GDT: Game 2: Carolina vs Columbus, 7pm

[CandyCanes]

https://www.canescountry.com/2017/1...olumbus-blue-jackets-pnc-arena-low-attendance


This article on CanesCountry hits the nail on the head as to what I've been trying to conceive on these boards with my thoughts. Market the dang team.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

For a franchise desperate to get people in the door...

But they're not. That's the point you're missing. If they were desperate to get people in the door, they'd be giving out $5 tickets to State students and doing endless two-for-one hot dog deals. That was the Jim Cain approach, the "compact with the fans" approach.

Trouble is, there's no compact that can get fans to pay to see a losing team.

*We* are desperate to see people come in the door -- because we are insecure about the future of our team, because we're tired of hearing how our team doesn't have any real fans, because we're tired of having the building fill up with Rags fans -- because a million different reasons.

Ownership wants something totally different. They want to build a sustainable business. They made money last year with the lowest attendance in the NHL. They're playing moneyball. Now we're starting to see the results.

Be patient.

 

[weasel66]

Evidently everyone's favorite Luke reading the board today
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article178262471.html

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

But they're not. That's the point you're missing. If they were desperate to get people in the door, they'd be giving out $5 tickets to State students and doing endless two-for-one hot dog deals. That was the Jim Cain approach, the "compact with the fans" approach.

They give 10$ tickets to State students (anyone with a "valid college ID", my bro with his UNC-Charlotte ID got in).

They used to advertise it heavily, but that angered STH's. And for good reason, you're paying 100 bucks a seat for a lower level ticket and some kid on a lark gets in for 10 bucks and then moves down because there's no one in the building?

You can see how their attitude shifted by how they advertised College/Military Rush, from heavy promotion to almost nothing.

This is just so freaking embarrassing. We've had games during State of Emergencies when Pat McCrory told people to stay off the roads that were better attended.

 

[Ole Gil]

I think being desperate to get people in the door may be related to how much better an experience a hockey game is with 15,000 in the crowd than with 7,000.

 

[Svechhammer]

I think being desperate to get people in the door may be related to how much better an experience a hockey game is with 15,000 in the crowd than with 7,000.

Not only that, but you're missing out on concession/merchandise sales of about 8k people, and that adds up quickly. Sure, you might make more purely with ticket sales by making everyone pay full price, but you might be taking a bigger hit elsewhere (though, I would bet the difference isn't that great, given the direction the team chose to make).

 

[the halleJOKEL]

i mean... they are making a profit now whereas they were losing money using the strategy you are advocating they return to.

 

[Joe McGrath]

i mean... they are making a profit now whereas they were losing money using the strategy you are advocating they return to.

In fairness they did that while spending less $ on salary than any other team in the league by $7 million. They aren't going to be able to do that anymore. Next season if they don't have 13-15k average and/or a couple playoff rounds, they are back in the red in all likelihood.

 

[tarheelhockey]

We should be encouraging a secondary market, because that means the initial ticket was bought and someone is going to be in the arena.

From that standpoint, the bigger picture is that making it hard to re-sell tickets undercuts your STM just as much as having $10 discount seats. Very few people make it to all 41 home games, and eating the cost of games (because you can't sell the tickets) cuts WAY into the benefit of buying the package in the first place. If you're saving 10% on the price of the tickets but then 20% go unused, you've basically just lost money compared to if you had decided to wander up to the box office every now and then.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So from the selling side, it's all going through Ticketmaster? Aren't they contracted to manage the Caniac Account Manager portal? It seems weird that they would play both sides like that.

I just used Ticketmaster reseller direct last night because the price was similar to stubhub.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

i mean... they are making a profit now whereas they were losing money using the strategy you are advocating they return to.

But how much does that have to do with the massive revenue sharing spike in the 2013 CBA?

 

[tarheelhockey]

But how much does that have to do with the massive revenue sharing spike in the 2013 CBA?

I don’t know the answer to that, but does it matter? Someone’s always going to get revenue sharing.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I don’t know the answer to that, but does it matter? Someone’s always going to get revenue sharing.

How much does the relative difference in revenue sharing matter in a discussion about making money with 7k and no discounted tickets vs. losing money with 13k and discounted tickets?

Sure, they made money last year with crap attendance in a non-playoff year, something they never did with decent attendance in a non-playoff year. But the amount of revenue sharing the Hurricanes receive has increased by a lot between pre and post 2013 CBA, which is probably a factor in that.

 

[JCLA]

Or maybe it was not including the vegas expansion

 

[Svechhammer]

From that standpoint, the bigger picture is that making it hard to re-sell tickets undercuts your STM just as much as having $10 discount seats. Very few people make it to all 41 home games, and eating the cost of games (because you can't sell the tickets) cuts WAY into the benefit of buying the package in the first place. If you're saving 10% on the price of the tickets but then 20% go unused, you've basically just lost money compared to if you had decided to wander up to the box office every now and then.

Exactly. I believe I've seen reports from places that have actively streamlined the secondary market (I think this happened with us at VTech in football and basketball) where the season ticket holder pool actually increased when you made it easier for them to sell their tickets for games they couldn't attend.

 

[Chrispy]

Or maybe it was not including the vegas expansion

That's what it was. Waddell said it was before the expansion fee and that it wouldn't be representative to include the expansion fee.

So yes, it would include the increased revenue sharing.

https://nsjonline.com/article/2017/08/hurricanes-waddell-says-team-made-2m-room-for-growth/

While each of the NHL’s 30 teams received a $16 million cut of the incoming Vegas Golden Knights’ $500 million expansion fee, Waddell said the Hurricanes made money even without the one-time influx of expansion cash.

“The Las Vegas money would be up and above that,” Waddell said of the team making a profit. “We made $18 million — it’s a true statement — but really you’d be selling something that’s not going to continue, let’s say.”

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I've done StubHub numerous times for various events, and not once have I dealt with anything as convoluted as that. For a franchise desperate to get people in the door, this seems to be incredibly counter-productive.

It was no more difficult than a paper ticket. I checked Stubhub and found $11 tickets. I check Ticketmaster reseller and found $12 tickets. In the end, I "splurged" for $13 tickets off of Ticketmaster reseller (+ $5 fee). It was simple, buy the tickets and the QR code shows up on my phone. Frankly, much easier than the paper PDF tickets.

 

[tarheelhockey]

How much does the relative difference in revenue sharing matter in a discussion about making money with 7k and no discounted tickets vs. losing money with 13k and discounted tickets?

Sure, they made money last year with crap attendance in a non-playoff year, something they never did with decent attendance in a non-playoff year. But the amount of revenue sharing the Hurricanes receive has increased by a lot between pre and post 2013 CBA, which is probably a factor in that.

I’m just not clear on why it matters, given that this is all part of the business model not just for the Canes but for the league.

It’s not like this is a cash call... revenue sharing is built into the financial structure of the NHL.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I don’t know the answer to that, but does it matter? Someone’s always going to get revenue sharing.

This is what the halleJOKEL said:

i mean... they are making a profit now whereas they were losing money using the strategy you are advocating they return to.

I'm simply pointing out that part of the success of the current system over the old system has to do with the increase in revenue sharing. That's it.

It's great that the Hurricanes made 2 million in profit from a bust season with bust expectations. I'm not trying to take away from that by crediting revenue sharing, nor am I saying one system is better than the other (though as wally pointed out, 15k atmosphere is soooo much better than a 7k atmosphere).

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'm simply pointing out that part of the success of the current system over the old system has to do with the increase in revenue sharing. That's it.

It's great that the Hurricanes made 2 million in profit from a bust season with bust expectations. I'm not trying to take away from that by crediting revenue sharing, nor am I saying one system is better than the other (though as wally pointed out, 15k atmosphere is soooo much better than a 7k atmosphere).

I see what you’re getting at now.

I’d be interested to see revenue sharing for each of the past 3 years against actual revenue and profit for each of those years. That would give us a better picture.

 

[Chrispy]

It's great that the Hurricanes made 2 million in profit from a bust season with bust expectations. I'm not trying to take away from that by crediting revenue sharing, nor am I saying one system is better than the other (though as wally pointed out, 15k atmosphere is soooo much better than a 7k atmosphere).

The argument that Waddell made in the article below is that season ticket holders complained about the number of discounts & freebies handed out, so they adjusted the strategy and the number of STH equivalencies increased since 2014 from 5,400 to 7,000.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/nhl/carolina-hurricanes/canes-now/article178311106.html

So it's not just the revenue sharing, although to truly evaluate this we'd have to see how the single-ticket income changed from 2014 to 2017. Were those freebies enticing return visits?

 

[Stickpucker]

Re: attendance. Winning is everything, but it's not an instant fix. We know this team is for real because we follow them every day. Casual fans don't know yet, and won't know for a while yet.

If you're embarrassed by it, go out and recruit some of your friends to go to games with you.

But what if we dunt got frends?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Evidently everyone's favorite Luke reading the board today
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article178262471.html

He's hit the nail on the head though.

In the end, when it comes to the Hurricanes, attendance is what it is right now for a reason. If you have to pay full price, you really have to want to be in the building. The Hurricanes' performance hasn't given enough people enough of a reason to show up for years. If and when the Hurricanes do become successful, it will still take time to rebuild the fan base – as it did in Boston and Chicago and every other city where people tuned out when the team was garbage. That's not unique to the Hurricanes. It's true of nearly every NHL market.

Canes have made a business decision to not give tickets away. That combined with a bad team for years means low attendance and it's not unique to this market.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Yeah if anything I was surprised Luke DeCock didn't take the worst attended game in 16 years or whatever and go farther in the THE SKY IS FALLING direction.

 

[EchoesoftheEighties]

The reality of the situation? Oh, you want to get real?

The reality of the situation is that we've missed the playoffs FOR NINE ****ING YEARS.

Two pretty good games at the beginning of a new season don't mean ****. Seriously, what the **** do you expect on a Tuesday night in October when it's 80 degrees outside and we're playing the Columbus Blue Jackets?

I'm an outsider but this speaks to me. I was at the game but don't blame people for not really caring. This falls on the team IMO. They just haven't really done very well since you won Stanley (barring 09). I've barely seen acknowledgment of the team in the city in fact. You guys will know better than me obviously but what's marketing like? Any billboards or anything even?

I'd also say a legit star would really help. A guy who is like wow what a pleasure to watch him play. I think Aho might develop into this kind of talent, he was awesome to see.

There's potential with the team and the market has proven to support them. Give the people a reason to show up and they will.

Just my thoughts on the matter.