GDT: GM#29 LA Kings vs Minnesota Wild@7:00

[cyclones22]

I've never really understood the remarks that the Kings are playing well, sure, but Quick needs to play great or Kopi does or Doughty does. Well, aren't those our "great" players? Isn't greatness what we expect from them? That's why they're paid "great". Those guys are just playing to what we expect from them. It's not like they're playing at levels we've never seen from them before, especially accounting for the systematic change in philosophy with the puck. The reason the Kings didn't make the playoffs 2 out of 3 seasons is because of underperformance, not because our players aren't good enough.

 

[BigKing]

Most of us have been saying this team only goes as far as its best players can take them, which is stating the obvious and which is why most of the vitriol for last season was placed at Kopitar's feet.

In Quick's case, however, he has to maintain a level of play that he's only really done for one season and a playoff run so it's not just a matter of being "great", it is a matter of possibly being the best in the entire league. Kopitar is also playing at a level that he's only done in spurts, be it 2012/14 playoff runs or parts of other seasons. There will likely be a lull but hopefully it isn't as long as his previous production dips.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Also don't look now but Drew is 3rd in d-man scoring.

That's gonna cause a great disturbance in the force.

 

[KingTrouty]

Also don't look now but Drew is 3rd in d-man scoring.

That's gonna cause a great disturbance in the force.

As well as great angst on the main board

 

[lexlavender]

This is the kind of game the Kings need to play if they want to maintain their lead in the division. Super solid defensively, possession wise, and offensively. Quick didn't have to make any crazy saves, errors were very little, and the few goals that went in were quickly made up for.

That third period was phenomenal, with the Kings utterly taking over the game. I hope this game is a turning point for the Kings, and an indication that they've found their complete game. Happy for Gaborik, hopefully he keeps running hot.

Stick taps to Brown too, who's individual effort made the tying goal possible. Knocking a puck out of the air and getting it by two guys through shear force of will isn't easy!

 

[lexlavender]

Also don't look now but Drew is 3rd in d-man scoring.

That's gonna cause a great disturbance in the force.

Above anointed king Pietrangelo also. Definitely has become the Norris favorite imo.

 

[kings11]

I've never really understood the remarks that the Kings are playing well, sure, but Quick needs to play great or Kopi does or Doughty does. Well, aren't those our "great" players? Isn't greatness what we expect from them? That's why they're paid "great". Those guys are just playing to what we expect from them. It's not like they're playing at levels we've never seen from them before, especially accounting for the systematic change in philosophy with the puck. The reason the Kings didn't make the playoffs 2 out of 3 seasons is because of underperformance, not because our players aren't good enough.

Spot on.... add injuries as well

 

[lumbergh]

Great game by the Doughty-Muzzin duo. I really like the games when Doughty doesn't try too hard.

Odd stat for you. Kings are 7-1 when Kempe scores a goal.

 

[cyclones22]

I don't believe that this is even close to being the best that Quick can be. Although there have been games he has been spectacular, his save % is also by-product of what we've been saying (and the numbers prove out) all along. That the more shots a goaltender sees, the higher the save % is going to be. There have been games where the shot numbers against was high, but the actual quality of shots was low. Same goes for Kuemper. He's not standing on his head. Darcy's playing good, not great backstopping. But his numbers are great because of high volume, low quality shots he's seeing. If the boys don't throw centering passes to the opposition in the slot or give up a bunch of odd number attacks, then this will be the season Quick wins the Vezina.

As far as Kopi, again, this can be attributed to philosophical change in offense. Just about everyone looks better offensively this season. It's undeniable and it's not a coincidence. We've known for years that our guys had it in them, but just needed to be unleashed. How many times did folks on this board (past and present) go to the main board to argue that Kopi and Drew were capable of putting up great numbers but were being handcuffed by the system? Too many to count. Well, the leash is off now. Is Kopi going to be a 90 point scorer and drew a 60 point defenseman? Likely no. But in the Sutter system, Kopi was a 70 point scorer and Drew was a 40 to 50. They're going to eclipse that. The Kings as a team are shooting 9.5% (unless my math is wrong). For reference sake, that's good for 10th or so last season. So it's not like they're shooting the lights out either. And this is without Carter. Last I heard, that guy was pretty good.

Am I being too optimistic? Maybe. But I've seen the boys play better, yes for stretches. However, this is the first time they've been allowed this level of creativity, risk taking and patience. So yeah, why not. Look at last year's Rams offense vs this season. Obviously the leap was huge, but it's just an example of how changing philosophy and scheme can impact offensive performance.

 

[Sol]

Well, Minnesota plays a defensive neutral zone trap game. And their offense is purely on counter attack hence Quick wasn't too busy.

One thing, I know no one likes to hear it because of their soft spot for Quick, but Quick is paid to be a great goalie, not a mediocre goalie. So whenever he let's in easy goals I'm more hard than I'd be on your regular goalie.

If Quick continues to be great, there's no reason we can't win the cup with everyone keeling their play up too.

Quick is extremely inconsistent, but I hope he can keep it up.

The second goal was soft, he needs to lessen his easy goals, and especially when the puck is behind the net, he scrambles too much.

 

[King'sPawn]

Every great goalie lets in bad goals. I'm all for fair criticism, but I don't think you are applying fair standards.

 

[tsanuri]

Also don't look now but Drew is 3rd in d-man scoring.

That's gonna cause a great disturbance in the force.

But P/G he's barely top 10 so he's not the good.

 

[Sol]

Every great goalie lets in bad goals. I'm all for fair criticism, but I don't think you are applying fair standards.

How so? Quick has struggled with consistency for pretty much his entire career, I think calling him a great goalie for many years was pretty generous.

Quick on his game is the best in the business. But he's not on his game too often. He's always between being a great goalie and a good one.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Every great goalie lets in bad goals. I'm all for fair criticism, but I don't think you are applying fair standards.

Agreed, the ''consistant'' argument is a lame one.

You read it way too often.

 

[Sol]

Agreed, the ''consistant'' argument is a lame one.

You read it way too often.

For me when I say consistency, I also mean injuries as well.

For me, I'm harder on Quick because he has set a high bar for himself, so I'm pretty fast to criticize him.

I have no problem with people feeling the opposite then me, cause I know he holds a spot in the heart of most fans.


I'm like that for Brown and I was like that for Palffy, and Frolov.

You can't get an honest answer from me about those players because I really liked them a lot so I couldn't give you an honest assessment.

I do think Quick needs to be better consistently and hold a higher level of play to really solidify himself as a top tier goalie.

He's been really solid for the most part recently, I just don't like how I see in the current Quick how easy he is to throw off, back then it made him better... But now all someone needs to do is like Perry and annoy Quick just a little, and then he will start to be overly aggressive and out of position.

 

[tsanuri]

How so? Quick has struggled with consistency for pretty much his entire career, I think calling him a great goalie for many years was pretty generous.

Quick on his game is the best in the business. But he's not on his game too often. He's always between being a great goalie and a good one.

Lets look sty his numbers vs Lundqvist and Price
Quick has a better GAA
His save percentage is .004 worse vs both
And his shutout percentage is 8.93% vs Lundqvist 8.23% and 7.60% vs Price

So unless Lundqvist and Price aren't great either I would say he's great. And those two are considered by most great in the same time that Quick has been playing.
His save percentage has suffered due to the limited shots faced. Has been shown by more than a couple of people in the stats area that lower shots against means lower save percentage. And that same fact has probably helped his shutout percentage be higher.

 

[Sol]

Lets look sty his numbers vs Lundqvist and Price
Quick has a better GAA
His save percentage is .004 worse vs both
And his shutout percentage is 8.93% vs Lundqvist 8.23% and 7.60% vs Price

So unless Lundqvist and Price aren't great either I would say he's great. And those two are considered by most great in the same time that Quick has been playing.
His save percentage has suffered due to the limited shots faced. Has been shown by more than a couple of people in the stats area that lower shots against means lower save percentage. And that same fact has probably helped his shutout percentage be higher.

Are those stats from this season?

 

[tsanuri]

Are those stats from this season?

No career stats.

 

[Sol]

No career stats.

Interesting, maybe I'm being too tough on him. I am usually tough on goalies as it is.

I guess my own blindspot is that I have difficulty thinking his style is efficient, he scrambles way too much, and he gets emotionally compromised too easily nowadays it seems.

Probably that's what makes it hard for me to see him like that.

Those stats are pretty eye opening. My perspective seems to not be supported statistically it seems. Thanks for that.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

For me when I say consistency, I also mean injuries as well.

For me, I'm harder on Quick because he has set a high bar for himself, so I'm pretty fast to criticize him.

I have no problem with people feeling the opposite then me, cause I know he holds a spot in the heart of most fans.


I'm like that for Brown and I was like that for Palffy, and Frolov.

You can't get an honest answer from me about those players because I really liked them a lot so I couldn't give you an honest assessment.

I do think Quick needs to be better consistently and hold a higher level of play to really solidify himself as a top tier goalie.

He's been really solid for the most part recently, I just don't like how I see in the current Quick how easy he is to throw off, back then it made him better... But now all someone needs to do is like Perry and annoy Quick just a little, and then he will start to be overly aggressive and out of position.

So basically you say, you are right and those who disagree cant make a honest assessment because they like Quick too much ? The only time Quick sucked for a longer period of time was at the end of the 2012/2013 season and he was back in beast mode during the playoffs again.

Quick has been pretty steady for most part of his career. I seriously dont know what you are talking about. There are dozens of other Kings players I would call out regarding consistancy instead of Quick.

 

[cyclones22]

Here's my favorite Quick stat. 8 total Stanley Cup Final game victories. 5 - 0 in OT. FIVE victories, ZERO losses in sudden death. That's what separates him between those 2 other big market guys.

 

[kingsboy11]

Lets look sty his numbers vs Lundqvist and Price
Quick has a better GAA
His save percentage is .004 worse vs both
And his shutout percentage is 8.93% vs Lundqvist 8.23% and 7.60% vs Price

So unless Lundqvist and Price aren't great either I would say he's great. And those two are considered by most great in the same time that Quick has been playing.
His save percentage has suffered due to the limited shots faced. Has been shown by more than a couple of people in the stats area that lower shots against means lower save percentage. And that same fact has probably helped his shutout percentage be higher.

To add onto this:
Quick: 5.8 million cap hit

Lundqvist: 8.5 million
Price: soon to be 10.5 million
Rask: 7 million
Rinne: 7 million
Bobrovsky: 7.425 million
Holtby: 6.1 million
Crawford: 6 million
Schneider: 6 million
Bishop: 5.95
Lehtonen: 5.9 million
Varlamov: 5.9 million

Out of all these players with higher cap hits, I think only Bobrovsky is really worth the contract that he got of the really elite goalies.

 

[tsanuri]

Interesting, maybe I'm being too tough on him. I am usually tough on goalies as it is.

I guess my own blindspot is that I have difficulty thinking his style is efficient, he scrambles way too much, and he gets emotionally compromised too easily nowadays it seems.

Probably that's what makes it hard for me to see him like that.

Those stats are pretty eye opening. My perspective seems to not be supported statistically it seems. Thanks for that.

We all tend to at times look at things through emotion and not logic especially when it comes to our team.
But he has easily been the best goalie we have had since Rogie. And in the end I think he will easily be better as long as he doesn't get injured again and lose major amounts of time.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The 'problem' with Quick is he's so active he looks terrible when he gets scored on as compared to the reserved butterfly guys as the puck simply gets past them as opposed to AROUND Quick, haha. Those career stats should be more impressive given how 'bad' people have thought he was with an artificially depressed save % due to lack of stat padding shot volume and in context with his massive injuries.

I really need to find the article but there was a great writeup once where it talked about guys like Hasek, Quick, Thomas-style 'battlers' vs. butterfly percentage guys but the gist was that even if the athletic guy lets in an odd goal now and then he's also going to make saves the other guys can't/won't because of that athleticism and those are often the gamebreakers. I think we can confirm that observation to a degree.

 

[tsanuri]

To add onto this:
Quick: 5.8 million cap hit

Lundqvist: 8.5 million
Price: soon to be 10.5 million
Rask: 7 million
Rinne: 7 million
Bobrovsky: 7.425 million
Holtby: 6.1 million
Crawford: 6 million
Schneider: 6 million
Bishop: 5.95
Lehtonen: 5.9 million
Varlamov: 5.9 million

Out of all these players with higher cap hits, I think only Bobrovsky is really worth the contract that he got of the really elite goalies.

If we are honest we know we have a better deal because he was pre 2013 CBA. If it wasn't we wouldn't have near as good a deal on his salary.
But we got him under the rules at the time and it has helped.