GDT: 2/4/05 NHL & NHLPA Meetings

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VAN-HAB

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Sep 3, 2003
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ChiHawks468 said:
True, but my optimism is fading away quickly.
I understand and both NHL and NHLPA are really testing the fans patience just to play their cards. Ugly and dangerous decisions and actions....Shame on both :madfire:
 

Russian Fan

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Feb 27, 2003
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Right now, all the pressure is on the owners side because having a season or not means almost nothing financially for the players. A 35% paycheck of the contract does not worth caving on EVERY ASPECTS THE NHL WANTS THEM TOO.

While 50% of the ownership knows their market will be close to dead if the season is cancelled. The other 50% knows that they already loss a lot since they are big markets making money.

logically if there's still talk , it's because the owners want a season, simple as that because now more than 500 are playing elsewhere than the NHL.
 
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Russian Fan said:
Right now, all the pressure is on the owners side because having a season or not means almost nothing financially for the players. A 35% paycheck of the contract does not worth caving on EVERY ASPECTS THE NHL WANTS THEM TOO.

While 50% of the ownership knows their market will be close to dead if the season is cancelled. The other 50% knows that they already loss a lot since they are big markets making money.

logically if there's still talk , it's because the owners want a season, simple as that because now more than 500 are playing elsewhere than the NHL.

You keep telling yourself that.

The Players are squarely on the hotseat. The NHL has put forth a very meaningful and workable proposal with a fluctuating cap (can you say Luxury tax) and reinstituting salary arbitration.

Add to this the growing number of BIG NAME players that have said they would have no problem playing under a cap if the number was right.

Goodenow has to find the right number. It is his job. I think the Players are going to speak up en mass very very soon one way or the other.
 

417

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Feb 20, 2003
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Hedberg16 said:
I think what our (least) favourite blogger is saying makes some sense.

it makes alot of sense, whether or not it's true, who knows, but i'd rather accept that conclusion than Ted Saskins "no progress" spiel, he should of just walked off like Goodenow, instead of thinking were idiots
 

ChiHawks468

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Russian Fan said:
Right now, all the pressure is on the owners side because having a season or not means almost nothing financially for the players. A 35% paycheck of the contract does not worth caving on EVERY ASPECTS THE NHL WANTS THEM TOO.

While 50% of the ownership knows their market will be close to dead if the season is cancelled. The other 50% knows that they already loss a lot since they are big markets making money.

logically if there's still talk , it's because the owners want a season, simple as that because now more than 500 are playing elsewhere than the NHL.

There may be 500 players playing somewhere other than the NHL but most of them aren't making near what they would be if they were in the NHL.

I think the players are under more pressure than the owners. Don't forget, most of these owners made their fortunes doing something else. These teams are kinda like really expensive fantasy teams to some of them. That being said, they are still very competitive and want to make as much money as they can with whatever they take on. They are of the opinion that they are losing too much money the way things are currently and their experience tells them to either fix it or cut bait and move on. If the NHL went away, it would not be the end of the world to most, if not all these owners. They would certainly lose money, but they would still be worth a lot of money and would likely look for the next venture.

Now, to the players. With the exception of say the top 1/3 who have banked (or at least should have) a lot of coin already, these guy's livelihood's depend on them getting paid to play hockey now. The majority of these guys don't have millions in the bank or invested (making even more millions). It seems to me that the longer this goes, it is those players that will get more anxious and start to worry about the things we all do like paying the mortgage, etc. I know even the bottom half of these players make a lot of money, but it is relative, people have a tendancy to spend what they make (especially if they think there is plenty more where that came from due to long term contracts or upcoming free agency). As this group gets more and more anxious, they will be the ones that could turn the tide in this ordeal.

IMO, the players will be the first to blink in this one.
 

Russian Fan

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Biggest Canuck Fan said:
You keep telling yourself that.

The Players are squarely on the hotseat. The NHL has put forth a very meaningful and workable proposal with a fluctuating cap (can you say Luxury tax) and reinstituting salary arbitration.

Add to this the growing number of BIG NAME players that have said they would have no problem playing under a cap if the number was right.

Goodenow has to find the right number. It is his job. I think the Players are going to speak up en mass very very soon one way or the other.

Listen i'm not pro-player like you try to paint me on the corner.

Workable situation ?

5 scale-cap is workable for a player ? Come on now

- Individual cap
- rookie cap
- meaningless revenu sharing
- no ''real'' guarantee from the owners that every franchise will be ok with a 32M$ floor, meaning the owners can strategize to get a cap with less teams , meaning less job for the players.

& on & on.

About the players speaking, you don't hear much about the owners ? why ? they can't speak. Also some players can agreed on a specific cap but not on everything just in order to have a season & regret it after all. Players already lost 70-75% of their payroll so to lose a season or not , won't change much for them. Also more than 500 players are playing elsewhere meaning theyknow the season is dead unless the owners compromise on their hard stance.

Compromising DOES NOT MEAN CAVING for the owners. It means realizing that you are 2 to negotiate & that we're not in the 1900's where the owners dictate the way of life of their employees. Making millions or 7$ an hour mean nothing except for the fans that are envious.

Stop painting me as a pro-player because i'm not.
 

Russian Fan

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ChiHawks468 said:
There may be 500 players playing somewhere other than the NHL but most of them aren't making near what they would be if they were in the NHL.

I think the players are under more pressure than the owners. Don't forget, most of these owners made their fortunes doing something else. These teams are kinda like really expensive fantasy teams to some of them. That being said, they are still very competitive and want to make as much money as they can with whatever they take on. They are of the opinion that they are losing too much money the way things are currently and their experience tells them to either fix it or cut bait and move on. If the NHL went away, it would not be the end of the world to most, if not all these owners. They would certainly lose money, but they would still be worth a lot of money and would likely look for the next venture.

Now, to the players. With the exception of say the top 1/3 who have banked (or at least should have) a lot of coin already, these guy's livelihood's depend on them getting paid to play hockey now. The majority of these guys don't have millions in the bank or invested (making even more millions). It seems to me that the longer this goes, it is those players that will get more anxious and start to worry about the things we all do like paying the mortgage, etc. I know even the bottom half of these players make a lot of money, but it is relative, people have a tendancy to spend what they make (especially if they think there is plenty more where that came from due to long term contracts or upcoming free agency). As this group gets more and more anxious, they will be the ones that could turn the tide in this ordeal.

IMO, the players will be the first to blink in this one.

Sure those who only make 500,000$ for one season, are under pressure but for the most common player who make more than a 1M$ & have lost 70-75% of the season paycheck so far. Where's the pressure ? Some get paid 300,000$ & this is close to what some would make if they cave to what the owners want.

Sure the pressure & the frustration on the players is at an all-time high because they don't know even about next year but that doesn't it's more than the owners.
 

thinkwild

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This is where the hardball makes it tough on the squeemish. Deadlines have a wonderful way of focusing attention. If players accepted a high hard cap, could they get a season?

Waters said an interesting thing, i they go with a cap, and then go into binding arbitration over the numbers each cba renewal. The courts are forever involved.

War is ugly. Season seems an inevitable casualty.
 

mr gib

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thinkwild said:
This is where the hardball makes it tough on the squeemish. Deadlines have a wonderful way of focusing attention. If players accepted a high hard cap, could they get a season?

Waters said an interesting thing, i they go with a cap, and then go into binding arbitration over the numbers each cba renewal. The courts are forever involved.

War is ugly. Season seems an inevitable casualty.
squeemish is right - knob mckenzie still thinks there is another week to go - that ex flames owner on otr figures a deal will be done this weekend - war is ugly -
 

krandor

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Jan 28, 2005
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thinkwild said:
This is where the hardball makes it tough on the squeemish. Deadlines have a wonderful way of focusing attention. If players accepted a high hard cap, could they get a season?

Depends on the numbers, but if the players agree on a hard cap they could probably get just about anything else they wanted in the CBA negotiations.

IMO, here is what the NHLPA should do...

1) Offer a proposal with a hard cap with linkage
2) Make a list of about 5 other reasonable items that they really want like changes to arbitration, UFA, etc. Declare these 5 items NON-NEGOTIABLE in exchange for the cap.

I still think the NHLPA could get a sweet deal out of it and the owners get cost certainly.
 
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krandor said:
Depends on the numbers, but if the players agree on a hard cap they could probably get just about anything else they wanted in the CBA negotiations.

IMO, here is what the NHLPA should do...

1) Offer a proposal with a hard cap with linkage
2) Make a list of about 5 other reasonable items that they really want like changes to arbitration, UFA, etc. Declare these 5 items NON-NEGOTIABLE in exchange for the cap.

I still think the NHLPA could get a sweet deal out of it and the owners get cost certainly.
:bow: :bow:

Too bad Goodenow was on a plane watching Miracle on Ice when you posted this.
 

robcav

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Mar 9, 2004
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krandor said:
Depends on the numbers, but if the players agree on a hard cap they could probably get just about anything else they wanted in the CBA negotiations.

IMO, here is what the NHLPA should do...

1) Offer a proposal with a hard cap with linkage

The players may accept one concept but will never accept both. After the damage that this extended lockout has caused the league you could see revenues drop 50% next year so your player compensation cap which includes non salary items, by the way would also drop by 50 percent. So instead of a range from 32 to 42 or from 35 to 45 million, you will have a range from 16 to 21 million, assuming this years "cost certanty" level is 32 to 42million. Throw in the 2 million in player costs such as insurance and medical expenses and you are looking at a "salary cap" of 14 to 19 million. This is why the NHLPA will never accept a cap that is linked to revenue. If they were to accept this floating linkage it doesnt matter what points the players could win back. They would have already lost.
 

gobolt7

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Sep 24, 2003
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I am about as optimistic as anyone can be, and this time 24 hours ago, I was making plans to see a championship banner be raised within the next few weeks. Today for the first time in the whole process, I have lost my optimism. For whatever reason, I just dont see this happening anymore. And to me, the worst part is, I really dont care. Its not that I want to not care, because I am about as hard core a fan as you can get. I want more than anything to be able to say that I was wrong. I really hope a week from now, I am eating these words.
 

animalchin

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Jan 20, 2005
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The Long Road
snakepliskin said:

yeah, but the article is beyond ridiculous....


...calling hockey a redneck sport is like denying nascar is....

I realize nascar is a popular "sport", but come on. hockey is not a redneck sport, and never will be.

"A blue collar sport for middle class fans..." - well, maybe in the states, but in (my part of) Canada it amounts to a sport that all people play, for fun or otherwise.

"And that leaves an opening for the Fourth Major Team Sport. One of my readers (Dan from New York) argues that MTV's Real World/Road Rules Battle of the Sexes can take the spot: "I know a lot more about these athletes than the Eastern Europeans on strike." I'm with Dan. I can barely spell Teemu Selanne [Editor's note: he's Northern European, but you get the idea] much less pick him out of a lineup, but I can write 3,000 words on freaking Arissa sneaking into the women's Final 3. "

This paragraph speaks volumes about the author...The 'Eastern Europeans on Strike' are in fact players from many countries...but most of all are Canadians, not Eastern European who are not on strike at all, but being locked out....a little bit of a difference
 
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mr gib

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animalchin said:
yeah, but the article is beyond ridiculous....


...calling hockey a redneck sport is like denying nascar is....

I realize nascar is a popular "sport", but come on. hockey is not a redneck sport, and never will be.

"A blue collar sport for middle class fans..." - well, maybe in the states, but in (my part of) Canada it amounts to a sport that all people play, for fun or otherwise.

"And that leaves an opening for the Fourth Major Team Sport. One of my readers (Dan from New York) argues that MTV's Real World/Road Rules Battle of the Sexes can take the spot: "I know a lot more about these athletes than the Eastern Europeans on strike." I'm with Dan. I can barely spell Teemu Selanne [Editor's note: he's Northern European, but you get the idea] much less pick him out of a lineup, but I can write 3,000 words on freaking Arissa sneaking into the women's Final 3. "

This paragraph speaks volumes about the author...The 'Eastern Europeans on Strike' are in fact players from many countries...but most of all are Canadians, not Eastern European.
it echo's the non-hockey american perspective though - nascar = $$$ - the american perspective
 

skellart

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Jan 24, 2005
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Chattown
Bettman & Goodnow sittin in a tree-FOR 13 HOURS WITHOUT DOING A DAMN THING.

sorry but I'm out. I can't take this any more. besides, I have to go to sleep cause my son has a hockey game tomorrow. It's not the best game I've seen recently, it's the best game I've ever seen. You see, "NHL Big Shots" these kids play with heart. Thats something you know nothing about anymore.
 

jcab2000

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Mar 3, 2004
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Raleigh, NC
skellart said:
Bettman & Goodnow sittin in a tree-FOR 13 HOURS WITHOUT DOING A DAMN THING.

sorry but I'm out. I can't take this any more. besides, I have to go to sleep cause my son has a hockey game tomorrow. It's not the best game I've seen recently, it's the best game I've ever seen. You see, "NHL Big Shots" these kids play with heart. Thats something you know nothing about anymore.


It's silly to believe they didn't do anything. I'm sure there was a lot of progress. Just not quite enough.
 
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