German Football Part III

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Albatros

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Throwing the silver medal away (Wagner) and no participating of the entire Bayern team in the post game festivities shows the right team won.

The best punishment for that behavior was to have their Bundesliga title celebration today, all those happy faces:

meisterfeier-2-hp.jpg
 

Bon Esprit

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Jan 24, 2004
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The best punishment for that behavior was to have their Bundesliga title celebration today, all those happy faces:

meisterfeier-2-hp.jpg
The only class act was Heynckes on tv who didn't need excuses or the foul situation (Martinez). Great coach, great personality. You will never be forgotten, Jupp.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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If you actually read what you quoted I was posing a hypothetical, not a comparison.

There's no point in a debate about a hypothetical scenario here because Pep would never take a fixed short-term caretaker job like Heynckes did, so we'd never have a chance to debate Pep's performance in similar circumstances.

People compared Pep to Heynckes because Heynckes was basically encouraged to 'retire' by Bayern brass who felt they needed a world-class manager to win the CL. Of course, they then won the CL with Heynckes after Pep had already been announced. Whether that was fair to Pep is a different question but has nothing to do with whether people criticize Heynckes now in these circumstances. And in any event, Bayern's season this year was pretty remarkably similar to those under Pep..dominant league campaign, CL exit in the semifinals..in spite of having started out looking quite bad under Ancelotti.
 

les Habs

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There's no point in a debate about a hypothetical scenario here because Pep would never take a fixed short-term caretaker job like Heynckes did, so we'd never have a chance to debate Pep's performance in similar circumstances.

People compared Pep to Heynckes because Heynckes was basically encouraged to 'retire' by Bayern brass who felt they needed a world-class manager to win the CL. Of course, they then won the CL with Heynckes after Pep had already been announced. Whether that was fair to Pep is a different question but has nothing to do with whether people criticize Heynckes now in these circumstances. And in any event, Bayern's season this year was pretty remarkably similar to those under Pep..dominant league campaign, CL exit in the semifinals..in spite of having started out looking quite bad under Ancelotti.

There is a point as Guardiola would have been treated differently.

Bayern's seasons under Guardiola weren't remarkable according to some here. And this isn't even to mention the free pass that Ancelotti got.
 

Albatros

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Ancelotti essentially had his managerial reputation ruined by that job, despite winning the league just the same. Kovač arrives as a champion, but still has less to lose, he already defeated his predecessor in a direct duel and no one expects a treble from him.

image_slshow_einzel_0_26.jpg
 

Islesfan22

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Rebic and Kramaric will unfortunately be on the bench for Croatia at the World Cup despite their fantastic form :rolleyes:
Rebic probably will be but I do believe Kramaric will start. Croatia can't be that stupid to bench one of the most in form forwards over the last 6 weeks.
 

Islesfan22

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I dont know I dont follow Croatia. I would assume someone good to keep them out
It could be Brozovic who is in good form for inter Milan. Brozovic is not a winger though even though he has played there for club and country. Brozovic playing the regista position mostly in Italy lately . Kramaric must start either at wing or CF.
 

Corto

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Yeah, kovac will have every excuse imaginable brought up to defend him next season

I still don't understand your problem with him.

He took Eintracht in a situation that looked destined to end in relegation, kept them up. Finished 7th twice in a row, with two Cup finals and the first trophy for Eintracht in 30 years - while, I'll also say, evolving as a coach and his team playing rather good football this season.

I enjoyed the salt in your comment though.
 

Corto

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Who should they start instead of?

Kramaric will start. Rebic won't, unless Perisic is out of form.

Subasic - Vrsaljko, Vida, Corluka/Lovren, a human playing LB - Modric, Rakitic, Kovacic/Brozovic - Perisic, Mandzukic, Kramaric
 

Ivan13

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I have no problem with him. I will thoroughly enjoy watching him wreck Bayern for a few months.
I'm no fan of his, for various reasons - some non-football related - but your takes are patently absurd and petty at best. As Corto has said, he has evolved markedly from a guy who coached Croatia a handful of years ago, he made the most from the players he was given, created a system that fits with the personnel he had at his disposal and outperformed the expectations put before him. Yet you feel the need to talk in absolutes and proclaim him a failure before he even coaches a first match at Bayern.

Is it possible he bombs? Yes, it is likely. Is it a dead certainty? No it's not, even though he is not the hipster German pick like Tuchel, Nagelssman, Favre etc.
 

cgf

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Ah yes. The good ol “just give him a chance you damn hipster” defense. Ancelotti apologists loved that one. If only I weren’t such a hipster & gave him the chance I refused to give Capello, Hecking & Stöger :rolleyes:
 

Bon Esprit

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Ah yes. The good ol “just give him a chance you damn hipster” defense. Ancelotti apologists loved that one. If only I weren’t such a hipster & gave him the chance I refused to give Capello, Hecking & Stöger :rolleyes:
I doubt Kovac does worse than Ancelotti. CL 1/4 exit and one national title will be the benchmark. Bayern wanted a German speaking coach, missed out on Tuchel and after that it's pretty slim.
 

PanniniClaus

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Wolfsburg and Kiel in leg 2 today. Kiel have enough attacking chops to make this worth watching.

Should be wide open.
 

Bon Esprit

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Wolfsburg and Kiel in leg 2 today. Kiel have enough attacking chops to make this worth watching.

Should be wide open.
Problem is WOB only needs one goal and the series is over. I'm pulling for Holstein, of course, but I don't think they can get it done.
 

Deficient Mode

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I'm no fan of his, for various reasons - some non-football related - but your takes are patently absurd and petty at best. As Corto has said, he has evolved markedly from a guy who coached Croatia a handful of years ago, he made the most from the players he was given, created a system that fits with the personnel he had at his disposal and outperformed the expectations put before him. Yet you feel the need to talk in absolutes and proclaim him a failure before he even coaches a first match at Bayern.

Is it possible he bombs? Yes, it is likely. Is it a dead certainty? No it's not, even though he is not the hipster German pick like Tuchel, Nagelssman, Favre etc.

Kovac has evolved into a decent coach but it's not just a matter of hipster opinion. He hasn't done nearly enough to merit the top coaching spot in Germany. I don't see how that's debatable. He got the position because he is a friend of the sporting director. He won't flop to the point where they won't win the league but he was far from the most deserving candidate - hipster or not.
 

Bon Esprit

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Kovac has evolved into a decent coach but it's not just a matter of hipster opinion. He hasn't done nearly enough to merit the top coaching spot in Germany. I don't see how that's debatable. He got the position because he is a friend of the sporting director. He won't flop to the point where they won't win the league but he was far from the most deserving candidate - hipster or not.
Do you seriously think Brazzo can hire a coach without Hoeneß and/or Rummenigge's permisson? Kovac was the only candidate. Tuchel was out, becausseBayern was too slow and Tuchel signed with PSG instead. Nagelsmann (who I highly doubt was in serious consideration) got a NO from HOF. What German speaking coach is/was available? Klopp is happy at LFC from what I read.
 

Deficient Mode

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Do you seriously think Brazzo can hire a coach without Hoeneß and/or Rummenigge's permisson? Kovac was the only candidate. Tuchel was out, becausseBayern was too slow and Tuchel signed with PSG instead. Nagelsmann (who I highly doubt was in serious consideration) got a NO from HOF. What German speaking coach is/was available? Klopp is happy at LFC from what I read.

Bayern flirted with and turned down Tuchel well before the rumors of his PSG signing were out.

Looks like Hasenhüttl is available now too.

If Nagelsmann didn't get "serious consideration" but Kovac did that's still a huge mistake from them.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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I think they hired someone they're more comfortable with..I don't know if that was the case with Tuchel. This may well come back to bite them in the you know what, but that would be good for the Bundesliga. Maybe this time they won't be able to call in Heynckes in November to turn things around.
 

Corto

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He got the position because he is a friend of the sporting director.

That is just utter bullcrap. And you know it.

If you think Hasan Salihamidzic goes about employing hs friends, without Hoeness and Rummenigge's approval, you're either being ignorant or deliberately obtuse for the sake of your argument (I'm betting its the latter).
 

Ivan13

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Kovac has evolved into a decent coach but it's not just a matter of hipster opinion. He hasn't done nearly enough to merit the top coaching spot in Germany. I don't see how that's debatable. He got the position because he is a friend of the sporting director. He won't flop to the point where they won't win the league but he was far from the most deserving candidate - hipster or not.

Good thing I'm not debating that. As I said I'm not a fan of his, nor do I think he is the level of the coach - at least not at this point in his career - that should be coaching a giant like Bayern, but I have a problem with petty, edgy claims that bring absolutely nothing to the table. If someone thinks Kovač will fail miserably and is a fraud, he should have no problem giving his insight on this rather than to just post inane one-liners.

Also, the claim that he got the position just because he is a friend of Brazzo is patently absurd.
 

Deficient Mode

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Mar 25, 2011
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That is just utter bullcrap. And you know it.

If you think Hasan Salihamidzic goes about employing hs friends, without Hoeness and Rummenigge's approval, you're either being ignorant or deliberately obtuse for the sake of your argument (I'm betting its the latter).

Let me put in another way: he wouldn't have gotten the job ahead of more deserving candidates if they weren't friends. You can express this as "familiarity with Kovac" or whatever - and obviously Salihamidzic has better friends who didn't get the job, so it wasn't the only criteria - but that was what put Kovac over the top for the job.
 
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