Gary Bettman talks an Olympics dis, expansion rumors and whether we're going to see another lockout

[MNNumbers]

I'm pretty sure the Olympics is an owner/league issue that they're going to pin on players in the narrative when it's really a league thing.

And as for certain teams drowning in red ink....some teams in a 31 team league are always going to be in red. The problem is that it's almost always the same ones. That's also a league issue, they keep up clubs that were in the red and then unlike what any normal business would do (close up shop there or move), they try to force a bigger issue out of it. It would be like Walmart losing money by keeping a bunch of stores open in rural or smalltown American but instead of closing those unprofitable stores, they started pouring money into them from the stores earning money and expecting better results despite the demographic situation being the same.

Nalens -
Olympics is a player issue because it is the players who want to go, and the ownership won't let them. So, the players will raise the issue.

Teams in the red....I agree with what you said, to some degree. However, the last time, Bettman said that "We are still paying the players too much" and the only reason for that is that the FLO, CAR, ARZ of the league are drowning. You are correct in that they could move them to, perhaps QUE, which would eliminate one low-revenue outlier, and replace it with a middle-0f-the-road team. But, again, that has problems. Because QUE would bring in more local revenue than ARZ, then the salary floor goes up next year because league-wide HRR went up as well. So, for all the teams on the red/black fringe, they would have about 2M (just guessing here) more expenditures. Some might not want that. So, to the league, relocation is not the wonderful bed of roses that it looks like to some people.

 

[lomiller1]

The NHL survived without a cap for 87 years

The NHL did just fine financially back when sports leagues could get away with collusion. Once it could no longer do so nearly every team was bleeding red ink nearly all the time.

Having 15 or 30 teams shouldn't impact the enjoyment of the sport.

The NHL didn't have 15 financially viable teams before the cap. It didn't even have 10. Even if it contract to 10 that would have just driven up individual teams pay-roles so there only would have been 2-3 financially viable teams.

 

[lomiller1]

Of course. But let's be honest. A place like your team, my team, LA, Chicago. We always get free agents no mater what.

With a cap maybe. Without one neither team had a lot of success either on the ice or financially. Without a cap LA is on borrowed time for even having a team and while Chicago probably keeps theirs it'd be a bottom feeder that can't afford to play with the big boys.

 

[Melrose Munch]

With a cap maybe. Without one neither team had a lot of success either on the ice or financially. Without a cap LA is on borrowed time for even having a team and while Chicago probably keeps theirs it'd be a bottom feeder that can't afford to play with the big boys.

The NHL did just fine financially back when sports leagues could get away with collusion. Once it could no longer do so nearly every team was bleeding red ink nearly all the time.



The NHL didn't have 15 financially viable teams before the cap. It didn't even have 10. Even if it contract to 10 that would have just driven up individual teams pay-roles so there only would have been 2-3 financially viable teams.

Chicago was in the black even during the dark era. I don't believe the second largest media market would fail. The problem markets in hockey are the problem markets in the other sports as well.

 

[SunDancer]

Well that’s just a bunch of statements begging to be misinterpreted.

“You don’t expand to be symmetrical” is not the same as being willing to create further asymmetry through expansion.

In other words ... sometimes symmetry is important ... and sometimes it isn't.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Gary already laying the blame for the next lockout at the feet of the NHLPA. Anyone who thinks there won't be another lockout is fooling themselves.

 

[edog37]

The NHL survived without a cap for 87 years until they made some ill advised business decisions in the south and south west. It shouldn't matter how many teams this league has because until we have the big tv contract, that means nothing. That should be the goal of everyone involved. Having 15 or 30 teams shouldn't impact the enjoyment of the sport.
Exactly. That pens team that won last year had the worst defense of any cup winnder since 2000.

The NHL had no cap but also had lower player salaries until Gretzky was traded to the Kings. I am not sure what you mean by "big TV contract", but the NHL is currently on its biggest TV contract ever. If you are talking NFL money, forget it, will never occur & frankly don't care either.....

The Pens didn't have a flashy defensemen on the roster after Letang went down, but they closed out the Cup with consecutive shutouts. The Wings & Avs were merely the best of the dead puck era, so that's not saying much.....their product was no better than today's....

 

[edog37]

I would claim that "in the world" teams like the 90s Red Wings and Avs were more appealing than any of the current products.

Disagree. They were merely the best of the dead puck era....

 

[ottawah]

Nalens -
Olympics is a player issue because it is the players who want to go, and the ownership won't let them. So, the players will raise the issue.

The players could have gone, but it was not that nearly as important to the players as to how much money they can make, so they said no. The same statement could be applied to the league as well. So its not solely at the feet of either, and it is an issue they will both want to address within the next CBA, 2 years before the next olympics.

 

[Albatros]

Disagree. They were merely the best of the dead puck era....

If you look at the Red Wings rosters of that era: Chelios, Datsyuk, Fedorov, Fetisov, Hašek, Hull, Larionov, Lidström, Murphy, Robitaille, Shanahan, Yzerman... Merely?

 

[Tawnos]

In other words ... sometimes symmetry is important ... and sometimes it isn't.

No.

Symmetry is always important, but is not a good enough reason on its own for expansion.

 

[MNNumbers]

The players could have gone, but it was not that nearly as important to the players as to how much money they can make, so they said no. The same statement could be applied to the league as well. So its not solely at the feet of either, and it is an issue they will both want to address within the next CBA, 2 years before the next olympics.

Players could only have gone by breaking their individual contracts and thus ending (in the pragmatic sense) their NHL careers. So, you are right, that is a money issue. But, it's no small money issue. Effectively, the NHL brass locked the players out of the Olympics.

NHL brass: Under the terms offered by IOC and IIHF, there is NO, repeat NO financial benefit to the league to having its players there. That's why Bettman is quoted (in the OP of the thread) as reminding everyone that the NHL is not allowed to use the footage of Crosby's goal in 2010. He is appropriately unhappy about that, and needs better financial terms. So, as currently arranged, it's a no go for the owners.

This disagreement (the players want to go, the owners don't) is one sticking point of the present CBA, and I look for there to be a work stoppage as a result of this and all the other sticking points as well.

 

[SunDancer]

No.

Symmetry is always important, but is not a good enough reason on its own for expansion.

Clearly symmetry is important to the NHL. That's also why nobody is taking Bettman seriously now that he's trying to downplay its significance. Sure, symmetry alone isn't a reason for expansion but that's beside the point. The NHL is interested in expansion, they weren't satisfied with the last round of bids and everyone knows they'll put a team in the west when they get the chance.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Remember, the NHL tried to negotiate and were willing to bend if the IOC gave them a "sponsor" status that would permit them use of logo and media. So they weren't asking too much, not demands of heavy monetary compensation. The IOC gave them a flat refusal. The arrogant IOC are not reasonable people. I am very much enjoying watching them scramble to find hosts with the free world turning their backs on them.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The NHL had no cap but also had lower player salaries until Gretzky was traded to the Kings. I am not sure what you mean by "big TV contract", but the NHL is currently on its biggest TV contract ever. If you are talking NFL money, forget it, will never occur & frankly don't care either.....

The Pens didn't have a flashy defensemen on the roster after Letang went down, but they closed out the Cup with consecutive shutouts. The Wings & Avs were merely the best of the dead puck era, so that's not saying much.....their product was no better than today's....

200 million a year is peanuts. The recent NBA contract is where the NHL should be by now.

 

[Tawnos]

Clearly symmetry is important to the NHL. That's also why nobody is taking Bettman seriously now that he's trying to downplay its significance. Sure, symmetry alone isn't a reason for expansion but that's beside the point. The NHL is interested in expansion, they weren't satisfied with the last round of bids and everyone knows they'll put a team in the west when they get the chance.

It isn’t “beside the point.” It’s the entire point of what he said.

 

[SunDancer]

It isn’t “beside the point.” It’s the entire point of what he said.

Coming from Bettman, it's meaningless. It's more of the same charade he put up before LV got its team. "We're not expanding. Oh, by the way, we're expanding."

 

[ottawah]

Players could only have gone by breaking their individual contracts and thus ending (in the pragmatic sense) their NHL careers. So, you are right, that is a money issue. But, it's no small money issue. Effectively, the NHL brass locked the players out of the Olympics..

The players had an offer to go from the league. Extend the CBA by one more year (to 2023) and nullify the ability of the players to have early (2021) termination of the CBA.

The players refused.

So obviously the Olympics is less important to the players than getting out from under the current CBA two years earlier.

Or in other words .... Lockout 2021 (I thought it was 2019, but looking closer it appears to be 2021).

 

[gstommylee]

2021 would be a terrible year to do a lockout especially with #32 team playing by then. Trying to grow that new team only to damage it due to workstoppage.

 

[powerstuck]

2021 would be a terrible year to do a lockout especially with #32 team playing by then. Trying to grow that new team only to damage it due to workstoppage.

Unless you put that team in a market that will support it no matter what.

 

[Burke the Legend]

What is the players' big grievance these days anyway? Escrow still? Because they don't understand math very well? Or is this all noise from Fehr the limousine marxist spoiling for a fight to justify his pay?

 

[Tawnos]

Coming from Bettman, it's meaningless. It's more of the same charade he put up before LV got its team. "We're not expanding. Oh, by the way, we're expanding."

The other comments about expansion are meaningless, and I said so, but I don’t think that is. After 20+ years watching him as commissioner, I think I’m pretty good at separating the politician-speak from when something he says rings true to what he really thinks.

 

[zeke]

What is the players' big grievance these days anyway? Escrow still? Because they don't understand math very well? Or is this all noise from Fehr the limousine marxist spoiling for a fight to justify his pay?

It's amazing when you think about it. The Players may well force a lockout for no actual reason at all.

Like they did last time.

 

[varsaku]

Unless you put that team in a market that will support it no matter what.

That's clearly not happening. Bettman seems set on semetry and the only markets available in the west are new hockey markets.

 

[edog37]

If you look at the Red Wings rosters of that era: Chelios, Datsyuk, Fedorov, Fetisov, Hašek, Hull, Larionov, Lidström, Murphy, Robitaille, Shanahan, Yzerman... Merely?

Yes, the best of the dead puck era. We aren't talking the 80s Oilers here...