Gainey vs Bergevin

Who is / was a better GM?


  • Total voters
    141

Burke the Legend

Registered User
Feb 22, 2012
8,317
2,850
Gainey lost his UFA's and replaced them with Cammy/Gomez/Gionta/Spacek.

After the 2008-2009 team fell apart with what should have been on paper a pretty good team Gainey decided he couldn't win with those guys and made some pretty bold changes to remake the room which was full of bad characters.

Gomez was a big disappointment not on the hindsight trade value, but his character because he was lazy and never worked out, so as he approached 30 he lost his extra speed that he had in his mid 20s which gave him an edge. If he bothered to go to the gym he could have probably maintained a high calibre of play (55-65 points) for a few more years, at least most of the term of his contract. Pretty pathetic of him to not take his conditioning seriously, deserves to remembered as a disappointing joke and an argument against guaranteed contracts.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
After the 2008-2009 team fell apart with what should have been on paper a pretty good team Gainey decided he couldn't win with those guys and made some pretty bold changes to remake the room which was full of bad characters.

Gomez was a big disappointment not on the hindsight trade value, but his character because he was lazy and never worked out, so as he approached 30 he lost his extra speed that he had in his mid 20s which gave him an edge. If he bothered to go to the gym he could have probably maintained a high calibre of play (55-65 points) for a few more years, at least most of the term of his contract. Pretty pathetic of him to not take his conditioning seriously, deserves to remembered as a disappointing joke and an argument against guaranteed contracts.

somehow the guy kept playing and getting work I don't understand it.

The bigger problem to me was not an issue with Gio or Cammy on their own, but add them and Gomez and now the SMURF stereotype was solidified. Maybe BG was ahead of his time since the game today is more about speed than size, but back then a small team was going to have it tough.
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
73,942
43,020
After the 2008-2009 team fell apart with what should have been on paper a pretty good team Gainey decided he couldn't win with those guys and made some pretty bold changes to remake the room which was full of bad characters.

Gomez was a big disappointment not on the hindsight trade value, but his character because he was lazy and never worked out, so as he approached 30 he lost his extra speed that he had in his mid 20s which gave him an edge. If he bothered to go to the gym he could have probably maintained a high calibre of play (55-65 points) for a few more years, at least most of the term of his contract. Pretty pathetic of him to not take his conditioning seriously, deserves to remembered as a disappointing joke and an argument against guaranteed contracts.
Gainey was far from perfect and late in his tenure he was flat out bad. But MB has been bad pretty much throughout. Letting his core walk for nothing was really bad but MB has so many more strikes against him. Subban trade was terrible, blowing up the good young core he had - in large part due to the mistake of hiring MT.... just so much fail over his tenure here. Even if you want to say Gainey was bad overall (debatable because he actually did a lot of good as well) he was nowhere near as bad as MB has been for us. MB inherited a great situation to walk into and promptly f***ed it up. He will not be remembered fondly.

Gainey was better for sure and the poll numbers I think in this case are accurate. The real comparison for MB would probably be Houle. Didn't think we'd do worse than him but MB comes pretty close.
 

Scintillating10

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
18,769
8,363
Nova Scotia
Gainey was doing good until his daughter drowned. After that he went right foolish in the head. Starting making bad moves, wasn't devoted to the team
 

swimmer77

More PIM's than Points
Jun 22, 2010
6,674
2,140
in water
No comparison for me. I would take Bob Gainey any day of the week - a man of class and character.

The GM (MB) that wants guys with character would see none if he looked himself in the mirror.

The GM (BG) that has/had all kinds of character actually filled the roster with "characters" and those guys were extremely entertaining.

Bob Gainey had a lot on his plate with his own personal tragedy, the Centennial celebration and "The Darkest Day". He handled a lot.

Bergevin can't even ice a competitive team without much else going on.
 

peate

Smiley
Sponsor
Feb 16, 2007
20,085
14,939
The Island
Bob Gainey was a Hab first and foremost. One of the best hockey players in the world according to Russian great Anatoly Tarasov. As a GM he unfortunately didn't have the same impact, but he did good for the most part. His personal tragedies didn't only include his daughter lost at sea, but he also lost his wife to cancer in that same time period. That's enough to devastate anybody. It would have been understandable if he just retired at that point. I'll never have anything but the deepest respect for Gainey, regardless of the Gomez affair.

Bergevin on the other hand...well I'd rather not talk about it. There's enough evidence to prove his incompetence. The guy's a total moron and completely unqualified for the job. Those who voted for him should hang their heads in shame and quietly hand over their memberships. :shakehead
 

Wats

Error 520
Mar 8, 2006
41,962
6,617
Gainey actually loaded this franchise with youth/prospects and was way more successful drafting/development. He made some dumb trades, especially near the end with the Gomez move, but things were way better in the organization top to bottom.
 

Wats

Error 520
Mar 8, 2006
41,962
6,617
Easily Gainey.Not his biggest fan, but he did bring Kovalev.

Kovalev did more for the habs than anyone else in the organization at every level since the 90s.I miss watching him play greatly.

He brought and managed to keep Kovalev. MB brought Radulov and let him go like a dumbass.
 
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OneSharpMarble

Registered User
Oct 30, 2007
10,579
262
Calgary
The Gainey apologists are out in full force I see. Neither of these individuals should be anywhere close to making decisions for a professional hockey team. Gainey ruined this team for years, he wasted Koivus career on 2nd and 3rd liners and acquired the worst contract in the league for a blue chip prospect. Bergevin has followed in his footsteps admirably with his awful trades and non-moves. I would have to say Bergevin is worse because we are sitting in the middle of the pile of shit he has created and the end isn't in sight. They are so similar though it makes me laugh, if Sergechev becomes comparable to McDonough the circle will be complete.
 
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Harry22

Registered User
Mar 28, 2005
20,534
2,304
Montreal
The Gainey apologists are out in full force I see. Neither of these individuals should be anywhere close to making decisions for a professional hockey team. Gainey ruined this team for years, he wasted Koivus career on 2nd and 3rd liners and acquired the worst contract in the league for a blue chip prospect. Bergevin has followed in his footsteps admirably with his awful trades and non-moves. I would have to say Bergevin is worse because we are sitting in the middle of the pile of **** he has created and the end isn't in sight. They are so similar though it makes me laugh, if Sergechev becomes comparable to McDonough the circle will be complete.

Lmao. Gainey was far from perfect but he brought this franchise from terrible to its best season in forever in 2008. Drafted some of the best players in recent franchise history (Price, Subban, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Gallagher). Has he done mistakes? For sure but Bergevin has not really done anything with any vision what so ever. Inherited one of the best young cores in the league and a 3rd overall pick and prompty did nothing for 3 years then slowly dismantled it to a point of no return.
 

pepperMonkey

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
5,252
1,459
Toronto
The Gainey apologists are out in full force I see. Neither of these individuals should be anywhere close to making decisions for a professional hockey team. Gainey ruined this team for years, he wasted Koivus career on 2nd and 3rd liners and acquired the worst contract in the league for a blue chip prospect. Bergevin has followed in his footsteps admirably with his awful trades and non-moves. I would have to say Bergevin is worse because we are sitting in the middle of the pile of **** he has created and the end isn't in sight. They are so similar though it makes me laugh, if Sergechev becomes comparable to McDonough the circle will be complete.
Umm...hate to say this but if I lost my child I probably would have handled it worse. Sorry, I give him a pass just because of the hell he had to go through.

Yes, he should have stepped down after he lost his daughter, and I know I would have...but that's because I wouldn't have been able to handle anything, including life so I would have gotten fired or forced to step down just because I wouldn't have showed up to work.

Before his personal hell started he was pretty good. And he treated everyone with class. Yes, I would take Gainey 100%, no question.

If he has found his peace and is in able mind and body (and he actually wants to come back), I would consider him back again.

Plain and simple, Gainey has a legit reason for his failures, MB has his ego.
 
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OneSharpMarble

Registered User
Oct 30, 2007
10,579
262
Calgary
Lmao. Gainey was far from perfect but he brought this franchise from terrible to its best season in forever in 2008. Drafted some of the best players in recent franchise history (Price, Subban, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Gallagher). Has he done mistakes? For sure but Bergevin has not really done anything with any vision what so ever. Inherited one of the best young cores in the league and a 3rd overall pick and prompty did nothing for 3 years then slowly dismantled it to a point of no return.

Gallagher was drafted under Gauthier. I too am amazed Gainey only managed to throw away 25% of the good picks by Timmons but then again MB can't be that far off that number either. Luckily Gainey abandoned ship before he could destroy the team entirely, the same probably wont be said about MB. I refuse to vote for Gainey as he was horrendous for this team for years and only survived by throwing Kovalevs name up. Both of these GM's were some of the worst in the league and regularly got taken to the cleaners.
 

Harry22

Registered User
Mar 28, 2005
20,534
2,304
Montreal
Gallagher was drafted under Gauthier. I too am amazed Gainey only managed to throw away 25% of the good picks by Timmons but then again MB can't be that far off that number either. Luckily Gainey abandoned ship before he could destroy the team entirely, the same probably wont be said about MB. I refuse to vote for Gainey as he was horrendous for this team for years and only survived by throwing Kovalevs name up. Both of these GM's were some of the worst in the league and regularly got taken to the cleaners.

Your post is so bad, I won't even argue with you.
 
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OneSharpMarble

Registered User
Oct 30, 2007
10,579
262
Calgary
Umm...hate to say this but if I lost my child I probably would have handled it worse. Sorry, I give him a pass just because of the hell he had to go through.

Yes, he should have stepped down after he lost his daughter, and I know I would have...but that's because I wouldn't have been able to handle anything, including life so I would have gotten fired or forced to step down just because I wouldn't have showed up to work.

Before his personal hell started he was pretty good. And he treated everyone with class. Yes, I would take Gainey 100%, no question.

If he has found his peace and is in able mind and body (and he actually wants to come back), I would consider him back again.

Plain and simple, Gainey has a legit reason for his failures, MB has his ego.

Before the loss of his daughter he was also terrible but apparently he gets a free pass by some. The fact you would take him back makes me throw up in my mouth a little but it makes me happy to see the habs runs by the current buffoon because it's truly what the fanbase deserves. After Montreal ran Gauthier out of town on a rail I felt like Gainey should make a reappearance and here he is in all his glory. The same GM who has an abundance of excuses, only makes non-moves or awful trades and continually ruins careers.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
Gainey was far from perfect and late in his tenure he was flat out bad. But MB has been bad pretty much throughout. Letting his core walk for nothing was really bad but MB has so many more strikes against him. Subban trade was terrible, blowing up the good young core he had - in large part due to the mistake of hiring MT.... just so much fail over his tenure here. Even if you want to say Gainey was bad overall (debatable because he actually did a lot of good as well) he was nowhere near as bad as MB has been for us. MB inherited a great situation to walk into and promptly ****ed it up. He will not be remembered fondly.

Gainey was better for sure and the poll numbers I think in this case are accurate. The real comparison for MB would probably be Houle. Didn't think we'd do worse than him but MB comes pretty close.

I agree MB's record speaks for itself, but how did he blow up the young core he had when they are all here except for PK? Price/Max/AG/Galley are all still with the habs. One trade is not blowing up a core.

And Gainey inherited a very good core himself. Markov/Beau/Komi/Hainsey/Souray. Koivu/Ribs/Pleks. Kots/Ryder/Higgins. Much more solid than what MB inherited. Both essentially got the same results from solid young cores they inherited.

6 years and where we are at reflects very badly on MB. I think both are equal. And Martin/Carbo were just as bad hires as MT so neither can point to great coaching decisions either.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
The Gainey apologists are out in full force I see. Neither of these individuals should be anywhere close to making decisions for a professional hockey team. Gainey ruined this team for years, he wasted Koivus career on 2nd and 3rd liners and acquired the worst contract in the league for a blue chip prospect. Bergevin has followed in his footsteps admirably with his awful trades and non-moves. I would have to say Bergevin is worse because we are sitting in the middle of the pile of **** he has created and the end isn't in sight. They are so similar though it makes me laugh, if Sergechev becomes comparable to McDonough the circle will be complete.

agree with this.

Add in losing Ribs/Beau/Hainsey and not trading Souray and ya the picture isn't so rosey. The guy basically lost a 1C and 2/3/4 Dmen for nothing.

It comes down to popularity contest. Since Gainey was well liked and popular people play up his positives. MB traded away PK so he is persona non grata. Both achieved the same amount of sucsess/failure and neither were that great.

MB though signed Price's contract so that automatically makes him worse.
 

pepperMonkey

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
5,252
1,459
Toronto
Before the loss of his daughter he was also terrible but apparently he gets a free pass by some. The fact you would take him back makes me throw up in my mouth a little but it makes me happy to see the habs runs by the current buffoon because it's truly what the fanbase deserves. After Montreal ran Gauthier out of town on a rail I felt like Gainey should make a reappearance and here he is in all his glory. The same GM who has an abundance of excuses, only makes non-moves or awful trades and continually ruins careers.
Alright, my memory must be fuzzy. What did he do before his daughters death that was so horrible?
Ribs I give you. I was annoyed with that as well, though some would support Gainey on that one considering how Ribs looked like to the world.
 

lamp9post

Registered User
Jan 28, 2007
4,402
1,652
Gainey was far from perfect and late in his tenure he was flat out bad. But MB has been bad pretty much throughout. Letting his core walk for nothing was really bad but MB has so many more strikes against him. Subban trade was terrible, blowing up the good young core he had - in large part due to the mistake of hiring MT.... just so much fail over his tenure here. Even if you want to say Gainey was bad overall (debatable because he actually did a lot of good as well) he was nowhere near as bad as MB has been for us. MB inherited a great situation to walk into and promptly ****ed it up. He will not be remembered fondly.

Gainey was better for sure and the poll numbers I think in this case are accurate. The real comparison for MB would probably be Houle. Didn't think we'd do worse than him but MB comes pretty close.

I thought MB was fine in his first three years. He traded for Vanek, traded for Petry, unloaded Gorges contract for a 2nd, signed Price and Pacioretty to very good deals. Cole for Ryder and a 3rd was also a good deal. He promoted Gallagher and Galchenyuk and things were headed in the right direction. Sure, he also signed Briere and traded for Parenteau, but nobody's perfect. We made the playoffs all three years and even looked threatening in years 2 and 3.

The past three years have been a disaster, however.
 

Pickles

Registered User
Apr 25, 2017
2,149
3,769
In the jar'o
Gainey had me until the free agent rebuild. He let so many players walk for nothing and the Gomez trade was a disaster. That being said he's still miles better than Bergevin. Bergevin is a walking talking disaster.
 
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Laurentide

Registered User
Mar 24, 2018
3,249
3,413
Edmonton, Alberta
Lmao. Gainey was far from perfect but he brought this franchise from terrible to its best season in forever in 2008. Drafted some of the best players in recent franchise history (Price, Subban, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Gallagher). Has he done mistakes? For sure but Bergevin has not really done anything with any vision what so ever. Inherited one of the best young cores in the league and a 3rd overall pick and prompty did nothing for 3 years then slowly dismantled it to a point of no return.
This is something that needs to be talked about more if you're going to debate which one of Gainey or Bergevin are better/worse than the other. What sort of a team did they inherit from their predecessors? I'd wager that Gainey had much more grunt work to do coming in than Bergevin, who inherited a team with some nice pieces (most of whom were brought in by Gainey, by the way) The team that Gainey inherited resembled the kind of team that Bergevin has now: rudderless and mired in its own excrement.

Gainey wasn't perfect, but he was better than this clown. Hell, I'd hire him back this afternoon just to be rid of Bergevin.
 

Laurentide

Registered User
Mar 24, 2018
3,249
3,413
Edmonton, Alberta
Alright, my memory must be fuzzy. What did he do before his daughters death that was so horrible?
Ribs I give you. I was annoyed with that as well, though some would support Gainey on that one considering how Ribs looked like to the world.
I never shed a tear over the loss of Ribs or Lapierre. They were both clowns who had no business wearing the jersey. Punks.
 
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Nashy

Living on Fish Island
Feb 2, 2006
18,800
2,036
Toronto
I never shed a tear over the loss of Ribs or Lapierre. They were both clowns who had no business wearing the jersey. Punks.

Ribeiro rolling around on the ice pretending to be hurt was one of the worst things I've ever seen.....and if I remember correctly he was the "addition through subtraction"......return was garbage, but he had to go.

Guys like Lapierre are a dime a dozen.
 
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Laurentide

Registered User
Mar 24, 2018
3,249
3,413
Edmonton, Alberta
Ribeiro rolling around on the ice pretending to be hurt was one of the worst things I've ever seen.....and if I remember correctly he was the "addition through subtraction"......return was garbage, but he had to go.

Guys like Lapierre are a dime a dozen.
That did it for me too. You can't sit there and whine about how the Bruins and Leafs pull crap like this and then turn a blind eye when one of your own players does it without even trying to hide the fact that he's faking it. How can you cry about not getting penalty calls when your players are hit when referees can't be sure if the guy rolling around on the ice is hurt for real or just trying to make them look foolish? Ribeiro was a disgrace to the uniform. He had no honor.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
This is something that needs to be talked about more if you're going to debate which one of Gainey or Bergevin are better/worse than the other. What sort of a team did they inherit from their predecessors? I'd wager that Gainey had much more grunt work to do coming in than Bergevin, who inherited a team with some nice pieces (most of whom were brought in by Gainey, by the way) The team that Gainey inherited resembled the kind of team that Bergevin has now: rudderless and mired in its own excrement.

Gainey wasn't perfect, but he was better than this clown. Hell, I'd hire him back this afternoon just to be rid of Bergevin.

I have mentioned it many times but Gainey inherited a very good group, probably better than what MB did, and a lot less garbage too.

Gainey got Markov/Beau/Hainsey/Komi/Souray. That is a strong D core.
On forward he had Koivu/Ribs/Pleks/Ryder/Higgins + 10th OVA in one of the BEST drafts in history. Decent enough forward group and best group of C's habs have had since 93.

Its a myth to say Gainey didn't inherit much, he inherited a very strong group. He went on to lose Ribs/Hainsey/Beau for basically nothing and wasted Koivu away for most of his time here. He drafted Kots when we could of had franchise players, Centers.

He also inherited a goalie who came off winning a Vezna and Hart 2 seasons previous. Laugh at Theo all you want but he had the hardware to his name. Price isn't looking much better than Theo these days is he?

MB got PK(=to Markov), an old Pleks, an old Markov, Max (best scorer for habs in a while but playoff ghost) Galley (good player) and the 3rd OVA in a bad draft (1st and 2nd OVA look like busts). He inherited a young punk in Price who was living off his hype and took 2 years to finally put it together under Waite and win some hardware.

Aside from PK fanatics I don't see how you anyone could say MB inherited a better group of players than MB did.

Coaches, BG was better at hiring AHL coaches I will give him that. NHL coaches. MT vs Martin/Carbo, both are losers in that battle.

I still think MB is worse due to Price's contract and the way the team has performed the last 3 years.
 

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