GDT: Game 2: Avs @ Devils | Saturday, October 7th, Noon MT | Bernie's Angels

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Bender

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Sep 25, 2002
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Yes, he does make good points. He always has. On the other hand he and his staff are still teaching systems which clearly don't work. The PK is the biggest problem right now and has been for a while. And it's a problem which also affects 5 on 5 play because by now the thought of avoiding penalties at all costs must be the dominating one in the players' heads. The team looks better when the puck goes up and down because it's more about speed and hustle than about systems in those moments. As soon as the game slows down it becomes obvious how bad the setups and strategies are. You can't only be fast in the modern NHL. You can't outwork the opponents all the time. You need structure. You need more than just `get the puck behind the opposing D and hope somebody comes up with a great idea.´ Otherwise you're simply wasting energy.
I'm also asking myself why Landy is still captain of this team. We have many players on the team now who were praised for their great leadership in juniors but it rarely shows on the ice. Might be changing the captain won't affect this but do we not need to try something? Anything? Especially because Landy's famous Viking mode isn't a thing you can see in more than three or four games of a season.
There are many obvious problems and I don't see improvements in any of these areas. Players come and go but nothing seems to change.

I think you make a lot of fair points. I will say that there are no systems that exist that will allow you to get outworked on every shift and still win unless the goalie steals it.

It did change when Roy first took over, the players bought in that first year and we saw the results. Mistakes were made following that season unfortunately and we are where we are but players know when a coach knows what he's doing or when he's not making the right calls with the roster.
 

bohlmeister

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I think you make a lot of fair points. I will say that there are no systems that exist that will allow you to get outworked on every shift and still win unless the goalie steals it.

It did change when Roy first took over, the players bought in that first year and we saw the results. Mistakes were made following that season unfortunately and we are where we are but players know when a coach knows what he's doing or when he's not making the right calls with the roster.
Sacco too. Those guys worked their tails off that first season. They won puck battles, created turnovers, and created offense off of the rush. The other 2 season the team completely gave up. With Bednar they gave up from the start, which is troubling. There must be something toxic in that room, or terrible leadership. Something has to be going on. I don't believe in Sakic's ability to figure that out though. And he shouldn't be given the opportunity.
 

AnimalMother73

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Don't know if Avs are unlucky, inept or both but it just seems the like the sum has been greater than the whole basically since the '05 lock out. Almost a decade of unabated poor drafting outside of round 1. Draft picks whose potential suggests they should be playing better yet rarely live up to expectations. Players who come in a play well for 20 game or at best half a season then never repeat and teams whose talent far exceeds on ice productivity. Are players like Mackinnon, Landeskog and Duch just inherently inferior to their peers (unlucky draft picks) and/or are coaches/mgmt just consistently less capable than their peers? Bad enough if its just one but unfortunately I think its all....I truly wonder how much bad publicity Kroenke's will take before doing anything, if they do anything. It would not surprise me if Avs play like last season that they just let it ride and throw the line out there "we believe in Joe Sakic's long term vision" as a way to shield themselves from having to do anything.
 

Bender

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Sacco too. Those guys worked their tails off that first season. They won puck battles, created turnovers, and created offense off of the rush. The other 2 season the team completely gave up. With Bednar they gave up from the start, which is troubling. There must be something toxic in that room, or terrible leadership. Something has to be going on. I don't believe in Sakic's ability to figure that out though. And he shouldn't be given the opportunity.

It's Bednar. Imagine working your butt off all training camp to find out Zadorov is a healthy scratch to start the season?? Not put in a more limited role with less minutes than usual because he's (a bit behind)...HEALTHY SCRATCH. If it's obvious to 95% (or more) of all Avs fans on this forum, then it's even moreso to players who are on the ice with him...hes the 3rd best option on defense for this team and it's not really close. How is that putting your team in the best possible position to win?

How is having no set pairings and keep rotating defenders with one another giving your team a chance to win??? No other team behaves this way. Pratt did this with the defense to start the year last year as well and the results were poor as well. There's a reason no other team does this (unless they have to due to injury within a game) because it doesn't f***ing work!
 

Metallo

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Terrible idea. You don't give special treatment to better players. If you are going to bench a lesser player after a bad game then you do the same to the core.

At this age, this is just a bad strategy anyways. These guys won't respond to being benched too well. That might motivate teenagers, but that's just going to piss pros off.

You know there is a double standard, I'm not making this stuff up.

I'm not talking about benching I'm talking about scratching.

I don't know what you are talking about, players are being scratched. Nieto, Soda, Barbie, Mironov and others all have been scratched for performance. This needs to continue. Short leashes.
 

Metallo

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Don't know if Avs are unlucky, inept or both but it just seems the like the sum has been greater than the whole basically since the '05 lock out. Almost a decade of unabated poor drafting outside of round 1. Draft picks whose potential suggests they should be playing better yet rarely live up to expectations. Players who come in a play well for 20 game or at best half a season then never repeat and teams whose talent far exceeds on ice productivity. Are players like Mackinnon, Landeskog and Duch just inherently inferior to their peers (unlucky draft picks) and/or are coaches/mgmt just consistently less capable than their peers? Bad enough if its just one but unfortunately I think its all....I truly wonder how much bad publicity Kroenke's will take before doing anything, if they do anything. It would not surprise me if Avs play like last season that they just let it ride and throw the line out there "we believe in Joe Sakic's long term vision" as a way to shield themselves from having to do anything.
I have to disagree, no management can survive a second season like last year.
 

Avs_19

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Jun 28, 2007
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I'm glad I missed this one yesterday. Looks like this team has some serious issues on special teams. In hindsight, maybe they should've focused more on that rather than waiting until after the second preseason game because they were so focused on conditioning.
 

the_fan

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Isn't it obvious by now that problem with this team isn't just one thing. Coaching is a problem but so is inconsistent play from all so called core players. MacKinnon is trying to do everything by himself, just takes low percentage shots, Landeskog is pretty much invisible, Duchene has also been inconsistent for a while.

I don't know why i have to keep saying this, and why people still wonder what's wrong with this team, but i'll say it again. This organization needs changes everywhere. Front office, coaching, players. This core hasn't done anything, and it's doubtful they'll suddenly start doing something. New core, new coaching and a new GM will turn this franchise around.
 

Metallo

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I'm glad I missed this one yesterday. Looks like this team has some serious issues on special teams. In hindsight, maybe they should've focused more on that rather than waiting until after the second preseason game because they were so focused on conditioning.
On the other hand, skating like a headlesss chicken does require good stamina.
 

JimEIV

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Hi Devil fan here, just curious to hear your opinion what you guys thought about the Devils compared to the Rangers as an opponent?
 

StayAtHomeAv

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You know there is a double standard, I'm not making this stuff up.

I'm not talking about benching I'm talking about scratching.

I don't know what you are talking about, players are being scratched. Nieto, Soda, Barbie, Mironov and others all have been scratched for performance. This needs to continue. Short leashes.

I didn't say you were making it up. I'm saying its a bad tactic.

Benching, scratching, now you are just arguing semantics. We are discussing guys who do not get to dress for a game. Call it what you want.

Obviously you don't know. I never said players are not being scratched.

If this short leash tactic continues its just going to piss people off and make guys quit on him.
 

CobraAcesS

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Hi Devil fan here, just curious to hear your opinion what you guys thought about the Devils compared to the Rangers as an opponent?

I don't know how much you can tell from playing the Avs.. But NJ looked faster, more in control systemically, and Schneider looked like he was on another level compared to Lundqvist.

Our team is nothing to judge two teams against each other with though.
 
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Balthazar

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Isn't it obvious by now that problem with this team isn't just one thing. Coaching is a problem but so is inconsistent play from all so called core players. MacKinnon is trying to do everything by himself, just takes low percentage shots, Landeskog is pretty much invisible, Duchene has also been inconsistent for a while.

I don't know why i have to keep saying this, and why people still wonder what's wrong with this team, but i'll say it again. This organization needs changes everywhere. Front office, coaching, players. This core hasn't done anything, and it's doubtful they'll suddenly start doing something. New core, new coaching and a new GM will turn this franchise around.
Mack had a terrible game the day after spending 10 min 1 on 1 with Bednar on the ice.
 

CobraAcesS

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Mack had a terrible game the day after spending 10 min 1 on 1 with Bednar the ice.

My comment the other day about Bednar's system sinking in was in jest, but I also think there is truth there as well. We'll likely see this team look more and more disinterested and flat offensively the more Bednar hammers home his style of play.

While I think Mack has to be better. There is an element of truth to the idea that we won't see some of these players best until they are either off the team or our coach is NHL level.

I think we've already seen the difference in coaching in the microcosm that is our power play right now, because that is about the only part of the game where this team looks NHL caliber tactically.

I thought it was kind of funny when Sakic said they wanted to play fast and be a skating team in the FB live interview, and Bednar piped up with his "Well we want to play fast, but that isn't just skating, it's playing fast within our system blah blah fart noise.."

I don't think Sakic and Bednar are on the same page there lmao
 

dahrougem2

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Dec 9, 2011
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Hi Devil fan here, just curious to hear your opinion what you guys thought about the Devils compared to the Rangers as an opponent?
Nothing to compare. You guys were awesome on the PP but we were trash on the PK. Even strength was a fairly even game, and the Avs did generate a lot of chances. Not exactly a dominant game by the Devils against a team that should finish bottom-5 this season.
 

Metallo

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I didn't say you were making it up. I'm saying its a bad tactic.

Benching, scratching, now you are just arguing semantics. We are discussing guys who do not get to dress for a game. Call it what you want.

Obviously you don't know. I never said players are not being scratched.

If this short leash tactic continues its just going to piss people off and make guys quit on him.

The Avs have a bunch of bottom 6 guys that they can rotate in and out. If you don't scratch a guy after a bad game the guy already scratched is going to be pissed. Obviously the short leash approach is better as it keeps the guys on the edge. The Avs could not /would not rotate guys last year and complacency settle in. I much prefer the short leash approach, it's a true "meritocracy".
 
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StayAtHomeAv

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It won't keep them on edge. It will just make them nervous to make a mistake until they get annoyed with all of it and just give up. And with guys going in and out of the lineup constantly it will be hard to form chemistry.

A true meritocracy would include everyone.

If the problem is effort, sure, bench someone. But if you do it just because someone had a bad game then that's not a good way to motivate players.
 
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TruePowerSlave

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The things that are currently right or even OK for the Avs organization is a pretty short list.

I appreciate that Duchene has started with a pro attitude and has been the best forward. Still think he will be traded but his current positive performances, especially if they continue, will make any potential trade much much easier.

Barrie has also been by far the best defender. The offense would be absolutely lost without him. No idea why people want him traded, especially as there is no indication that he wouldn't sign here as long as he gets paid.

The goaltending has been fantastic. It masks just how awful the Avs have been in the first 2 games. The team is skating around like a bunch of headless chickens with no real game plan. Once either Varly or Bernier has a bad night or even just a average game the Avs will get completely exposed and it won't look pretty.

Many of the players look like trash and are very disappointing like Mack who is capable of so much more. However, the Avs are a mess on all levels on and off the ice. Therefore, it is kinda premature to jump to conclusions and say that player X is not that good. Good coaching can make or break a team. Just look at Mack playing for Canada, a completely different player who is much more effective and makes better decisions on a regular basis.

Overall, the season has started pretty much just like I expected. The Avs are being clearly outplayed and only good coaching can fix any of that.
 
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AnimalMother73

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I have to disagree, no management can survive a second season like last year.

Hope you are right. That said, Kroenke's have not made one good executive mgmt decision since acquiring the team (in 99/00 I believe). They inherited an effective Lacroix and rode that horse as far as they could. Its been a slow death since then.
 

the_fan

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Terrible idea. You don't give special treatment to better players. If you are going to bench a lesser player after a bad game then you do the same to the core.

At this age, this is just a bad strategy anyways. These guys won't respond to being benched too well. That might motivate teenagers, but that's just going to piss pros off.


Balls to the wall is not a winning strategy. These are pros. We might be able to steal some games by outworking the opposing team, but most nights the other team is going to want to work just as hard for the win.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. When the talent also works hard though, talent is going to win.

Unless the talent is overrated like the Avs core players are.
 
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