GDT: Game 2: Knights @ Coyotes | 6:00 p.m. PDT | FS-A | 620 AM

[EXTRAS]

Why did they scratch Fischer last game?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Why did they scratch Fischer last game?

There's been a lot of speculation, but I think it boils down to further analysis. My analysis is Fisher > Cousins

 

[TheLegend]

Why did they scratch Fischer last game?

Took dumb penalties the previous two games (pre season and opener).

He'll be back in though.

 

[HerrDonut]

Why did they scratch Fischer last game?

Bit of "Fischer took too many penalties in game 1," bit of "healthy competition for starting lineup spots." I don't believe there was an explicit "we're sitting Fischer for this reason" from the club.

 

[Tom Polakis]

MUCH more experience on the LV side of the tilt. And a much more "traditional" system.

Some might say that our "non-traditional" system of jumping in deep is untenable, unless you're content with a lot of odd-man rushes. I suppose we'll find out in another couple dozen games if it's the players unable to play the system, or if it's an unworkable system for these players.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Some might say that our "non-traditional" system of jumping in deep is untenable, unless you're content with a lot of odd-man rushes. I suppose we'll find out in another couple dozen games if it's the players unable to play the system, or if it's an unworkable system for these players.

Agreed. Personally I love a strong forecheck, but Doan really care for a lot of emphasis on the stretch pass on the breakout. I think you're better off treating the breakout like climbing a ladder - can't skip several rungs and climb effectively.

 

[knich]

Reider is a valuable player even if he doesn't score as much as he should. His speed draws a lot of penalties, he's defensively responsible, and he puts pressure on the opponent

No is saying he is not valuable. He is a valuable 3rd or 4th liner. Richardson and Martinook are valuable too.

Not trying to fan any flames of hatred, but we got beat the same way DT would have beat us. I Doan think that is the style this team needs to play, but it's interesting just the same.

I was thinking the exact same thing last night. VGK reminded me of the DT Yotes (in terms of structure) and we the pre-McDavid Oilers. VGK played a very disciplined and stuctured game and we did not. Now I know how the Oilers felt when they lost to us like 20x..lol.

Usage. Tippett used Rieder as a shutdown guy. Defensive zone starts against top competition. Few quality minutes, few offensive zone starts. Last season he only saw 95mins on the PP making him one of the most effective PP players. Only Vrbata, Domi, Hanzal and Burmistrov were better. Among the forwards with more than 100 shots he was the 2nd most effective just behind Hanzal...pretty impressive if you take into account that he didn't get too many quality or PP-minutes. Rieder also played a whopping 2:21 PK per game.

I repeat...Reider scored 2 power play goals all season. So that's 1 power play goal every 47 minutes of power plays. Put another way: That's 1 goal every 23 full power plays. And you say he is an effective PP player?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I was thinking the exact same thing last night. VGK reminded me of the DT Yotes (in terms of structure) and we the pre-McDavid Oilers. VGK played a very disciplined and stuctured game and we did not. Now I know how the Oilers felt when they lost to us like 20x..lol.

We lived the same nightmare my friend - here's hoping it was just a bad dream!

 

[Hinterland]

I repeat...Reider scored 2 power play goals all season. So that's 1 power play goal every 47 minutes of power plays. Put another way: That's 1 goal every 23 full power plays. And you say he is an effective PP player?

Domi scored 1 in 151 minutes, Dvorak 2 in 111...
6 points in 95 mins is actually pretty good if you're on the same unit with McGinn and Holland
I can only repeat myself...Rieder has been one of the most effective forwards on both PP and EV. The only one who's clearly better statistically would be Martin Hanzal. Like it or not but if you take Rieder's usage in account then it's obvious who's the most effective forward on the team. If we're talking about the best two way player the picture is even clearer.
I'm not Rieder's greatest fan but saying something else would be flat out lying. If the coaches let him play then I have high hopes for Fischer though.

 

[Hinterland]

Obviously the FO% was disastrous but couldn't help noticing the comment above about "chasing the game" because of it. Some folks are still stuck in the Dave Tippett cliche era I guess. It's only the second game so it'll take time.

So you say that faceoffs aren't important?
In fact, they're more important now than ever. Refs cleaning up the faceoffs allows the teams to generate immediate offense after a won faceoff. Before, a good Centerman like Hanzal was able to prevent a cleanly lost faceoff 9/10 times. You lose a faceoff in your own zone now it means you're in trouble. The Coyotes have two Centerman with the potential to win 50% (Dvorak, Richardson) but all other players were clearly below 50% in every season they played in the NHL. Not enough in my view. I wanted an experienced bottom six Centerman all the way since preseason...maybe now you know why. In 7 seasons, Stepan never managed to win more than 47%. That's just far off and beyond pathetic. You may think it doesn't matter but I can promise you it does.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I think we'd all agree that face offs are huge and the need to gain possession is key to maintaining possession.

 

[cobra427]

Our D is consistently unable to clear the zone and unable to make clean outlet passes/passes in their own zone. Most of the sustained pressure we are facing is because our D is making stupid choices with the puck.

I watched the game again today. When I watch, I am watching players and what they are doing when LV has the puck and I am also watching what they are doing and where they are when we first get the puck in our own zone. The D isn't the problem, the forwards aren't forechecking and back checking in the neutral zone enough, they are missing assignments and this is leading to LV having a sustained rush into our zone. When the D get the puck in our own zone, LV has pressure on them right away, they are making passes to where our forwards should be in support, but they are not in the right position or area to receive the puck. The only forward line that was effective in all 3 zones was Reider/Martinook/Richardson, our most experienced line.

It's going to take some time, maybe 1/2 a season or more for our young forwards to learn the game at this level and what is required when they are not on the rush going into the O zone. LV has a more experienced line up and they looked like it last night too, more vets on their team. Raanta was fantastic last night, that is a great sign. I don't expect any changes on D, maybe Clenenden gets a start but he would replace Schenn who played pretty well.

 

[BigJCaRoach]

Bought 4 mystery signed pucks. And only now realized I never opened the foil. Stepan, Martinook, Richardson and Perlini.

During the red carpet walk pregame, Domi got the biggest pop I think of any player (even Oliver). And he was last to walk the aisle. (Meaningful or meaningless) Was a fun experience I hope becomes a new tradition.

 

[cobra427]

Not trying to fan any flames of hatred, but we got beat the same way DT would have beat us. I Doan think that is the style this team needs to play, but it's interesting just the same.

LV was clearly playing within a structured system versus whatever we were doing. They have more vets that aren't flashy on offence but are in the NHL because they are solid in other parts of their game. They didn't look or play like an expansion team. We never outshot anyone 40+ to 30 with tip coaching though.

 

[moosemeister]

Took the gf and daughter to the game. Bought my little one the cutest little coyotes jersey. Definitely highlight of the night knowing that the coyotes sell infant jerseys. haha.

I sat in the all you can eat section of the lower level. Definitely a nice touch. The line for the food and drinks was NEVER long. We got in, got out and back to our seats with no issues whatsoever.

The game on the other hand, I felt like we were on our heels and backed into a corner then entire time. Vegas played a great structured game. Thats what a veteran team looks like. Can't be angry about that. We didn't play structured, they did. They won. No surprise.

Raanta was GREAT. That sequence in the second period was one of the best displays of goal tending I've seen in a very long time out of this team. Very happy with what I saw out of him yesterday. You're gonna have your nights where your goal tender bails you out. He did, our offense just didn't do anything.

One thing that is evident this year from year's past is their speed. It is night and day how much faster they're moving this year. We all figured this team would either come out flying or come out slow. There was no in-between. I think we are going to come out slow, but once the sticks and the feet catch up to the brain and the timing clicks, this is going to be a dangerous team to watch. Intensity and timing needs to get better. The skill is there, the speed is there. Its just the small things that come with time need to be figured out.

I am NOT disappointed in the first two games. Results aside, I see more positives than negatives.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

LV was clearly playing within a structured system versus whatever we were doing. They have more vets that aren't flashy on offence but are in the NHL because they are solid in other parts of their game. They didn't look or play like an expansion team. We never outshot anyone 40+ to 30 with tip coaching though.

Yep, but we never played anyone quite like us either!

 

[TheLegend]

So you say that faceoffs aren't important?
In fact, they're more important now than ever. Refs cleaning up the faceoffs allows the teams to generate immediate offense after a won faceoff. Before, a good Centerman like Hanzal was able to prevent a cleanly lost faceoff 9/10 times. You lose a faceoff in your own zone now it means you're in trouble. The Coyotes have two Centerman with the potential to win 50% (Dvorak, Richardson) but all other players were clearly below 50% in every season they played in the NHL. Not enough in my view. I wanted an experienced bottom six Centerman all the way since preseason...maybe now you know why. In 7 seasons, Stepan never managed to win more than 47%. That's just far off and beyond pathetic. You may think it doesn't matter but I can promise you it does.

Two years ago we were the top or second best FO team IN THE LEAGUE with Carolina Tyson Nash couldn't stop talking about it all year long.

And how did that work out for us? Or even Carolina for that matter??

The problem with most stat jockeys here is you can't take a couple of different stats and made a whole load of presumptions based on them. Stats are the symptoms and not the actual problem.

 

[Hinterland]

LV was clearly playing within a structured system versus whatever we were doing. They have more vets that aren't flashy on offence but are in the NHL because they are solid in other parts of their game. They didn't look or play like an expansion team. We never outshot anyone 40+ to 30 with tip coaching though.

Well, they had an anchor like Eakin playing 22mins just because they don't have a better Centerman...
If Vegas played with a purpose then maybe that's because they're properly coached. Not sure about Arizona. Coyotes had some solid vets in the lineup as well but the Coaches decided not to play them...

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Two years ago we were the top or second best FO team IN THE LEAGUE with Carolina Tyson Nash couldn't stop talking about it all year long.

And how did that work out for us? Or even Carolina for that matter??

The problem with most stat jockeys here is you can't take a couple of different stats and made a whole load of presumptions based on them. Stats are the symptoms and not the actual problem.

I Doan see how a faceoff percentage can be a symptom, as it's how play is started. Am I not understanding you correctly?

 

[Hinterland]

Two years ago we were the top or second best FO team IN THE LEAGUE with Carolina Tyson Nash couldn't stop talking about it all year long.

And how did that work out for us? Or even Carolina for that matter??

The problem with most stat jockeys here is you can't take a couple of different stats and made a whole load of presumptions based on them. Stats are the symptoms and not the actual problem.

Of course if you play Centers for faceoffs only (Gordon) or if you have too many McGinn's and Chipchura's on the roster then winning faceoffs doesn't help much. Now with the cleaned up faceoffs they're more important than ever though. Can't just go down or outmuscle your opponents. You lose a defensive zone draw, you're in trouble. I as a coach would hate to have only two Centermen even capable of winning 50%.

 

[cobra427]

Well, they had an anchor like Eakin playing 22mins just because they don't have a better Centerman...
If Vegas played with a purpose then maybe that's because they're properly coached. Not sure about Arizona. Coyotes had some solid vets in the lineup as well but the Coaches decided not to play them...

LV looked well coached for sure and playing a system. They have all new players, nobody played together last year, yet they look very structured. This is because they have more vets in their forward ranks. Tocc is playing so may forwards with zero or very little NHL experience, Perlini/Crouse/Keller/Strome/DVO/Duclair/Cousins/Fischer. I wouldn't say we aren't properly coached at this point and time. I just think with so many young forwards, it is going to take time for all these young guys to play in all 3 zones, and mostly without the puck, at this level. True that Tocc didn't give the Richardson/Reider/Martinook vet line many minutes last night. I think Tocc will play them more minutes on Tuesday or juggle the lines.

 

[cobra427]

Duplicate post.

 

[Hinterland]

LV looked well coached for sure and playing a system. They have all new players, nobody played together last year, yet they look very structured. This is because they have more vets in their forward ranks. Tocc is playing so may forwards with zero or very little NHL experience, Perlini/Crouse/Keller/Strome/DVO/Duclair/Cousins/Fischer. I wouldn't say we aren't properly coached at this point and time. I just think with so many young forwards, it is going to take time for all these young guys to play in all 3 zones, and mostly without the puck, at this level. True that Tocc didn't give the Richardson/Reider/Martinook vet line many minutes last night. I think Tocc will play them more minutes on Tuesday or juggle the lines.

Fischer didn't play but he's one of the more responsible forwards already. He has to be in and the vets have to play more. No doubt about that. Especially Rieder. You have to talk about at least questionable coaching if he only plays 11mins in a tight game like that...

 

[cobra427]

Fischer didn't play but he's one of the more responsible forwards already. He has to be in and the vets have to play more. No doubt about that. Especially Rieder. You have to talk about at least questionable coaching if he only plays 11mins in a tight game like that...

Fischer has only a few games in the NHL at this point and had 2 penalties last game. I don't think he is a difference maker or is being treated unfairly. I'll bet money that Reider/Richardson/Martinook all get more minutes next game after Tocc watches the tape. Tocc is finding his way, I'm not down on him or his decisions so far. Over time, he'll make adjustments and it is still really really early.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Gerard Gallant plays a system very similar to Tippett's, in that it takes a less-talented roster, stuffs them into a conservative defensive box, and outworks the other team to death. It generally works pretty well for a couple of years before the room sours on it.

Add to that, they all have a ton to prove, having been picked last by basically everyone. So I'm guessing Vegas is going to be like the 2011-2012 Coyotes.