Speculation: GM Lou Lamoriello to take lesser role with team?

LeafsNation75

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Jan 15, 2010
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I believe Dreger speculated that Carolina could be interested, but he was never leaked by McKenzie or Friedman as a candidate.

Thing is, Kyle Dubas likely earns a whole lot more than $400K as AGM in Toronto, the province he is from.

I think the Carolina GM will be someone not currently employed looking for a branch back into the league
I only brought that up because if more GM positions become available I'm sure Dubas name might be out there and what if it's reported that Shanahan does not give permission to speak with him? The media will see it as Dubas is the next Leafs GM in waiting, however if he was allowed to interview the media would than say do the Leafs even want Dubas as their next GM? So it's a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't scenario.
 

SprDaVE

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All the arguments against Dubas are so weak lol.

Either way, Dubas or Hunter will do perfectly fine. And if the one that isnt chosen leaves the organization, then oh well. Lets not act like these guys arent replaceable.

Pretty much. Both are highly respected but neither are exactly irreplaceable. We'll find another assistant GM/Analytics expert or another head of scouting.
 
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LeafsBro

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Let’s all be honest here. Do we really know how Dubas would fare as our GM? By all accounts he’s a talented upcoming hockey executive but it’s not an easy job and this is arguably the most important management position in the entire league. I’m not doubting the guy and I will fully support him if he does in fact take the role, but there’s no way to evaluate him until he actually gives us an NHL resume to work with.
 

SprDaVE

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Let’s all be honest here. Do we really know how Dubas would fare as our GM? By all accounts he’s a talented upcoming hockey executive but it’s not an easy job and this is arguably the most important management position in the entire league. I’m not doubting the guy and I will fully support him if he does in fact take the role, but there’s no way to evaluate him until he actually gives us an NHL resume to work with.

I'd rather have someone that has been here since the start rather than going for some veteran GM that has been let go by his team for being bad essentially. Yzerman went from having zero NHL GM experience and now he's seen as one of the best out there all ready, even with a bumpy start in Tampa Bay in his first couple years.

Hunter has the same amount of NHL experience as Dubas.

I really don't want a Peter Chiarelli or Brian Burke to get in here and screw everything up because he thinks he knows more than anyone else about taking the next step.
 

Daisy Jane

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I'd rather have someone that has been here since the start rather than going for some veteran GM that has been let go by his team for being bad essentially. Yzerman went from having zero NHL GM experience and now he's seen as one of the best out there all ready, even with a bumpy start in Tampa Bay in his first couple years.

Hunter has the same amount of NHL experience as Dubas.

I really don't want a Peter Chiarelli or Brian Burke to get in here and screw everything up because he thinks he knows more than anyone else about taking the next step.


but the thing is those types wouldn't be targeted by Shanahan.
 

LeafFever

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All the arguments against Dubas are so weak lol.

Either way, Dubas or Hunter will do perfectly fine. And if the one that isnt chosen leaves the organization, then oh well. Lets not act like these guys arent replaceable.
Dubas is perfect. You can't just bring in a "Big Name" to take over. Dubas has been groomed for this. The GM is part of a team that will have to report to others. a young GM like Dubas is the best candidate.
 

dimi78

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Aug 9, 2008
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has Dubas won anything period?

and quite frankly if Dubas wants to walk away, see ya. I'd rather we have the best person for our organization. all Shanahan has done has hire people to make them uncomfortable so they aren't just settling to making the easy right decisions.

Really that's all Shanahan has done? Your way overanalyzing things if that's what you think Shanahan has built to be the management team since he came here. I could a sure you 1 thing it's the management team and how they operate under what is called the "Shanaplan" is what enticed Babcock to be the Leafs coach for 8 years.

The best guy credentials wise may not be the best fit. This has been Shanahan's show from the start he's the boss not the actual GM by title. So the question is what is the Shanaplan? The answer to that is what determines who's best person to be GM. Shanahan has built a management team and what's privy is what is the actual program/plan they all work under. Babcock bought in, Lou bought in and so did Dubas & Hunter. Who ever takes the tittle as GM will have to buy in the same way because it's the program that Shanahan has in place is what all will work to achieve at succeeding.
 
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Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
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Let’s all be honest here. Do we really know how Dubas would fare as our GM? By all accounts he’s a talented upcoming hockey executive but it’s not an easy job and this is arguably the most important management position in the entire league. I’m not doubting the guy and I will fully support him if he does in fact take the role, but there’s no way to evaluate him until he actually gives us an NHL resume to work with.

Though one could say the same thing about any candidate the Leafs bring in - everybody is a question mark.

Even with a guy like Lou - at the time of his hiring we didn’t know if he would act as he did when Jersey a powerhouse of a team or how he acted during his last couple years with that organization (which were quite frankly less than stellar).
 

LeafsBro

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Oct 18, 2011
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I'd rather have someone that has been here since the start rather than going for some veteran GM that has been let go by his team for being bad essentially. Yzerman went from having zero NHL GM experience and now he's seen as one of the best out there all ready, even with a bumpy start in Tampa Bay in his first couple years.

Hunter has the same amount of NHL experience as Dubas.

I really don't want a Peter Chiarelli or Brian Burke to get in here and screw everything up because he thinks he knows more than anyone else about taking the next step.

I don’t disagree with you. All I’m saying is that we’re taking a shot if he does in fact become our next GM because he’s still an unknown in that role. I’m not saying I don’t believe he could succeed but I don’t understand how there are people saying he’s perfect for the job if they have no track record to base their opinions on. I think he’s an exceptionally bright guy who may be the right choice in the end but he’s definitely not a sure thing.
 

SprDaVE

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I don’t disagree with you. All I’m saying is that we’re taking a shot if he does in fact become our next GM because he’s still an unknown in that role. I’m not saying I don’t believe he could succeed but I don’t understand how there are people saying he’s perfect for the job if they have no track record to base their opinions on. I think he’s an exceptionally bright guy who may be the right choice in the end but he’s definitely not a sure thing.

That is true and we won't know how good or bad he really is if he does end up getting the keys. I think there are pros and cons with about any realistic hire that is available to us.
 

Kiwi

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but the thing is those types wouldn't be targeted by Shanahan.

Dubas and Hunter were

Your either getting fresh blood from somewhere and having "hasn't proven anything" or a retread who's been let go because he's screwed up where he was in all likelihood

At least those two above have been here while we were turning this ship around
 

Daisy Jane

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Really that's all Shanahan has done? Your way overanalyzing things if that's what you think Shanahan has built to be the management team since he came here. I could a sure you 1 thing it's the management team and how they operate under what is called the "Shanaplan" is what enticed Babcock to be the Leafs coach for 8 years.

The best guy credentials wise may not be the best fit. This has been Shanahan's show from the start he's the boss not the actual GM by title. So the question is what is the Shanaplan? The answer to that is what determines who's best person to be GM. Shanahan has built a management team and what's privy is what is the actual program/plan they all work under. Babcock bought in, Lou bought in and so did Dubas & Hunter. Who ever takes the tittle as GM will have to buy in the same way because it's the program that Shanahan has in place is what all will work to achieve at succeeding.


to clarify.
I meant all he ever does is to bring in smart people with different ideas to get to point B, not all he did and then backed off. but i can see how that could read that's what i meant. i hope that helps a bit.
 

Daisy Jane

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Dubas and Hunter were

Your either getting fresh blood from somewhere and having "hasn't proven anything" or a retread who's been let go because he's screwed up where he was in all likelihood

At least those two above have been here while we were turning this ship around


yes. and they aren't burke/chia types. thus. anyone he'd interiew wouldn't be those types either.
 

Daisy Jane

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Dubas is perfect. You can't just bring in a "Big Name" to take over. Dubas has been groomed for this. The GM is part of a team that will have to report to others. a young GM like Dubas is the best candidate.

why is he perfect?
and how do you not know that someone else isn't "perfect" if you don't bring them in for an interview.
 

Kiwi

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yes. they are both qualified to do the GM job.
you know who else was "qualified" to do the GM job? John Chayka.

All I'm saying, and have been saying and will keep saying is that Shanahan should go through a search to find the best person. In real life any business even if they ultimately end up hiring internally, also performs an external job search, to see what's out there.

I personally don't want Hunter as the GM because i feel he's better suited doing his job as head of player whatever his title is slash AGM. however if he has a better plan of attack then say Paul Fenton (which Shanahan will know if he interviews them both), then fine.

I don't want to simply hand over our franchise that had to work extremely hard not to be dysfunctional and the butt end of everyone's jokes anymore to someone 'qualified." I want it to be handed to someone who is the absolute best person for the job after kicking everyone's butt in the vetting process.. Quite frankly if y'all fee that apprehensive about Shanahan meeting other people and Shanahan should just hand the job over to Dubas because he 'owes' him - that honestly doesn't fill me with confidence, and we have a big problem here.

Chayka?

Dubas would hardly be in the same situation team and organization wise now would he? Never mind the fact Dubas has been in house for the last 4 years

Team and organizations going great, let's mess with that by getting someone outside of the organization putting him in power and pissing off both of our assistant GM'S one of whom runs the entire scouting staff

Sounds like a real winner, let's turn over 75% of upper management in one fell swoop, stability is for suckers you reccon?
 

Daisy Jane

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Who do you think is going to be available with GM experience that hasn't messed up where he's been?

Messing up isn't an issue. you can't be perfect. Lou isn't perfect.. Burke and Chia are simply not good GMs Whoever will be a GM here won't be perfect either. but I don't think anyone who Shanahan would target would be of the mentality of a Burke or a Chia.
 
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LeafsNation75

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I'd rather have someone that has been here since the start rather than going for some veteran GM that has been let go by his team for being bad essentially. Yzerman went from having zero NHL GM experience and now he's seen as one of the best out there all ready, even with a bumpy start in Tampa Bay in his first couple years.

Hunter has the same amount of NHL experience as Dubas.

I really don't want a Peter Chiarelli or Brian Burke to get in here and screw everything up because he thinks he knows more than anyone else about taking the next step.
The funny thing is that's exactly how we ended up with Lou Lamoriello, however at least he's done a lot more than Brian Burke and Dave Nonis ever did.
 

Daisy Jane

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Chayka?

Dubas would hardly be in the same situation team and organization wise now would he? Never mind the fact Dubas has been in house for the last 4 years

Team and organizations going great, let's mess with that by getting someone outside of the organization putting him in power and pissing off both of our assistant GM'S one of whom runs the entire scouting staff

Sounds like a real winner, let's turn over 75% of upper management in one fell swoop, stability is for suckers you reccon?


why I want to know, is why you are so passionately against an interview. because ultimately that's all I said i wanted. Go out there, hear some ideas, and then see what Dubas and Hunter have to say then make an informed decision.

1: we don't know if Hunter wants to be GM. he could just want to run the scouting staff
2: many people have flat out said if one or the other gets the job - the other one is gonna leave anyway.
3: why are you assuming that whomever we get on the outside wouldn't bring keen scouts? (again. yzerman when he left took the guy who helped run Detroit's scouting for ages, and look at Tampa's scouting).

all i've said is that I don't think it's right for Dubas to simply be handed the keys. go through an interview process. why that's such a big affront to Dubas is beyond me.
 

Liminality

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I think familiarity would be in Dubas' favor against other candidates from another team. Of course they'll look at other people but Dubas was here almost from the start to help the system from the ground up. Shanahan was hired on April 11th 2014 to be president and alternate governor, Dubas was hired by Shanahan on July 22nd 2014 as assistant GM.

The Marlies look great under Dubas, I think I'd give him a shot to continue his progress under the Leafs.
 

egd27

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That literally means nothing in terms of relationships. Plenty of rookie GMs with various levels of experience at playing or managing have went on to be some of the best execs in the league. This is essentially just you saying whatever you think is happening with no facts. Dubas isn't an assistant GM with a pacifer in his mouth and in his parents basement doing literally nothing. He was an agent, a scout, an OHL GM and now a NHL executive. He was approached by a NHL team to take over their hockey operations... but yeah, he's got nothing going for him.

Having played in the NHL means literally nothing in terms of your current skill as a manager, scout or even having any sort of relationships with other GMs. Most of these relationships aren't exactly hard to build either.

The concept is flawed because you're believing whatever you want to believe and are just saying things without any facts.

I'm all for praising Hunter and crapping on Dubas if the information is there but it's starting to become a little much with this.

Please make it stop.
 

LeafsNation75

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why I want to know, is why you are so passionately against an interview. because ultimately that's all I said i wanted. Go out there, hear some ideas, and then see what Dubas and Hunter have to say then make an informed decision.

1: we don't know if Hunter wants to be GM. he could just want to run the scouting staff
2: many people have flat out said if one or the other gets the job - the other one is gonna leave anyway.
3: why are you assuming that whomever we get on the outside wouldn't bring keen scouts? (again. yzerman when he left took the guy who helped run Detroit's scouting for ages, and look at Tampa's scouting).

all i've said is that I don't think it's right for Dubas to simply be handed the keys. go through an interview process. why that's such a big affront to Dubas is beyond me.
Even if Shanahan wanted to make Dubas the next GM would you not agree that at least they are in a better position to do that? Compared to the time before Lou Lamoriello was hired Shanahan needed to hire someone outside of the organization because Dubas was not ready for all that responsibility.
 

Daisy Jane

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Even if Shanahan wanted to make Dubas the next GM would you not agree that at least they are in a better position to do that? Compared to the time before Lou Lamoriello was hired Shanahan needed to hire someone outside of the organization because Dubas was not ready for all that responsibility.


which is fine.
all i want is Shanahan to interview other people. get the lay of the land and then make a decision is all.
 

LeafsNation75

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which is fine.
all i want is Shanahan to interview other people. get the lay of the land and then make a decision is all.
Assuming that happens wouldn't it be the same people he interviewed last time? So there was obviously reasons why they didn't get the job, although maybe they would have if Lou was not available.
 

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