard work of getting a top-4 of puck-movers or good skating Dmen (Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Dumba, heck, even Scandella was a decent puck-mover for a bigger, stay at home type).

Then they get some ok speed at forward with Zucker, Haula, Staal, and Coyle went he is up to speed. Kunin and Greenway could be decent adds.

But they don't commit to that speed build. Koivu is always going to be slow footed. Nino is average. JEE average. Granlund is average for smaller player. Ennis even worse. Pominville was eh.

 

[Wild11MN]

From what I saw, what actually buried us was a.) how bad we were at fighting for the space in front of the net, and b.) the overall talent and speed disparity between the teams. And while I don't blame Dubnyk for the loss, I guess c.) would be that Hellebuyck was just plain better.

Bingo. It feels like successful teams have a strong net-front presence, both offensively and defensively. That doesn't mean every player needs to be that guy, but we need guys like Nino and Coyle to camp around the net and throw in rebounds goals. It feels like a giant void on this team. And I feel like Nino was pretty decent at this in the past, so I'm not sure what happened.

 

[Uberdachen]

Bingo. It feels like successful teams have a strong net-front presence, both offensively and defensively. That doesn't mean every player needs to be that guy, but we need guys like Nino and Coyle to camp around the net and throw in rebounds goals. It feels like a giant void on this team. And I feel like Nino was pretty decent at this in the past, so I'm not sure what happened.

Nino threw his body around in maybe the first and/or second game, then apparently got into Coyle's nighttime kitten vitamin stash.

Parise played the net front. Parise scored in every game. The Wild scored zero goals after Parise's playoff heartboner climaxed. The numbers add up.