GDT: Game 3: Knights of the Round Table @ Golden Knights | 7:00 p.m. PDT | NBCSN

[Jakey53]

Still early, but I'm inclined to wholeheartedly agree - we're witnessing some very good and excellent hockey players look foolish and I'm NOT talking about the lads

Yup, the vets are not leading by example.

 

[Jakey53]

Crouse is very strong. I'm surprised how much more he's been able to impose his will physically this year so far.

I'm not. Love his game.

 

[Jakey53]

Havent gotten through the thread yet, so sorry if im repeating whats been said. Is everyone in agreement Rantaa isnt 100%. Whether that's health or conditioning?

Louie made me feel better about him being a backup.

The system is not close to being in place yet. It looks like there are two different pieces to the system, the breakouts (1st pass, neutral zone setup) and the defensive assignment (forwards and defensemen playing high up in their own zone) that are not in synch at all. The forwards always look a step ahead of the play on the breakout, and the defensemen seem to be playing pressure a couple feet too far in front of our goal. Looking forward to the scheme to statt clicking.

PK has been the best part about the team. PP is either abysmal because of zone entries, or dominant because the puck stays in the offensive zone for more then 10 seconds.

Forwards need to play tighter coverage. Defensemen need to play more in a zone. Everyone needs to actually play the boards. All of this started happening in the third and it looked better.

Detroit should be another win. Lets actually get the win and build from there.

Look, these players all have played this system some where some time. Tocc's system in not unique, but it might be the wrong system for this team or it may not. The players have to take responsibility here as they are the ones who or not executing. I mean, you can't complete a 10' pass or hold on to the puck or throw the puck away a the first sound of footsteps. The vets have to lead the kids here and lead by example.

 

[Jakey53]

So now Tocchet thinks they're out of shape and that's on him. Is that because he's spending all his time trying to teach a ridiculous "system" that has a complete lack of regard for puck support? Or is the support lacking because the system is inherently difficult positionally?

Give Vegas all the credit in the world, they embarrassed the hell,out of us. There was no courtesy of being taken to the wood shed, we were beaten in front of a national audience. But, my concern is seeing what appears to be an offense first approach and that just won't work imo. All teams currently need to do is pressure us and we collapse and look like rats on a sinking ship.

We only looked better in the third because the Knights had the game in the bag and let up some.

I don't blame the system, rather the players. They all know the system, but calling his players out of shape really surprised me. I find it hard to believe players come to camp out of shape now a days.

 

[Jakey53]

I agree, his offense first system might be a problem. We don't have the talent and more importantly the experienced players on the Penguins roster. The Penguins can play fast but stay solid on the forecheck and in the neutral zone. To turn this around, we need solid goal tending to start. Past that the team as a whole has to be much better without the puck on D, and in all 3 zones. This will force some turnovers and put us in a position that when we get the puck we can actually move it the ice more effectively and not be in helter skelter mode. This will require a defense first mentality which is the opposite of Tocc's system.

I don't care what system you play, but you will never win with crappy goal tending, turnovers in all three zones, and the list goes on. We can't even win a FO to gain possession, and that is where it all starts. The players have to take full responsibility for their poor performance thus far. They betters look in the mirror.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

We played well in Game 1, deserved to win that one...but let off the gas and unfortunately we haven't been able to get the foot back on the gas at all in the last 2 games where we've looked terrible.

We're "turnover" machines out there...you could be absolutely drunk if you had to take a drink every time we turned the puck over, you'd be passed out in the first 10 mins.

Schenn isn't good, KConn had a really bad game and OEL/Hammer seemingly don't work well together and I noticed that they had OEL w/Demers in the 3rd...so 3 games in and we've lost our top pair already, never a good sign.

We need Chychrun back in the worst way and can we please trade w/Vegas to replace Schenn.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I'm laughing so hard reading these posts. Just a few days ago everyone was a happy camper, and now we are moaning and groaning. I thought we would be 500 at this stage. Last night Raanta was the lone wolf here. If he could have made a save, like good goalies do, this could have been a different story. Once we got down early it started to snowball and the whole team lost any resemblance of structure. I would rather this happen now than later in the year. We only have one way to go.

Perhaps you haven’t been watching. It’s one thing to lose because the team was outplayed or unlucky. It’s another thing to simply be outclassed by a powerhouse team. This isn’t either.

What I see is a team with no structure, playing pond hockey. The players don’t support each other and just barrel up the ice. On the PP they make drop passes to players 50 feet behind them. Even strength and on the PP players play a one on one game and get double teamed and stripped of the puck in short order.

Laugh all you want but this is a coaching issue, not a string of bad games by a young team.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Missing out on McEichel is going to haunt the Coyotes for years. This is brutal.

The Sabres aren't doing very well even with Eichel, and the Oilers got better as a team and organization so you can't just say it was McDavid that saved them. The whole idea of a single player elevating an entire team is the hockey community's romantic ideal, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Does 1 goal make up for 2 1/2 periods of being terrible?

The thing that made me a little less manic depressive about the team was that they improved as the game went on, which was decidedly not the case in the first two games. There is a hint that things could get better. Maybe that's grasping at straws but it's all I've got right now.

Havent gotten through the thread yet, so sorry if im repeating whats been said. Is everyone in agreement Rantaa isnt 100%. Whether that's health or conditioning?

I think last night was a combination of both, plus the mental pressure of being in Vegas during that emotional home opener. And honestly, he played pretty great the game before, so I just think it was an off night for him. Every goalie has one or two in a season. I think he'll get past it.

Laugh all you want but this is a coaching issue, not a string of bad games by a young team.

Again, I think it's both. The sense I'm getting from this team is that there isn't an identity, something that has gelled them together. In a way, it still looks like a team in training camp with a bunch of guys struggling to stand out without having any real chemistry. I think that, for better or for worse, one of the Coyotes' biggest assets historically was that it was Shane Doan's Team. Whose team is it now? OEL's? I don't see it.

The season's still young, but if this keeps up then I'm glad Strome's not in the lineup - and I'd almost want Keller to go to Tucson too to get away from it. The environment under Tippett over the last few years had grown stale; this culture, though, could end up being toxic.

 

[Matias Maccete]

We played well in Game 1, deserved to win that one...but let off the gas and unfortunately we haven't been able to get the foot back on the gas at all in the last 2 games where we've looked terrible.

We're "turnover" machines out there...you could be absolutely drunk if you had to take a drink every time we turned the puck over, you'd be passed out in the first 10 mins.

Schenn isn't good, KConn had a really bad game and OEL/Hammer seemingly don't work well together and I noticed that they had OEL w/Demers in the 3rd...so 3 games in and we've lost our top pair already, never a good sign.

We need Chychrun back in the worst way and can we please trade w/Vegas to replace Schenn.

I just don't see Schenn playing any worse than most of our other dmen, same as last year. He's a bottom pairing guy, unless you have a crazy deep blueline you're not going to have all top caliber dmen, and IMO Schenn is a competent bottom pairing defender.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Washington Generals sighting last night (good thing Doc wasn't doing the game).

IMO we'll see a spirited effort and first win vs Detroit Thursday.

 

[rt]

Perhaps you haven’t been watching. It’s one thing to lose because the team was outplayed or unlucky. It’s another thing to simply be outclassed by a powerhouse team. This isn’t either.

What I see is a team with no structure, playing pond hockey. The players don’t support each other and just barrel up the ice. On the PP they make drop passes to players 50 feet behind them. Even strength and on the PP players play a one on one game and get double teamed and stripped of the puck in short order.

Laugh all you want but this is a coaching issue, not a string of bad games by a young team.

I agree with everything but the last sentence. I don't think it's either or, I think it's both. 100% new coaching staff. Insane roster turnover. Incredible amount of 22 and under players. All of these things necessitate a prolonged adjustment period.

Apart from that last sentence, though, I think you nailed it.

 

[rt]

Feck, missing McDavid for Strome is huge. I actually do believe it's as big as one player turning it around. When it's THAT player. I think he may end up better than Crosby. What he can do offensively at full speed with the puck is like Bure. Except he's equally good at passing as he is withthe puck. And he's like Federov getting back on D. He might be the best player since Gretzky. I would obviously trade Strome for him. I'd add OEL. And Keller. And Domi. So, if I'd trade OEL, Domi, Keller, and Strome for McDavid, I think he's bigger than a whole rebuild all by himself. I'd trade our first line and our first pairing and our first round pick for him.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Again, I think it's both. The sense I'm getting from this team is that there isn't an identity, something that has gelled them together. In a way, it still looks like a team in training camp with a bunch of guys struggling to stand out without having any real chemistry. I think that, for better or for worse, one of the Coyotes' biggest assets historically was that it was Shane Doan's Team. Whose team is it now? OEL's? I don't see it.

The season's still young, but if this keeps up then I'm glad Strome's not in the lineup - and I'd almost want Keller to go to Tucson too to get away from it. The environment under Tippett over the last few years had grown stale; this culture, though, could end up being toxic.

Very astute. One of the things that had been mentioned in the past was the years from 09-12 definitely had that mentality of a target that the players knew of, but it was the target of being the team that may get moved around. That is a significant reason to rally around.

My biggest thing is that is a very big juxtaposition to be both a solid defensive team, but also willing to push the pace significantly on offense. I will admit, it is refreshing to see the speed on the ice and how we are attacking the offensive zone with a little less of a leash and a little more emphasis on quick decision making. But it becomes very hard to then turn around and put the emphasis on getting better defensively while still maintaining an "edge" to our offensive game. It will become a constant battle back and forth, because our offense can support the team, but if we keep going high-flying attack and don't also pay attention to defensive responsibility, we leave ourselves wide open for the counter-attack, and I think we have seen that often in the first 3 games here. Very hard to reign someone in when they are given more freedom to execute. Start with a reigned in process and then open the doors up as you prove you are understanding where to be and what to do.

One other important thing to note, and I don't want to rely too much on this, b/c of how young the season is, but it is worth noting that when leading after 2 periods, this is how many regulation and OT losses we had (this did not turn out as nicely as I thought it was going to look - does anyone know if there is a better format for lists to use or do I just need to dump it in Excel and then post the Excel view?):

Year Reg L OT L
09-10 1 2
10-11 2 2
11-12 1 0
12-13 0 1
13-14 6 4
14-15 1 2
15-16 2 3
16-17 0 4
17-18 1 1

Even when we were a bad team (13-14 season onward), we could still hold leads, even though there were less opportunities for it. The 13-14 season with Ribeiro coming on board was definitely a time when we saw us unable to sustain a lead. We got back on track, but the fact that within 3 games this year, we have already blown nearly as many leads as what we have in an entire season has me concerned about the defense again and about the players not executing. Still time to turn it around, but this aspect scares me. I do know that young players need to learn how to grind out wins, but we have enough veteran presence to not get into that situation. Or, our coach needs to figure out his go-to shut down group appropriately, especially in the 3rd period.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Start with a reigned in process and then open the doors up as you prove you are understanding where to be and what to do.

"dilly, dilly"

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Feck, missing McDavid for Strome is huge. I actually do believe it's as big as one player turning it around. When it's THAT player. I think he may end up better than Crosby. What he can do offensively at full speed with the puck is like Bure. Except he's equally good at passing as he is withthe puck. And he's like Federov getting back on D. He might be the best player since Gretzky. I would obviously trade Strome for him. I'd add OEL. And Keller. And Domi. So, if I'd trade OEL, Domi, Keller, and Strome for McDavid, I think he's bigger than a whole rebuild all by himself. I'd trade our first line and our first pairing and our first round pick for him.

I probably shouldn't have sounded like McDavid and Matthews aren't generational players, because they are. What I'm saying is that Connor McDavid and Auston Matthews wouldn't be enough to fix what's wrong with this team. Jack Eichel is generational too, and look what's happening with the Sabres.

It's not that those players don't have value - EXTREME value - it's that even the greatest player in the world can't single-handedly carry a poorly coached and poorly constructed franchise. I don't necessarily know if we're either of those yet - our sample size is too small at this point - but think back over the past three games, and tell me, do you think Connor McDavid would have made a difference given the kind of shiftless, structureless play we saw?

 

[rt]

I do think McDavid could single handedly win a lot of games. Momentum matters. He can wrest it away from your opponent and defend it all by himself. Given that I'm only 32 years old and missed Gretzky, what I'm seeing McDavid do is the most impressive hockey I've ever seen.

 

[Heldig]

McDavid is a true generational talent. It hurts that the Coyotes missed out on him, Eichel, Matthews and Laine (and Tkachuk for that matter) in a span of 2 years of complete suckage. That combined with the many misses at the draft (not all the Coyotes fault but in hind sight Tarasenko sure would be a nice addition instead of Gormley).

I do have optimism for this young, talented roster. That optimism has been challenged this first week of the season for sure. Losing to an expansion team twice

Really hope OEL figures out what ails him and he can fix his game and start leading the D.

 

[Summer Rose]

I'm sure I'll be booed, flamed, have rotten tomatoes thrown at me, and more but: this isn't as bad as it seems. We weren't good obviously tonight, but really if you throw out the vile, putrid, soul shattering 1st ten minutes this would have been an ok game. We need to work on A LOT of stuff, don't get me wrong, but if we can just raise our low moments from "so bad we guarantee a loss.", to just bad that'll be a huge step in the right direction. We also need to make sure our low moments don't vary from 10 minutes to an entire period of course.

Basically, I'm not saying we don't suck, because clearly we do, but I don't think it's mega panic fire the coach time just yet, and I don't think these 1st 3 games are quite as bad as they look. Ok, unleash the vegetables, I'll try to find some cover.

Keeping with the theme of this thread, I should launch a cow at you for that opinion

 

[awfulwaffle]

Met Brad May. Successful trip.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Really hope OEL figures out what ails him and he can fix his game and start leading the D.

What's ailing OEL is the same thing ailing them all and that's a lack of options.

 

[cobra427]

I don't care what system you play, but you will never win with crappy goal tending, turnovers in all three zones, and the list goes on. We can't even win a FO to gain possession, and that is where it all starts. The players have to take full responsibility for their poor performance thus far. They betters look in the mirror.

Sure, players have to take responsibility. But is the coach putting the players in a position to succeed? He might be asking too much of all the young forwards.

 

[cobra427]

Perhaps you haven’t been watching. It’s one thing to lose because the team was outplayed or unlucky. It’s another thing to simply be outclassed by a powerhouse team. This isn’t either.

What I see is a team with no structure, playing pond hockey. The players don’t support each other and just barrel up the ice. On the PP they make drop passes to players 50 feet behind them. Even strength and on the PP players play a one on one game and get double teamed and stripped of the puck in short order.

Laugh all you want but this is a coaching issue, not a string of bad games by a young team.

I agree the biggest problem is this team looks poorly coached and unstructured. Young forwards+offence first system=Oilers. We have flashes of brilliance on the rush entering their zone and with one timers by Perlini/Keller. Other than that, we are pretty bad.

 

[rt]

Met Brad May. Successful trip.

Along with Tocchet, Doan and Keith Ballard, he's one of my all time favorites.

 

[HanSolo]

Hey guys. Just wanted to say it was really classy how your team came out to salute the city of Las Vegas. I can't say I've personally ever seen anything like that and it was an incredibly classy move by your boys.



This tweet was also tremendous.

Whatever rivalry may rise between our two teams, I have always held a silent hope in my heart that the Coyotes could find some success so that hockey in our region of the country could thrive. You guys have a lot of potential, just need some adjustments to tie it all together. Looking forward to many AZ/LV tilts in the future!

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Whatever rivalry may rise between our two teams, I have always held a silent hope in my heart that the Coyotes could find some success so that hockey in our region of the country could thrive. You guys have a lot of potential, just need some adjustments to tie it all together. Looking forward to many AZ/LV tilts in the future!

I've always said that LV/AZ is going to be a classic rivalry that's grounded in a fundamental mutual respect. Very different from our rivalry with Los Angeles, for sure. Whatever happened during the game, I am really glad I got to see and be part of VGK's special opening night. It was unforgettable.