Gary Bettman: 25 years and counting
- Thread starter Fenway
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Icedog2735
Registered User
I'd be interested to see the numbers spelling this out. Attendance and TV viewership have seemed fairly consistent for a while.
This is all well an good but the players like to avoid smaller market canadian teams. Let's be honest, why hasn't canada won the cup in 25 years?
Bixby Snyder
IBTFAD
mouser
Business of Hockey
Oddly, this is not necessarily true. If the total league revenue goes up, and the revenue sharing % of league revenue remains the same, then turning a “lower” revenue team into a “higher” revenue team could actually increase the $’s that Boston has to contribute to the revenue sharing pool.
The revenue sharing pool is a mostly fixed % of total league revenue. Receiving revenue sharing is not based on whether teams are profitable, it’s based on how much revenue they bring in.
Bixby Snyder
IBTFAD
edog37
Registered User
one players strike and 3 lockouts. When did any of the other three miss as much time?
mouser
Business of Hockey
NHL was “late” to resolve the salary cap issue that the NFL and NBA had already settled. The owners blinked in 1994-95, overruling Bettman’s recommendations, and settled the lockout without a cap.
It took another decade and a lost 2004-05 season to get the inevitable salary cap implemented.
I wonder if the Nordiques and Jets might have had a better opportunity to stay had a salary cap been implemented in 1994.
He has overseen three lockouts including one fully lost season
He had some horrendous vetting done on Spano with the Islanders to go with poor due diligence of Del Biaggio
The Arizona file has also been a gong show for years now, peaking around the Balsille insanity.
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
I've said it before (and in fact I just so happened to say it in another board a few moments ago), I'll say it again....
I'm not a Bettman hater by any stretch, and even view some criticisms of him as kind of ridiculous when he's really just serving as the effigy to protect the owners from fan outrage over matters that they want, but that being said I have an even harder time to credit him for the growth in the league's revenues during his tenure. During the same time frame, the revenues of the NFL, MLB, and NBA all grew at an even greater pace, so to me it just looks like the NHL's successes over the past quarter century have been part of an overall increase in sports revenues in general.
I'm not a Bettman hater by any stretch, and even view some criticisms of him as kind of ridiculous when he's really just serving as the effigy to protect the owners from fan outrage over matters that they want, but that being said I have an even harder time to credit him for the growth in the league's revenues during his tenure. During the same time frame, the revenues of the NFL, MLB, and NBA all grew at an even greater pace, so to me it just looks like the NHL's successes over the past quarter century have been part of an overall increase in sports revenues in general.
DowntownBooster
Registered User
I know you like to use that refrain a lot MM but I would also ask you when was the last time St. Louis won the Stanley Cup? They've been in the league since 1967. When was the last time Philadelphia won? 1975 was it?
You like to point out a Canadian team hasn't won the cup in 25 years when Montreal did so in 1993. The New York Rangers (playing in the largest U.S. market there is) won the cup in 1994, which was only one year after Montreal, and haven't won it since.
The New York Islanders have not won the cup since 1983 and Buffalo has never won despite joining the league in 1970. There are also a number of other American teams that have never won the Stanley Cup either.
Does the fact that for a number of years there were only 6 Canadian teams out of 30 not make the odds slimmer that one of them would win? Most people would acknowledge those odds but for some reason you think it boils down to players not wanting to play in Canada or for a small market team.
Is there a remote possibility that the reason a Canadian team hasn't won the cup in 25 years, aside from the odds of 6 or 7 Canadian teams out of 30/31 teams in total, is due to poor management decisions made during those years? Some of the Canadian teams like Toronto and Winnipeg have been showing improvement as of late by drafting and developing through good management and may be in a position to challenge for the cup sooner rather than later. Edmonton has Connor McDavid which will make the future brighter there and Calgary isn't far off.
Although you are correct by stating that no Canadian team has won the cup for 25 years, I would point put there are an equal number of American teams that have not won it either despite all the players supposedly wanting to play in the U.S.
Getting back to the topic at hand, I for one think that Gary Bettman has done a very good job as commissioner of the NHL. I support what's been done to grow the game in the southern U.S. as hockey is a great sport and the more fans there are, the better it is for the league as a whole.
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But 4 canadian teams have been to the final since 2005-06, and no one has one won it. The management of Canadian teams has gotten worse over that time frame as well. Even this year, somehow Edmonton and Calgary missed the playoffs (again). It's not just the players, it's the management.I know you like to use that refrain a lot MM but I would also ask you when was the last time St. Louis won the Stanley Cup? They've been in the league since 1967. When was the last time Philadelphia won? 1975 was it?
You like to point out a Canadian team hasn't won the cup in 25 years when Montreal did so in 1993. The New York Rangers (playing in the largest U.S. market there is) won the cup in 1994, which was only one year after Montreal, and haven't won it since.
The New York Islanders have not won the cup since 1983 and Buffalo has never won despite joining the league in 1970. There are also a number of other American teams that have never won the Stanley Cup either.
Does the fact that for a number of years there were only 6 Canadian teams out of 30 not make the odds slimmer that one of them would win? Most people would acknowledge those odds but for some reason you think it boils down to players not wanting to play in Canada or for a small market team.
Is there a remote possibility that the reason a Canadian team hasn't won the cup in 25 years, aside from the odds of 6 or 7 Canadian teams out of 30/31 teams in total, is due to poor management decisions made during those years? Some of the Canadian teams like Toronto and Winnipeg have been showing improvement as of late by drafting and developing through good management and may be in a position to challenge for the cup sooner rather than later. Edmonton has Connor McDavid which will make the future brighter there and Calgary isn't far off.
Although you are correct by stating that no Canadian team has won the cup for 25 years, I would point put there are an equal number of American teams that have not won it either despite all the players supposedly wanting to play in the U.S.
Getting back to the topic at hand, I for one think that Gary Bettman has done a very good job as commissioner of the NHL. I support what's been done to grow the game in the southern U.S. as hockey is a great sport and the more fans there are, the better it is for the league as a whole.
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DowntownBooster
Registered User
The league has become much more balanced over the last two decades in regards to the competitive level between all teams. Aside from a few cases, there is only a small degree of separation between the top teams and those below them. Unlike the 70's and 80's, there is no one team that dominates the league anymore. I would credit the level of competitiveness to Gary Bettman with the implementation of the salary cap, revenue sharing, capping rookie salaries and restrictions on free agency.
In regards to Canadian teams making it to the finals since the new millennium, having 4 teams - Calgary (2004), Edmonton (2006), Ottawa (2007) and Vancouver (2011) - make it that far isn't that bad of a record. Winnipeg almost made it this year but were upset by the surprisingly good expansion Vegas Golden Knights. I would say the end result of those Stanley Cup finals had less to do with them being Canadian teams and more to do with the winning team just being a little better when it counted.
An example of how competitive the league has become over the last decade or so, is looking at the inability of teams to repeat as champions with the exception of the Pittsburgh Penguins the previous two seasons. In fact, two teams that won the Stanley Cup in recent times - Carolina Hurricanes (2006) and Los Angeles Kings (2014) - failed to even qualify for the playoffs the following season.
I think we both agree that bad management plays a role in a team's inability to contend for a playoff spot or having a shot at competing for the Stanley Cup. I believe that plays a much larger role than players not wanting to play in Canada or for a small market team.
I harp on this because that's what we see in the media. It's not like it's being pulled out of thin air. But we agree about management, which is just making things worse. I'm not the only who believes this.The league has become much more balanced over the last two decades in regards to the competitive level between all teams. Aside from a few cases, there is only a small degree of separation between the top teams and those below them. Unlike the 70's and 80's, there is no one team that dominates the league anymore. I would credit the level of competitiveness to Gary Bettman with the implementation of the salary cap, revenue sharing, capping rookie salaries and restrictions on free agency.
In regards to Canadian teams making it to the finals since the new millennium, having 4 teams - Calgary (2004), Edmonton (2006), Ottawa (2007) and Vancouver (2011) - make it that far isn't that bad of a record. Winnipeg almost made it this year but were upset by the surprisingly good expansion Vegas Golden Knights. I would say the end result of those Stanley Cup finals had less to do with them being Canadian teams and more to do with the winning team just being a little better when it counted.
An example of how competitive the league has become over the last decade or so, is looking at the inability of teams to repeat as champions with the exception of the Pittsburgh Penguins the previous two seasons. In fact, two teams that won the Stanley Cup in recent times - Carolina Hurricanes (2006) and Los Angeles Kings (2014) - failed to even qualify for the playoffs the following season.
I think we both agree that bad management plays a role in a team's inability to contend for a playoff spot or having a shot at competing for the Stanley Cup. I believe that plays a much larger role than players not wanting to play in Canada or for a small market team.
Llama19
Registered User
Now 25 years in, Bettman is never off as NHL commissioner
To quote:
"Friends come to accept the glow of the TV screen set up so Bettman can keep an eye on games, ready to go from enjoying a nice meal to running a multibillion-dollar business and back again. The commissioner of a storied league with 24 teams in the United States and seven in Canada doesn't put his work on hold for life or vice versa. When his 11-year-old grandson, Matthew, preferred to hang out with him in Tampa during All-Star weekend, he brought him along for meetings.
"They all blend together because I'm never off," Bettman said. "It's all part of what I do and who I am."
When he was there (in Las Vegas) in November 2016 for the unveiling of the team name, Bettman was booed by the crowd and could not have cared less.
"No, no, keep the booing," he told the crowd. "That proves you're now an NHL city.""
Source: abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/now-25-years-bettman-off-nhl-commissioner-55428224
To quote:
"Friends come to accept the glow of the TV screen set up so Bettman can keep an eye on games, ready to go from enjoying a nice meal to running a multibillion-dollar business and back again. The commissioner of a storied league with 24 teams in the United States and seven in Canada doesn't put his work on hold for life or vice versa. When his 11-year-old grandson, Matthew, preferred to hang out with him in Tampa during All-Star weekend, he brought him along for meetings.
"They all blend together because I'm never off," Bettman said. "It's all part of what I do and who I am."
When he was there (in Las Vegas) in November 2016 for the unveiling of the team name, Bettman was booed by the crowd and could not have cared less.
"No, no, keep the booing," he told the crowd. "That proves you're now an NHL city.""
Source: abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/now-25-years-bettman-off-nhl-commissioner-55428224
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Bettman's impact over the last 10-15 years will really be determined in about 10 years IMO.
The NHL is ultimately an entertainment product. It is in competition with other sports, and also with other forms of entertainment - everything from film to gaming.
I'm just speaking anecdotally, so please bear with the following. I was born in the mid-90's, which essentially means my most impressionable years to get hooked into the product were from 2000 - 2010. IIRC, the lockout actually nearly killed that interest, but it was cool to have hockey back afterwards. The next generation that falls between 2010 - 2020 also had a (shorter) lockout, and maybe have another coming up. But the entertainment world has changed immensely in those ten years.
Obviously not being in that demographic skews my view, but I don't think the NHL captivates that next generation the way it did for mine. I'm a lifelong hockey fan, as evidenced by my 15k+ posts here. My younger sibling, born 5 years after me, is not. Most of his friends are not. And my younger relatives currently in their early teens? Their entertainment consumption is totally different. It's all Fortnite or Youtube. The closest they come to paying attention to sports is the occasional NBA highlights on Instagram.
When that generation - the post-Millenials - start to have earnings, I just don't see them paying much attention to hockey, short of a captivating Vegas-style run of success in a specific city/region. Bettman has done an okay job navigating some of the issues owners have dealt with, but he hasn't truly grown the game to be globally or even nationally compelling. Do people in places like Utah or Louisiana care about the NHL? Skipping the Olympics was a huge loss. I was chatting with a dude around my age from Maryland at a bar, and he was a huge sports fan, but could only name three NHL players before giving up. Crosby, Ovechkin and TJ Oshie. When I pushed, he got Kane, Holtby and "there's that good looking dude on New York". This guy told me he goes on ESPN, Bleacher Report, Yahoo Sports and the NBA and NFL apps on his phone every day. And those are the only players he knows?
This is a ridiculously limited scope, I know. And applies to a large extent to all sports. But Bettman cannot be considered a successful commissioner when we look back ten years from now at his legacy if the O6 era fans that still have an undying loyalty to the game are not properly replaced. And right now I don't see that happening. That's also not accounting for what happens if the CTE stuff blows up.
The NHL is ultimately an entertainment product. It is in competition with other sports, and also with other forms of entertainment - everything from film to gaming.
I'm just speaking anecdotally, so please bear with the following. I was born in the mid-90's, which essentially means my most impressionable years to get hooked into the product were from 2000 - 2010. IIRC, the lockout actually nearly killed that interest, but it was cool to have hockey back afterwards. The next generation that falls between 2010 - 2020 also had a (shorter) lockout, and maybe have another coming up. But the entertainment world has changed immensely in those ten years.
Obviously not being in that demographic skews my view, but I don't think the NHL captivates that next generation the way it did for mine. I'm a lifelong hockey fan, as evidenced by my 15k+ posts here. My younger sibling, born 5 years after me, is not. Most of his friends are not. And my younger relatives currently in their early teens? Their entertainment consumption is totally different. It's all Fortnite or Youtube. The closest they come to paying attention to sports is the occasional NBA highlights on Instagram.
When that generation - the post-Millenials - start to have earnings, I just don't see them paying much attention to hockey, short of a captivating Vegas-style run of success in a specific city/region. Bettman has done an okay job navigating some of the issues owners have dealt with, but he hasn't truly grown the game to be globally or even nationally compelling. Do people in places like Utah or Louisiana care about the NHL? Skipping the Olympics was a huge loss. I was chatting with a dude around my age from Maryland at a bar, and he was a huge sports fan, but could only name three NHL players before giving up. Crosby, Ovechkin and TJ Oshie. When I pushed, he got Kane, Holtby and "there's that good looking dude on New York". This guy told me he goes on ESPN, Bleacher Report, Yahoo Sports and the NBA and NFL apps on his phone every day. And those are the only players he knows?
This is a ridiculously limited scope, I know. And applies to a large extent to all sports. But Bettman cannot be considered a successful commissioner when we look back ten years from now at his legacy if the O6 era fans that still have an undying loyalty to the game are not properly replaced. And right now I don't see that happening. That's also not accounting for what happens if the CTE stuff blows up.
edog37
Registered User
doesn't matter is the point. people will be angry for a little, but will tune right back in as soon as the puck is dropped.
edog37
Registered User
Bettman isn't judged by the other Big 3, he is being judged by his predecessors. On that basis, he's the greatest leader the league has ever had.
It's not about the other big-3. It's about the sustainability of the league's revenues going forward.
The NHL as it markets itself right now is not a league I would bet on being more successful in ten years than it is right now. Bettman is the CEO of the league, not the COO. He will be the one judged on the future of the league. Colin Campbell can be credited (ugh) for what he's doing with the game and the sport right now.
edog37
Registered User
Since we are talking about Bettman's era, compare the league to where it is now to where it was then. That's the point of the thread. He brought a provincial, niche league into the main stream.
Disagree that he brought it mainstream, but sure. The league is in a better spot now than it was when he started - largely due to what he did in the late 90's and early 00's southern/sun belt expansions. Those moves are paying off now; Nashville being the most prominent.
But in assessing Bettman's 25 year legacy, we have to go out another 10 years into the future to look at the whole thing. And I think we'll have a worse view of him then than we do now because the league's ability to penetrate untapped markets without teams has been so poor thus far.
Although who knows; maybe Seattle is another wicked success and the league captivates a whole generation of sports fans looking to get away from the politicization of the NBA and NFL. I don't know.
Bettman has positioned the NHL into a very great spot. For the most part the NHL is a gate driven league, drawing roughly 17,500 fans per game and over 94% capacity. Why this is important?..... eventually the TV contract bubble will burst, and the other big 3 leagues are way too dependent on TV revenues, heck the NFL teams don't have to sell one single ticket and they would make money lol. Not saying that the NHL is going to overtake the other 3, but they are positioned well when the bubble breaks. It is one of the best sports to watch live, so attendance will continue to be great.
He is judged by the big three and the I thought the goal was the large TV contract?
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