GDT: Game 3: Knights of the Round Table @ Golden Knights | 7:00 p.m. PDT | NBCSN

[PatrikBerglund]

Did OEL start yet another season underwhelmingly?

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

Did OEL start yet another season underwhelmingly?

He has in a way, but he also was injured during most of the pre-season so this would not have helped.

 

[Jakey53]

Sure, players have to take responsibility. But is the coach putting the players in a position to succeed? He might be asking too much of all the young forwards.

IF the vets were pulling their weight then maybe I would agree, but they sure the hell are not. We added vet players in the off season to help the vets already here to put the kids in position to succeed. So far I put this on the vets not the coaches or system. I'm sure the coaches will make adjustments that may help but they can only do so much.

 

[Matias Maccete]

I've always said that LV/AZ is going to be a classic rivalry that's grounded in a fundamental mutual respect. Very different from our rivalry with Los Angeles, for sure. Whatever happened during the game, I am really glad I got to see and be part of VGK's special opening night. It was unforgettable.

Yup very different, I hate the kings with a passion, the knights are a different story completely. I'll actually root for the knights when they're not playing the yotes.

Hey guys. Just wanted to say it was really classy how your team came out to salute the city of Las Vegas. I can't say I've personally ever seen anything like that and it was an incredibly classy move by your boys.



This tweet was also tremendous.

Whatever rivalry may rise between our two teams, I have always held a silent hope in my heart that the Coyotes could find some success so that hockey in our region of the country could thrive. You guys have a lot of potential, just need some adjustments to tie it all together. Looking forward to many AZ/LV tilts in the future!

Despite the fact that we got creamed it was a great event. Hopefully I'm able to catch more knights this year.

 

[Jakey53]

I agree the biggest problem is this team looks poorly coached and unstructured. Young forwards+offence first system=Oilers. We have flashes of brilliance on the rush entering their zone and with one timers by Perlini/Keller. Other than that, we are pretty bad.

Come on Cobra, you are starting to sound like the 5 or 6 posters that blamed DT for everything. If the players can't make a pass, accept a pass, make drop passes to no one in site, the goalie can't stop a beach ball, the D are turnover machines, the forwards don't back check, how the hell do you blame the coach? Look, the coaches have to take some blame, not doubt, but the majority lies with the players. I believe we will see a much improved team for our next game because what could go wrong has gone wrong.

 

[rt]

Come on Cobra, you are starting to sound like the 5 or 6 posters that blamed DT for everything. If the players can't make a pass, accept a pass, make drop passes to no one in site, the goalie can't stop a beach ball, the D are turnover machines, the forwards don't back check, how the hell do you blame the coach? Look, the coaches have to take some blame, not doubt, but the majority lies with the players. I believe we will see a much improved team for our next game because what could go wrong has gone wrong.

Your narrative is so completely backwards, Jake. 75% of this forum wanted Tippett out ASAP. You want to talk about a very vocal minority of only 5-6 posters? That's you and your friends. The Tippett apologists. Try all you like to attempt to minimize the vocal DT critics. They were the vast majority of fans on this board. I don't know how many times this can be clearly demonstrated for you. I've already proved it to you with a poll. If you want to be willfully disillusion and attempt to bend reality to your own personal preferences, there isn't much I can say to you. You are absolutely misrepresenting the reality of this message board during the last 12months.

 

[rt]

Did OEL start yet another season underwhelmingly?

Yes

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Come on Cobra, you are starting to sound like the 5 or 6 posters that blamed DT for everything. If the players can't make a pass, accept a pass, make drop passes to no one in site, the goalie can't stop a beach ball, the D are turnover machines, the forwards don't back check, how the hell do you blame the coach? Look, the coaches have to take some blame, not doubt, but the majority lies with the players. I believe we will see a much improved team for our next game because what could go wrong has gone wrong.

IF the vets were pulling their weight then maybe I would agree, but they sure the hell are not. We added vet players in the off season to help the vets already here to put the kids in position to succeed. So far I put this on the vets not the coaches or system. I'm sure the coaches will make adjustments that may help but they can only do so much.

So all the vets magically lost their ability to play? Is that what you would like us to believe?
You mentioned earlier that all these guys have played this system at one time or another. I'd like to know where that was (aside from the pond) because this is the least structured, most careless system I've ever witnessed at any high level,of play.
There is nearly no puck support and that is why we're seeing these struggles, people can try and pick out as many and whatever individuals they want and cast blame at them, but the truth is, it's team wide.
My hope is that the coaching staff implements some less aggressive support options, because (the way I see it) that's the only way we're going to be able to maintain possession and break out of our zone.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Come on Cobra, you are starting to sound like the 5 or 6 posters that blamed DT for everything. If the players can't make a pass, accept a pass, make drop passes to no one in site, the goalie can't stop a beach ball, the D are turnover machines, the forwards don't back check, how the hell do you blame the coach? Look, the coaches have to take some blame, not doubt, but the majority lies with the players. I believe we will see a much improved team for our next game because what could go wrong has gone wrong.

Jakey, I was not one of your "5 or 6 poster that blamed DT for everything." I see what Cobra sees. Whatever Tocchet is asking for, the players are having a hard time giving it to him. I

 

[Jakey53]

So all the vets magically lost their ability to play? Is that what you would like us to believe?
You mentioned earlier that all these guys have played this system at one time or another. I'd like to know where that was (aside from the pond) because this is the least structured, most careless system I've ever witnessed at any high level,of play.
There is nearly no puck support and that is why we're seeing these struggles, people can try and pick out as many and whatever individuals they want and cast blame at them, but the truth is, it's team wide.
My hope is that the coaching staff implements some less aggressive support options, because (the way I see it) that's the only way we're going to be able to maintain possession and break out of our zone.

When things snowball this is what happens. When players don't follow the system this is what you get. The system has nothing to do with the players not executing. How in hell can they not complete a simple pass, don't back check, drop pucks to no one, turn overs galore etc. etc. The system might be a bit much for the kids, but for the vets, come on, they have been around the block a few times and know what the hell is going on. I'm sure the coaches will adjust, or better adjust and the players will wake the hell up. I believe this team is much better than what they are showing at the moment.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Jakey, I was not one of your "5 or 6 poster that blamed DT for everything." I see what Cobra sees. Whatever Tocchet is asking for, the players are having a hard time giving it to him. I

I can't seem to edit as the screen goes grey. To continue: I of course give Tocchet credit for having a system, but the kids don't get it.

 

[Jakey53]

Jakey, I was not one of your "5 or 6 poster that blamed DT for everything." I see what Cobra sees. Whatever Tocchet is asking for, the players are having a hard time giving it to him. I

Why are they having a hard time giving it to him? Is it to much to ask to complete a pass, fore check, back check. We used the same system when we were ahead of the Ducks the first game and everything was hunky dory until they completely chocked. I think everything just snowballed from that game and most are hitting the panic button. The coaches have to take some blame, and Tocc did, but the players better start to be accountable, and I believe they will starting next game.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Why are they having a hard time giving it to him? Is it to much to ask to complete a pass, fore check, back check. We used the same system when we were ahead of the Ducks the first game and everything was hunky dory until they completely chocked. I think everything just snowballed from that game and most are hitting the panic button. The coaches have to take some blame, and Tocc did, but the players better start to be accountable, and I believe they will starting next game.

Didn't take long for a team to figure us out, did it? Pressure us and because there is seldom support, we cough it up.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Why are they having a hard time giving it to him? Is it to much to ask to complete a pass, fore check, back check. We used the same system when we were ahead of the Ducks the first game and everything was hunky dory until they completely chocked. I think everything just snowballed from that game and most are hitting the panic button. The coaches have to take some blame, and Tocc did, but the players better start to be accountable, and I believe they will starting next game.

Everything wasn't hunky dory in the Ducks Game. There were some great individual efforts but no real team play, IIRC from re-watching the game. Players don't seem to be comfortable in the scheme and so are taking it upon themselves to do more than they should. Poor passes come from unfilled expectations as to where teammates should be. Poor defensive coverage comes from a lack of confidence that a teammate will be where he should be.

Tocchet has not gotten his scheme across to the players and that is inexcusable. We aren't talking about Tikhonov's scheme for the Red Army Team. Nothing that complicated. The coaches just haven't done their jobs.

 

[Jakey53]

Didn't take long for a team to figure us out, did it? Pressure us and because there is seldom support, we cough it up.

I agree we have been a turn over machine, but many have nothing to do with support rather just stupid decisions and execution. Look at our FO%, it's pathetic. On a PP OEL drops a pass back to no Coyote within hell's half acre, he wasn't pressured, just looked like he was going for a skate. That is only one instance, and if you say that is the system we are trying to use then I guess you are right and it is the system. The blame has to be shared by all, but I put most of it on the vets who did not even look good in training camp. I hope this turns out to be a good learning experience.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Call me crazy, but I think it may take more than 3 games for the team to get the system down.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I agree we have been a turn over machine, but many have nothing to do with support rather just stupid decisions and execution. Look at our FO%, it's pathetic. On a PP OEL drops a pass back to no Coyote within hell's half acre, he wasn't pressured, just looked like he was going for a skate. That is only one instance, and if you say that is the system we are trying to use then I guess you are right and it is the system. The blame has to be shared by all, but I put most of it on the vets who did not even look good in training camp. I hope this turns out to be a good learning experience.

Yep, we're pathetic at the dot. Apparently they had no regard for FO% when they put this team together. The drop pass I believe you reference was to Keller who was apparently wiping his little snot nose, instead of being in position - not to worry, shit can does and will happen - that won't be the norm. As won't other errant passes, my bigger concern is positioning, or the lack thereof.

 

[Jakey53]

Everything wasn't hunky dory in the Ducks Game. There were some great individual efforts but no real team play, IIRC from re-watching the game. Players don't seem to be comfortable in the scheme and so are taking it upon themselves to do more than they should. Poor passes come from unfilled expectations as to where teammates should be. Poor defensive coverage comes from a lack of confidence that a teammate will be where he should be.

Tocchet has not gotten his scheme across to the players and that is inexcusable. We aren't talking about Tikhonov's scheme for the Red Army Team. Nothing that complicated. The coaches just haven't done their jobs.

Maybe you are right, I'm tired of talking about it after only three games. I just don't see how anyone can blame the system when Demers gives a puck directly to a opposition player resulting in a goal, Gogo consistently giving the puck away, OEL skating like he is in quick sand, and these are only a few examples. Any who, I think the demons have left the building and we will see a much improved team next game.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Call me crazy, but I think it may take more than 3 games for the team to get the system down.

Oh you're just crazy!

Seriously, I agree, but I just hope the system doesn't let them down.

 

[Jakey53]

Yep, we're pathetic at the dot. Apparently they had no regard for FO% when they put this team together. The drop pass I believe you reference was to Keller who was apparently wiping his little snot nose, instead of being in position - not to worry, **** can does and will happen - that won't be the norm. As won't other errant passes, my bigger concern is positioning, or the lack thereof.

I agree that positioning is a big concern, but when you don't have your head in the game at the NHL level this is what happens. Execution, execution, execution. Where have we all heard that. If you are not in the right position you can't execute. I'm not as concerned as most, not yet anyway. We only have one way to go.

 

[TheLegend]

I can't seem to edit as the screen goes grey. To continue: I of course give Tocchet credit for having a system, but the kids don't get it.

The edit function brings up the post in a separate mini window which greys out the page your on under it. If you are on a mobile device it can get lost easily. You just have to scroll around to find it. I ran into the same thing.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

We really need Chychrun back so we can hopefully break up that Gogo Demers pairing, what a mess those two are together

 

[Jakey53]

The edit function brings up the post in a separate mini window which greys out the page your on under it. If you are on a mobile device it can get lost easily. You just have to scroll around to find it. I ran into the same thing.

Thanks, I had the same problem.

 

[BUX7PHX]

One thing that is a little frustrating to me (and this stems primarily from the blown leads in the first two games):

In every other sport, you know who you want out there in crunch time and what plays or calls to run to give the best chance of hitting your objective. In baseball, you identify who your best reliever is to hang on to a lead, given the scenario. You know who is able to pinch hit when you need to get a guy on base. Football - you have certain play packages to gain traction in moving the ball down the field, as well as preventing it. Granted, hockey does not always follow similar principles as I listed above, but it feels like we are just trying to go with the flow moreso than having a battle plan in mind.

I get that Tocchet is still learning the whos and whats of our team, but to me, that is the first thing that you identify - who are your best players for offense or defense and whom do you trust to play within the system properly when the game is in crunch time or in those moments when momentum shifts one way or the other?

So I get what Jakey is saying regarding the veterans to lead and do what veterans do, but it also doesn't appear that the coaching staff has also played its part in identifying the proper players and proper style in those scenarios either. We can choose to play up tempo and choose when to play a little more control. It just doesn't appear that everyone is quite on the same page for when to and when not to play that way.

 

[RemoAZ]

When things snowball this is what happens. When players don't follow the system this is what you get. The system has nothing to do with the players not executing. How in hell can they not complete a simple pass, don't back check, drop pucks to no one, turn overs galore etc. etc. The system might be a bit much for the kids, but for the vets, come on, they have been around the block a few times and know what the hell is going on. I'm sure the coaches will adjust, or better adjust and the players will wake the hell up. I believe this team is much better than what they are showing at the moment.

You know what can cause those simple mistakes? Over-thinking instead of just playing. You could tell Tocc REALLY wanted that first game. Maybe he is micro-managing their play and is in their heads too much. I don't think that's a stretch when you see them scratching players and sending them down right away. It reeks of desperation when there's no need for that right now. Tocc likes to say winning is hard in the NHL. You know what else is? Coaching in the NHL. I used to think the last guy didn't like to develop the young guys because it was a lot more work than just plugging in a shitty vet. It's going to take a ton of effort to get his system in place and all these young players on the same page. That will take time and will bring a lot of losses. When you hear everyone in the organization talk from the owner on down, they don't seem to have accepted that yet. They are already f***ing with Strome because of it. Let's hope it ends there.