German Football Part III

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by bluesfan94, Jul 6, 2017.

  1. MrFunnyWobbl

    MrFunnyWobbl The Next One

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    30 isn't old.

    Vidal is probably the best player in Chile's team at 30.
     
  2. Bon Esprit

    Bon Esprit Registered User

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    Robben is 33. The Dutch failed to qualify again. It's time to get rid of the old players and start from the ground. That's what they are going to do. They have young talented players, no doubt. But they need to play. No Robben van Persie etc.
     
  3. Deficient Mode

    Deficient Mode Registered User

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    It's pretty old.
     
  4. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Nah, it's not far off from what's considered peak performance age. But there's an old 30 and a young 30. A lot of it comes down to mileage. If you started playing 40-50 top level games a year as a teenager then 30 is rather old as you'll already have 500+ games in your bones. Like Messi for example..but then how many people would consider Messi an old player now?
     
  5. Deficient Mode

    Deficient Mode Registered User

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    In this sport? Outfield players peak in their mid 20s. Vast majority of even the best players are out of top European football by 33-34. And even the best players in that age range (Iniesta, Mascherano, Robben, Chiellini) have noticeably fallen off.
     
  6. MrFunnyWobbl

    MrFunnyWobbl The Next One

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    Ronaldo, Zlatan.... Maybe they are outliers but I don't think its unreasonable to play at a (close to) elite level until ~35. Probably juts need dedication to staying in shape and eating right. Though Vidal doesn't seem like that type.

    Hell, Look at Jagr
     
  7. Live in the Now

    Live in the Now Global Moderator

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    It is unbelievably unreasonable and people should wise up as to how it is possible for players to play that long.

    In the UFC every old fighter has been getting destroyed since random drug testing came into play.
     
  8. Havre

    Havre Registered User

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    Not really comparable. So many more hockey players have been able to be competitive at the highest level being 35+ than what the case is for football.

    Have a football player ever (or at least the last 20-30 years) been world class at 40? That has happened in hockey.
     
  9. Bon Esprit

    Bon Esprit Registered User

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    Only a few players can play top level over 32/33. It depends on health and position they play. And talent, of course.
    Today they play 50+ games a year including NT matches and matches all over the world. Players like Klaus Fichtel or Mirko Votava (I know you can't know them) played until they were 40+ on top level. But that was then. They couldn't do that today.

    How many hockey players (Jagr aside) play top level over 35 ?
     
  10. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Matthaus was almost 30 when he led Germany to the World Cup and was 30 when he led Inter to the UEFA Cup and won FIFA player of the year a year later. Klinsmann was 30 when he had that great season at Spurs. And lets not even mention all the Italian defenders who often don't even start peaking before they get close to 30.

    I think people's perception on this has noticeably changed as the average age of players has dropped so much in the last decade or so and especially people are given the chance to start much earlier. It used to be that 27-29 was considered the peak age and at 30 you'd be kind of at that point where you're still pretty close to peak but the drop-off has just begun or is about to begin, so maybe not a good idea to buy on the transfer market necessarily but if that's your star player you're banking on another 2-3 good years.
     
  11. Deficient Mode

    Deficient Mode Registered User

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    Many good players will play good football at 30, and some will have career-defining moments like you mentioned. Schweinsteiger certainly did, but his play dropped off very sharply after winning the World Cup. The average player will certainly peak a few years before that. I think the cases of players peaking at 30 are very rare. Some of the best can continue to play very well at that age if they avoid injuries, but it's certainly far from the norm right now. The fact that players need to run a lot harder these days is probably a significant part of the reason why age would be lower.

    The average age also seems to go in cycles. Sure, it was quite high in the late 90s and early 2000s, around where you said, but in 1990-91 the median of the average age of a Bundesliga team was 25.7. In 1970-71, it was also 25.7. In 1980-81, however, it was much closer to the late 90s number: 26.6.
     
  12. maclean

    maclean Registered User

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    Question regarding German ticketing in general, perhaps for cgf in particular - I'm going to be in Berlin at the beginning of November and decided to check what games are on and discovered Union is playing St Pauli at home, which is probably as attractive a match-up as I could've hoped for. The question is, if I get a friend who lives there to get tickets, will he have no problem doing so? Here games like that are often classified as "risky" meaning the tickets only go through the teams' respective fan clubs and it can be next to impossible to get them without a membership. Or that's the case up until a certain point and then only a small number of tickets are released for general buying. Do you think any of that will be applicable here?
     
  13. Bon Esprit

    Bon Esprit Registered User

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    I'm not cgf, but neither Union fans nor Pauli fans can be rated as violent. St. Pauli is left wing and I don't think Union have trouble with that. It's not like BFC, Dynamo Dresden or Hansa Rostock who are ultra right wing.
    I don't think Union Berlin-St. Pauli Hamburg is risky.
     
  14. Nalens Oga

    Nalens Oga Registered User

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    Sit in the middle/family section away from those ultras and you'll have no problem. Plus your view won't be obstructed by idiots waving flags.

    [​IMG]

    Probably the two most likely teams to be relegated kicking off the weekend now in an awful game (though I would think that Freiburg and Hamburg are more likely to eventually end up at the bottom than Stuttgart). Pizarro probably getting his first start for Koln because Cordoba's still injured.

    edit: Nvm Pizarro's not starting, Badstuber/Terodde are back for VFB, they should win this imo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 2:11 PM
  15. Bon Esprit

    Bon Esprit Registered User

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    Why do you think Köln and Stuttgart/Freiburg are likely to get relegated? As of today there are alot of options, including Hannover, Bremen, Hamburg or Mainz. Way too early to say.
     
  16. Nalens Oga

    Nalens Oga Registered User

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    Because Koln play like **** and have nothing up front, they don't even have a proper backup to their **** up front plus they leak goals. Bittencourt's the only offensively threatening player on the whole team and they're unprepared for Bundesliga + Europe. Freiburg just don't have a very good roster but they could possibly survive. Hamburg have too many undeveloped or mediocre players and they've looked disorganized every time I saw them so they could get relegated but have enough to probably survive.

    Bremen and Mainz have good enough squads or coaching to stay up, Bremen should start getting better results as they return to health as well. Though they look almost as offensively **** as Koln.
     
  17. Nalens Oga

    Nalens Oga Registered User

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    Wow Donis, almost got another, what a free-kick.
     
  18. Bon Esprit

    Bon Esprit Registered User

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    I'm with you regarding Köln. They are bad. But we are very early in the season. Many things happen during a long season.
     
  19. Nalens Oga

    Nalens Oga Registered User

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    Well that was bull****. After Stuttgart had like 20 chances to score from the counter but couldn't finish anything, Heintz scores from outside the box against the run of play.
     
  20. Nalens Oga

    Nalens Oga Registered User

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    I don't know what these idiots they hired at the VAR HQ are doing, refs have to keep using their own screen. That was a 50-50 challenge at best and clearly not a penalty, took one replay to see it and they spent like 5 minutes on the review.

    Lmao what a celebration Akolo, throws his shirt, Stuttgart mascot joins in.
     
  21. HajdukSplit

    HajdukSplit Registered User

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    That VAR decision took way too long, first the conversation then he went to the screen, why didn't he go to the screen right away? Can't imagine him hearing much anyway with players yelling at him :laugh:
     
  22. Nalens Oga

    Nalens Oga Registered User

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    They keep having to use the screen because I'm guessing the HQ is unsure and then just leaves it to the discretion of the referee. I don't know why they would be unsure either, it was such an easy decision to not give a penalty on that play.

    Anyways, Koln look pretty useless in defending the counter against lesser teams and they're too bad to do anything against the top teams...probably need to start looking into a coaching change because the problems can't be blamed simply on losing Modeste. Stuttgart could've had at least a couple more if they'd gotten better finishing. Probably need better fullbacks too, Aogo especially kept leaving the left flank open and Badstuber's not who you want trying to go wide and defend against wingers at this point.
     
  23. Nalens Oga

    Nalens Oga Registered User

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    Oof tight chess match in the Hertha - Schalke game but Haraguchi who's in for Leckie got himself a red card at the end of the 1st sadly so Hertha's down to 10. Schalke already have 2 strikers on.

    The challenge should probably have been a yellow as well.
     
  24. Pavel Buchnevich

    Pavel Buchnevich AV AND GORTON OUT

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    Nice of Freiburg to lie down for Bavaria today, they didn't seem to want to do that against us a few weeks back when they injured our players and took a draw out of the match.
     
  25. Nalens Oga

    Nalens Oga Registered User

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    Yeah Schalke still look pretty toothless with possession, their goals came after going a man up then on a PK and the second on a counter-attack. Hertha probably played with more urgency in the second half despite the man down. Also their black away kits with the green on them are awful and don't go at all with the white socks/shirts.

    Hertha should probably be okay, Leckie and Selke started on the bench and their next fixtures are Augsburg, Hamburg, Wolfsburg, and Bremen...all winnable.
     

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