Germany, Belarus, Switzerland: Emerging Hockey Nations?

[Eagle Eye Cherry]

In the wake of recent results at the World Juniors, will anyone agree that these mentioned nations are emerging hockey powers? or at least hockey nations?
This year, Germany defeats USA, Slovakia (both big 7 nations)
This year, Belarus defeats Finland (a team that had tukka rask in net) also defeated the only gold medal winning US jr. squad a couple of years back.
This year, the Swiss just defeated the guys who edged the Finns, not to mention, tied the Americans last year, defeated the olympic canadian, czech teams. they also defeated a world championship russian team a few years back.

Does anyone notice the trend here???
Agree or Disagree?

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[FTowwn]

In the wake of recent results at the World Juniors, will anyone agree that these mentioned nations are emerging hockey powers? or at least hockey nations?
This year, Germany defeats USA, Slovakia (both big 7 nations)
This year, Belarus defeats Finland (a team that had tukka rask in net) also defeated the only gold medal winning US jr. squad a couple of years back.
This year, the Swiss just defeated the guys who edged the Finns, not to mention, tied the Americans last year, defeated the olympic canadian, czech teams. they also defeated a world championship russian team a few years back.

Does anyone notice the trend here???
Agree or Disagree?

I agree. Germany and Switzerland have been around for a while but never really had competitive teams, but this obviously changing. Both countries have promising prospects that will help them at the international level (for Germany- Greiss, Goc, Gogulla, Shutz, Ehroff, Schubert... for Switzerland- i, Berra, Romy, Sprunger, Simek). Switzerland is still by far the most competitive of the 3, but that could change.
Also, dont forget Latvia, they too are on the rise

 

[Eagle Eye Cherry]

I also have to say the more and more the hockey powers meet the germans, swiss or belorussians, the games are not as big of a blowout anymore. I remember last year at the world juniors the canadians had a tough fight with the swiss though they won 4-3. (the most goals allowed for the canadians in that tournament!!!even the americans didn't score that much!). YEARS AGO, The Elite nations would sleep on the job and still crush those nations like 7-0 or so.

 

[Chootoi]

during the germany/usa game i remember i heard gord miller mention something that the german and belarus wins don't matter towards relegation. it's only the record vs. the other "relegation eligible teams" that matters. is this true? that's pretty absurd if it is. theoretically could this mean germany could've won their division and still be relegated if they lose the wrong game?

also, are the big nations eligible to be relegated if they do poorly? how does a country become "relegation exempt"? or does this exist? i've tried to dig up an iihf rulebook on this, but no luck so far.

 

[SpezNc2]

In the wake of recent results at the World Juniors, will anyone agree that these mentioned nations are emerging hockey powers? or at least hockey nations?
This year, Germany defeats USA, Slovakia (both big 7 nations)
This year, Belarus defeats Finland (a team that had tukka rask in net) also defeated the only gold medal winning US jr. squad a couple of years back.
This year, the Swiss just defeated the guys who edged the Finns, not to mention, tied the Americans last year, defeated the olympic canadian, czech teams. they also defeated a world championship russian team a few years back.

Does anyone notice the trend here???
Agree or Disagree?

Fluke's victories! It's nice to see upset win sometimes but he is just a fluke win.. And it's gonna always be that way...

Kazackstan beats Canada in 98's Where they are now?

 

[fan75]

during the germany/usa game i remember i heard gord miller mention something that the german and belarus wins don't matter towards relegation. it's only the record vs. the other "relegation eligible teams" that matters. is this true? that's pretty absurd if it is. theoretically could this mean germany could've won their division and still be relegated if they lose the wrong game?

also, are the big nations eligible to be relegated if they do poorly? how does a country become "relegation exempt"? or does this exist? i've tried to dig up an iihf rulebook on this, but no luck so far.

You end up in the relegation round by finishing in the bottom two of your group. The only game that carries over is the one against the other team headed to the relegation round. So if Switzerland and Belarus end up 4th and 5th in group B, the only game that will carry over is the 4-1 win for Switzerland. If Finland and Belarus finish 4th and 5th, the only game that will carry over is the 4-3 Belarussian win. There's no way you could win your group and and still be relegated.

All teams are eligible to be relegated, there are no exemptions.

 

[PanniniClaus]

during the germany/usa game i remember i heard gord miller mention something that the german and belarus wins don't matter towards relegation. it's only the record vs. the other "relegation eligible teams" that matters. is this true? that's pretty absurd if it is. theoretically could this mean germany could've won their division and still be relegated if they lose the wrong game?

also, are the big nations eligible to be relegated if they do poorly? how does a country become "relegation exempt"? or does this exist? i've tried to dig up an iihf rulebook on this, but no luck so far.

Those wins will not matter if they end up in the relegation round and lost to the team in their division that also heads to the relegation round. That result carries over, they then play the two teams that missed the playoffs from the other division. The top 2 teams stay up and the bottom two go down. Belarus beat the Us 2 years ago but that win did nothing for them other than the fact it was damn nice to crush the US on their home ice and get a win fro their program.
There are no teams exempt from relegation. If Germany stay up and Slovakia or the US are one of the bottom 2 - they are going down.

 

[PanniniClaus]

You end up in the relegation round by finishing in the bottom two of your group. The only game that carries over is the one against the other team headed to the relegation round. So if Switzerland and Belarus end up 4th and 5th in group B, the only game that will carry over is the 4-1 win for Switzerland. If Finland and Belarus finish 4th and 5th, the only game that will carry over is the 4-3 Belarussian win. There's no way you could win your group and and still be relegated.

All teams are eligible to be relegated, there are no exemptions.

Sorry you got your post in while I was writing mine

 

[Jazz]

....All teams are eligible to be relegated, there are no exemptions.

Unless you are hosting the next year.

 

[Jazz]

In the wake of recent results at the World Juniors, will anyone agree that these mentioned nations are emerging hockey powers? or at least hockey nations?
This year, Germany defeats USA, Slovakia (both big 7 nations)
This year, Belarus defeats Finland (a team that had tukka rask in net) also defeated the only gold medal winning US jr. squad a couple of years back.
This year, the Swiss just defeated the guys who edged the Finns, not to mention, tied the Americans last year, defeated the olympic canadian, czech teams. they also defeated a world championship russian team a few years back.

Does anyone notice the trend here???
Agree or Disagree?

Emerging - Yes, but it will still take time.

Upsets like these are still going to be against the norm (unfortunately) for the time being, but they will slowly rise in frequency.

Also, don't mix Slovakia in with the Top-6 at the U-20 level. Their junior system is in heavy decline (see: http://www.internationalhockeygang.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4396 ). The German victory today vs Slovakia was NOT an upset.

Plus, other than Belarus in SLC 2002, we still need to see an upset during a playoff stage.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Correct me if I´m wrong, but I heard somewhere that only one team will be relagated this year and in the future.

Also, Germany, Switzerland and Belarus are certainly getting better and it´s good to see. It will be a lot easier for them to have sucess on the men´s level than age divisions. You only need to produce 23 good players over a 15 year span to have a shot at an Olympic medal. Heck if you look at the Czec. Republic´s roster for the ´98 olympics they only have about 10 good players and one phenomenal goalie.

 

[cska78]

Well Swiss and Germany are sort of emerging, even though they were always that lower echelon of good teams since the 80's for sure. Belorus' was always good (and now will get better as they are allowed to field their first team in russian premiere league), 'cause they got to play in Soviet Chempionship, so did Kazahstan (they are allowed to field 2 teams in russian premiere league, note not super league), Latvija and Ukraine benefited from that too.

As far as I know they are very responsible about hockey in Belorus'. I know Swiss are taking the game seriusly also. As for Germany, I don't really know anything about their league.

 

[GKJ]

during the germany/usa game i remember i heard gord miller mention something that the german and belarus wins don't matter towards relegation. it's only the record vs. the other "relegation eligible teams" that matters. is this true? that's pretty absurd if it is. theoretically could this mean germany could've won their division and still be relegated if they lose the wrong game?

also, are the big nations eligible to be relegated if they do poorly? how does a country become "relegation exempt"? or does this exist? i've tried to dig up an iihf rulebook on this, but no luck so far.

The two teams in each pool that don't make the knockout round have to play each other in a four-team pool and two teams are relegated from that pool.

in other words, if Germany makes the knockout round they don't have to worry about being relegated

 

[Jazz]

Well Swiss and Germany are sort of emerging, even though they were always that lower echelon of good teams since the 80's for sure. Belorus' was always good (and now will get better as they are allowed to field their first team in russian premiere league), 'cause they got to play in Soviet Chempionship, so did Kazahstan (they are allowed to field 2 teams in russian premiere league, note not super league), Latvija and Ukraine benefited from that too.

Yes, they players in Belarus will have better competition, BUT, there is a requirement by the Russian league that the players in the league apply for Russian citizenship in order not be counted as imports. With this now, many Kazakh players have now stated they will no longer play for the Kazakh national team.....so I'm not sure that this is a good thing.

It will help the players from Belarus, but that won't matter if they don't play for the national team.

 

[Jazz]

Correct me if I´m wrong, but I heard somewhere that only one team will be relagated this year and in the future.

That is incorrect. Denmark and Kazakhstan have already won their respective qualifying tournaments (Div I) and both will be with the elite next year in the Czech Republic. 2 will be relegated from this tournament.

Also, Germany, Switzerland and Belarus are certainly getting better and it´s good to see. It will be a lot easier for them to have sucess on the men´s level than age divisions. You only need to produce 23 good players over a 15 year span to have a shot at an Olympic medal. Heck if you look at the Czec. Republic´s roster for the ´98 olympics they only have about 10 good players and one phenomenal goalie.

The '98 Czech team purposfully chose only 10 or so NHLers because they thought that having some players from their domestic leagues would help with team chemistry. It was not due to any lack of depth at the NHL level.

 

[Oilslick941611]

The Swiss have been Emerging since 1995, with some minor setbacks and disappointments though.

Germany's been a spoiler for top teams in all age brackets.

Belarus, never watched them play.

 

[FTowwn]

The Swiss have been Emerging since 1995, with some minor setbacks and disappointments though.

Germany's been a spoiler for top teams in all age brackets.

Belarus, never watched them play.

Belarus could be a very exciting team to watch in a few years. The Kostitsyn brothers, Grabovsky, Steafanovich, and Zhakarov are all offensive threats and will only get better for their country,

 

[Kaizer]

Not sure about Belarus and Germany yet, but Switzerland is already hockey nation in my opinion. Almost every last WHC they prove it. They are not top-tier team, but they are dangerous opponent for every team in men hockey.

 

[BruinsBtn]

The '98 Czech team purposfully chose only 10 or so NHLers because they thought that having some players from their domestic leagues would help with team chemistry. It was not due to any lack of depth at the NHL level.

Shenanigans!

I beseech you to name other players from the Czec. Rep. who were in the NHL that could have been on that team.

 

[emb24*]

In the wake of recent results at the World Juniors, will anyone agree that these mentioned nations are emerging hockey powers? or at least hockey nations?
This year, Germany defeats USA, Slovakia (both big 7 nations)
This year, Belarus defeats Finland (a team that had tukka rask in net) also defeated the only gold medal winning US jr. squad a couple of years back.
This year, the Swiss just defeated the guys who edged the Finns, not to mention, tied the Americans last year, defeated the olympic canadian, czech teams. they also defeated a world championship russian team a few years back.

Does anyone notice the trend here???
Agree or Disagree?

powers no? 1 game upsets does not make a power, especially at the junior level.
consistently in 5-10 place?
yes, maybe...

 

[statistics]

Shenanigans!

I beseech you to name other players from the Czec. Rep. who were in the NHL that could have been on that team.

Patrik Elias
Radek Dvorak
Radek Bonk
Michal Grosek
Bobby Holik (he is now US citizen)
Robert Kron
Pavel Kubina (NHL/AHL)
Stanislav Neckar
Frantisek Musil (NHL/IHL)
Vaclav Prospal
Michal Sykora (played in 2002 olympics)
Petr Sykora
Vaclav Varada (NHL/AHL)
Roman Turek

 

[MOGiLNY]

Yes, they players in Belarus will have better competition, BUT, there is a requirement by the Russian league that the players in the league apply for Russian citizenship in order not be counted as imports. With this now, many Kazakh players have now stated they will no longer play for the Kazakh national team.....so I'm not sure that this is a good thing.

It will help the players from Belarus, but that won't matter if they don't play for the national team.

But if those players have a dual citizenship, then they would still be eligible to represent Belarus as long as they don't play for Russia first.

 

[Jazz]

But if those players have a dual citizenship, then they would still be eligible to represent Belarus as long as they don't play for Russia first.

That is not they way I understand this:

- Finally, players from the former Soviet Republics will also be counted as foreign players. Again the opposition from the clubs proved strong. According to the compromise proposal, players with dual citizenship will not be counted as foreigners if they renounce their right to play for their non-Russian national team. These players must send a letter of intent to the IIHF.

Kazakh goalie Vitaly Eremeev has already done this.....

 

[cska78]

That is not they way I understand this:Kazakh goalie Vitaly Eremeev has already done this.....

Yes a tricky matter, as teams in Russia are now allowed three players that play for other national teams, no matter whether they have Russian citizenship or not. Those places are usually taken up by Chehs, Slovaks, sometimes finns and swids or even canadiens. For former soviet republics players it became very hard to crack the team as they are counted as foriegners, so they have to wave the right to play for their countries. Now if all these players still play for a Belorussian team they don't have to wave anything, only if they catch the eye of bigger RSL teams, as the team from Minsk will play in Premiere League, just like the two teams from Kazahstan.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

For this tournament and the Olympics I'd only invite the big seven plus one of the emerging nations.
Do a round robin where every team plays each other once.
Top four play in the semi-finals.
One final game, no bronze medal game (just awarded based on points).

Every game would be worth watching!