Post-Game Talk: Game 5: Nucks 3 @ Sens 0 | Can't live if living is without Nilsson

MS

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Who thought Burmistrov would push to be Horvat's competition rather than Virtanen/Boeser/Goldobin/etc.

Look forward to the return of difference maker Horvat.. sooner rather than later please..

Yeah ... it's easy to forget that he also finished last year on a 17-game goal-less drought. Needs to be a lot better.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Who thought Burmistrov would push to be Horvat's competition rather than Virtanen/Boeser/Goldobin/etc.

Look forward to the return of difference maker Horvat.. sooner rather than later please..
I wonder what it is about Horvats game that Green is not pleased about..?...I have noticed along with other posters here,t
Who thought Burmistrov would push to be Horvat's competition rather than Virtanen/Boeser/Goldobin/etc.

Look forward to the return of difference maker Horvat.. sooner rather than later please..
I wonder what it is about Horvats game that Green is not happy about ?..Not using his line mates enough?...I have noticed that Bo is a bit predictable as he's entering the offensive zone ....usually deciding the toe drag,or electing to take the shot (As a Canuck,Ryan Kesler was guilty of trying to do it 'by himself')
 

StreetHawk

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Sep 30, 2017
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Yeah ... it's easy to forget that he also finished last year on a 17-game goal-less drought. Needs to be a lot better.
I agree. Great first game. Just so so since.

Glad to see the twins had limited ice time in Ottawa. Didn't do anything.

Wonder how much rope green gives them before he takes away their offensive zone starts.
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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Insufficient doesnt began to describe it... the misuse and misunderstanding of how to to digest these numbers is incredible....

For starters... pairings need to be considered together... who did those 10 passes go to for Gudbranson? A forward? Hutton? Who got a thumbs up?
Numbers individually don't match the eye test. In pairings... closer. Next level is what lines were they backing?

Figure all that out and then you may have a legit stat

May want to look at who players get deployed against too. It's like people think this a beer league and everyone just moves closer to the gate as players go on the ice.
Sutter Gudbranson are almost solely being used against the other teams top line and in many defensive zone starts and PK roles.
 

MS

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May want to look at who players get deployed against too. It's like people think this a beer league and everyone just moves closer to the gate as players go on the ice.
Sutter Gudbranson are almost solely being used against the other teams top line and in many defensive zone starts and PK roles.

Absolutely people should look at roles, and as an example that Stecher-Pouliot pair last night was ridiculously sheltered.

Gudbranson isn't being used in the shutdown role though. That's been whatever pairing Tanev is on from the first shift of the first game of the season, usually with the Sutter line up front. Gudbranson-Del Zotto and now Gudbranson-Hutton are playing regular 2nd pairing minutes.
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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Absolutely people should look at roles, and as an example that Stecher-Pouliot pair last night was ridiculously sheltered.

Gudbranson isn't being used in the shutdown role though. That's been whatever pairing Tanev is on from the first shift of the first game of the season, usually with the Sutter line up front. Gudbranson-Del Zotto and now Gudbranson-Hutton are playing regular 2nd pairing minutes.
Admittedly I've been working and haven't watched last night's game yet. Will tonight....I'll take your word. You're analysis is usually pretty spot on.
I did a shift by shift of his Jets game and he was exclusively used in a shut down role, played a strong game and was lit up by the posters here about how crappy he was based on zone exits which weren't even accurate. I'll post at a later date as this is starting to annoy me and why I took the time to do it because I was starting to doubt my eyes and memory.
I think there's a lot of misinterpretations made around here from people that watch with distractions, don't take the time or understand the game and use boxscores and analytics as the base of their judgements.
I say this in defense of E.G. even though I know he was bad last year and hated the trade.
 

DL44

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I agree. Great first game. Just so so since.

Glad to see the twins had limited ice time in Ottawa. Didn't do anything.

Wonder how much rope green gives them before he takes away their offensive zone starts.

Outside his 2 goals, his line was not very good that game either. But 2 goals IS 2 goals... can't complain too much about that in the moment. But noteworthy now 5 games into the season of not playing as well with others.

Needs to play harder on the puck, on the boards, and simplify his game. Don't like how he gets pinned in our zone as often as he does...
Baertschi last yr was a nice fit... Baertschi this yr looks to have some more confidence and is trying to carry the puck a little more... He may no longer be a fit along side Horvat... If Horvat can simplify and defer the puck a bit more, Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser will flourish.

It's the way Burmistrov had success last night... pass it, then get to the front of the net... or support the puck battle and get it back to the point... or get open for a pass back. Just quicker movement of the puck...
 

mossey3535

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Feb 7, 2011
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That's not really sufficient to be indicative of anything, though. Hutton/Stecher didn't look awful/poor tonight like they did the last time Edler was in the lineup.

Yeah that was one thing I took away from the game - despite the first period the team as a whole played well, and the PP looked decent. Unlike the previous game where the PP incompetence alone probably lost the game for us.
 

y2kcanucks

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Aug 3, 2006
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Pretty much as expected, Gudbranson is terrible at moving the puck out of the zone.

But people like him because he was physical and good in the corners.


It's like one of those clear things where if you valued advanced stats you'd say Gudbranson is absolutely useless, and if you follow old-school hockey knowledge you'd think he was a good player. With the way the NHL is trending I would be desperately trying to trade Gudbranson to people who think he's good. Because todays NHL is moving in the direction of speed and quick transition hockey. It's the McDavid era, and you'll need speed speed speed. Guys like Hutton will come at a premium, just because of the way he transitions up the ice.


Also a big reason why I've been so quick to defend both Hutton and Stecher since they are young and they are good at transitioning the puck. We need that going forward.

Pretty much this. I don't understand why people think Gudbranson had a good game last night. He's quite useless out there. But hey, if other GM's share that perception it would be nice to get someone in here to take advantage of that.
 

DL44

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y2k on his #44 drum set.

Keep working it!
 
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vancityluongo

curse of the strombino
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Pretty much as expected, Gudbranson is terrible at moving the puck out of the zone.

But people like him because he was physical and good in the corners.

It's like one of those clear things where if you valued advanced stats you'd say Gudbranson is absolutely useless, and if you follow old-school hockey knowledge you'd think he was a good player. With the way the NHL is trending I would be desperately trying to trade Gudbranson to people who think he's good. Because todays NHL is moving in the direction of speed and quick transition hockey. It's the McDavid era, and you'll need speed speed speed. Guys like Hutton will come at a premium, just because of the way he transitions up the ice.

Also a big reason why I've been so quick to defend both Hutton and Stecher since they are young and they are good at transitioning the puck. We need that going forward.

Agreed. You raise an interesting point about Hutton's skillset being at a premium though; the NHL is cyclical like any other sport, and following the Pittsburgh Cup wins everyone is trying to emulate "SPEED" as a game plan. As if speed is suddenly much more important than it was before.

If Hutton has a few more games like last night where he looks dynamic and confident, I would quietly explore what the market for him is. If they can convince a team to part with a young, top-6 forward, that might be worth it. It's all about value extraction. As much as Gudbranson sucks, there might be more GM's in the league right now who could be dazzled by a few strong games from Hutton with sheltered minutes (or in this case, being partnered with a guy who handles the puck like a hand grenade) than there are dinosaurs who would trade something valuable for Gud.
 
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Bad Goalie

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Despite your loyalty to the Comets i think everything you say here is pure conjecture, based on a diehard fans' hypotheticals.

Think what you want. I reported on just how he coached the Comets for 4 seasons. He had the same approach every season. I watched them practice and watched every game. I sat on top of the bench and watched and listened to his approach with individual players and saw the same thins with every player and the team in general. When you are as close to the program as I have been you may have permission to call everything I say conjecture and hypotheticals.

It has nothing to do with diehard or fan bias. I take a very open minded approach to the team and the players individually and look at them as a scout would. If a player produces you will read my positive assessments and the negative in reverse. The same is true of the coaching. I stand by my assessments and your jibes and critiques won't cause me to waver one bit which also means I won't continue to argue the same topic with you indefinitely. You know what I've stated and that's how it goes.

On another noteYou say Marky has stunk, which must be pure conjecture on your part because his stats before the poor outing would question your opinion. This is an issue that fans last season warned would occur if he didn't get a chance to run a few games in a row instead of a bread crumb here and there. If all of a sudden he gets thrust onto the scene as a #1, how long can he actually go before wilting. we got the answer. Only more games will sort this out. As I have also said green has never ridden a goalie into the ground in the regular season. In the 2014-15 playoff season Eriksson actually started more regular season games than Markstrom . I keep reading here how the Comets were only good one year because Marky carried the team and made Green look good. The comets won their division and finished first overall in the conference as well and were second in the whole AHL. Then Marky got the net for the playoffs after establishing himself as the better option to go all out. He shouldered it well. He needs to have the confidence of his coach and mates. His MO is a weak one early. Then he shuts the door on most occasions. If he doesn't, get him out early and move on to the next game for him. This is all fact.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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I've been as hard as anyone on Derek Dorsett.....but he gets props from me for coming to aid of a teammate Burmistrov who almost had his head removed by Ottawa's tough guy Borowiecki......That response was missing from the lineup last year and have to concede that Dorsett brings it most nights.
 
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Ace of Hades

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I've been as hard as anyone on Derek Dorsett.....but he gets props from me for coming to aid of a teammate Burmistrov who almost had his head removed by Ottawa's tough guy Borowiecki......That response was missing from the lineup last year and have to concede that Dorsett brings it most nights.

I'd keep Dorsett in the lineup regularly . We need grit, toughness in the lineup especially in the bottom 6. He provides that, and protects our players at the best of his abilities. Plus he isn't bad at playing hockey.

Dorsett's minutes just need to be lowered and limited. Don't overplay him. Best thing about Dorsett is that he can change the momentum of the game with a hit or two to spark the team when they are down.
 

M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
May 25, 2014
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I've been as hard as anyone on Derek Dorsett.....but he gets props from me for coming to aid of a teammate Burmistrov who almost had his head removed by Ottawa's tough guy Borowiecki......That response was missing from the lineup last year and have to concede that Dorsett brings it most nights.

Couldnt agree more. Thought he had a fine game and really appreciated him sticking up for Burmur
 

Bad Goalie

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This may have worked last night since Hutton had such an excellent game and because it was their first game together with no pro scouting having been done on them.

I *guarantee* you that NHL pro scouting teams are looking at those stats and will figure out instantly that the only way the puck leaves the defensive zone is through Hutton, so will be double-teaming him on the forecheck to force turnovers or force Gudbranson to play the puck. Which is exactly what happened last year, and why that pairing ended up being shredded.

You can't get away with a defensive pairing in the NHL in 2017 where only one guy makes breakout passes or carries the puck.

Gudbranson occasionally has these games where he's bend-but-not-break defending 70% of the time and is 'noticeable' because he's breaking up some plays as a result, but he's really not a good player at all and will be exposed in the longer term.

Probably why since the beginning of the 2014-15 season every single Comets D-man has been responsible to make the first breakout pass and all of them skate the puck out when the space is there and often lead the rush into the offensive zone.

You know, that bad AHL coach not helping his players develop the skills necessary to play at the next level. Only problem is the payers he had back there were not going to make it to the NHL. Biega is the only Comets D-man to make the Canucks and other than Corrado, who they lost unnecessarily, no one else has had the innate skills to make it in the first place. That is really no surprise when you list out who they have been. Fedun and Sanguinetti were capable, but had apparently passed their expiration dates.

Subban is the most recent longshot. McEneny is on his first RFA contract and although he has developed into a dependable D-man with a knack for streak offense, he does not sparkle as a serious NHL hopeful.

They now have 2 more puppies who are the next in line to give it a try, Brisebois and Chatfield. It's Cull's responsibility to develop the guys Vancouver fans are sure should make it if their coach is good enough to develop young talent.

Personally, I haven't seen a serious D-prospect that failed to develop up to his hyped potential. They haven't had a real shiny object on D. Just hopeful projects who have gone the way of the potential chances of making the NHL statistics. Subbie is the next to try and be in the small % at his draft level that make the show.

There are 0 current forwards in the hopeful prospect mix right now. What is here are a few of the tweener could go either way guys in Goldobin, Boucher, Rodin, and maybe LaBate as a long shot.

The rest are either "ain't gonna happens" (Laplante and Cassels) or "too soon to tells" (Carcone, D'Aoust, and Molino , but none are real high prospects). A couple Vet call-ups like Goldobin and Boucher and will reveal the NHL chances for of these guys when they become responsible for the team offense. This lineup is those couple guys from being the 2015-16 team that dressed the army of PTOs. Demko and hopefully the D can raise them above the level of that group, who if you remember did make the playoffs.
 
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Breakers

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Last time I checked Gudbranson was barely breaking 40% CF his CF%Rel was -15% I believe. Which is really bad. His zone transitions are the worst on the team.

Yet, people think he's been good this year. Boggles my mind. The main thing people point to is him playing physical and retrieving pucks, maybe it's something that advanced stats really hasn't picked up on. Or maybe it's just completely useless, that is yet to be found out. Although his overall game, in advanced stats terms, suggests that his ability to retrieve pucks doesn't impact the game that well.

If we want to play high-event fun hockey, the type of hockey where we can "push the pace" trading Gudbranson for a high event center or defenseman might be the best option. Because people seem to value his play.

I don't get it either.

He is unable to get the puck onto a forwards stick. He uses the glass more than any other d-man on this team, which most of the time means loss of possession.

He's a Don Cherry special......
 

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