Gainey vs Bergevin

Who is / was a better GM?


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    141

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
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1- you completely left out one of his main points, having Markov for about half a season out of 2 seasons. How Scrubadams of you. You'll never change.

2- what the flying F are you babbling on about Cunneyworth being seen as a savior?? That's some major historical revisionism. Par for the course when it comes to you.

Ok no Markov, does that excuse MT's epic collapse with no Price? I give a point for no Markov but the habs still would of played boring uninspried hockey under Martin.

As far as point 2 I remember back in those days and fan base/media were ecstatic to get Cunnyworth simply because he wasn't Martin. The only historical revisionism is to pretend that Martin was a beloved coach by the fan base. The guy was hated here and when he got the boot everyone was elated so much so that they were tricked into thinking Randy was an upgrade.

Why the sudden love for Martin all of a sudden? Was his love affair for Begin, his boring defense first hockey and barely making the playoffs that enthralling? Sure he might look better than MT on the outside, but in reality both were in the same mold. Low scoring boring hockey that the fans hated.

I am not saying MT is a genius coach, just that neither hire by either GM was some epic move and Gainey/MB's coaching choices were equally bad. Gainey promoted Julien which was a good move (then fired him which was bad). MB hired Julien a coach who won a cup and went to a final. That cancels itself out. So you are left with Martin/Carbo vs MT. I don't see how any GM wins in that fight.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
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Nobody looked at Cunneyworth as a savior. He was being run out of town before his first game. Martin was fired because Gauthier was an idiot who was doing random moves at random times. Firing Martin being the worst of the bunch.

At the time people were excited for Cunnyworth, they thought he would get the habs away from Martins boring defense style. Probably being English played a role too (rebel against the system right).

Gauthier was an idiot, fired the assitant during practice. Kabrle for Spacek, and on and on. But its not like the Martin fireing was like when Jersey fired Julien while the team was in first place. The team was outside of the playoffs and had just been ousted in the first round the year before to the hated Bruins. Before that his team made the playoffs by 1 pt. Maybe if Martin isn't fired the team scrapes into the playoffs but they were in tough that year and to me at least it seemed like the team just wanted to tank it anyways and Gauthier was a dead man walking.
 

Fish on The Sand

Untouchable
Feb 28, 2002
60,203
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Canada
At the time people were excited for Cunnyworth, they thought he would get the habs away from Martins boring defense style. Probably being English played a role too (rebel against the system right).

Gauthier was an idiot, fired the assitant during practice. Kabrle for Spacek, and on and on. But its not like the Martin fireing was like when Jersey fired Julien while the team was in first place. The team was outside of the playoffs and had just been ousted in the first round the year before to the hated Bruins. Before that his team made the playoffs by 1 pt. Maybe if Martin isn't fired the team scrapes into the playoffs but they were in tough that year and to me at least it seemed like the team just wanted to tank it anyways and Gauthier was a dead man walking.
Gauthier wasn't trying to tank that season by firing Martin. It just turned out that way. He made the stupid Kaberle trade like a week before. He didn't decide to tank until months later when it was clear the season was down the toilet and even then all he did was unload pending UFAs.
 

cujo1117

Registered User
Mar 30, 2018
643
649
with gainey on board...he brought back hope. He took a poor team and went all in in the centennial season. that season with the way we started...we had every reasons to believe that we may have a shot. alson with the most part of his tenure we had a fun team to watch. Gainey had his faults but atleast the guy tried and and the first time since 1993 we were in the right track
 
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scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
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Gauthier wasn't trying to tank that season by firing Martin. It just turned out that way. He made the stupid Kaberle trade like a week before. He didn't decide to tank until months later when it was clear the season was down the toilet and even then all he did was unload pending UFAs.

I mean the organization decided to tank. Thats why they fired Martin with being a few points out of the playoffs. I don't think they realistically thought Cunnyworth was going to turn the team around. Cynically I think they hired an english coach to turn the heat up not off.

Firing Martin to me at least was throwing up the white flag and that day Gauthier was as good as fired himself. He was left to basically sell whatever he could and then the team was going to clean house.
 

Fish on The Sand

Untouchable
Feb 28, 2002
60,203
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I mean the organization decided to tank. Thats why they fired Martin with being a few points out of the playoffs. I don't think they realistically thought Cunnyworth was going to turn the team around. Cynically I think they hired an english coach to turn the heat up not off.

Firing Martin to me at least was throwing up the white flag and that day Gauthier was as good as fired himself. He was left to basically sell whatever he could and then the team was going to clean house.
If they fired Martin later in the year I'd agree, or at least allow for it as a possibility, but the Kaberle completely removes this as a possibility. Also killing that as a possibility is the Cammalleri trade. The fact that one happened before and one happened after shows that Gauthier was still aiming for the playoffs, but he had no clue what he was doing. If they were going to torpedo the season they would have held Spacek until the deadline and moved him for a pick, and rather than trading for someone like Bourque would have targeted picks and prospects for Cammelleri.
 
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Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,164
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When Gainey left, he had Pacioretty & Subban in the cupboard.

Only Gallagher from the 2008-2011 4 year draft pool. Brutal! Gainey tried and it didn’t work. We were not left with much after Price, Subban, Patch and we have nothing to show for MacDonagh. Gomez is one of our worse trades in history.

I was a fan of Gainey and he’s well respected. Bergevin is on the same path.. he’s struggling lately but the respect level is not the same. That’s what happens when you trade a popular and talented player like Subban.

Mistakes made by both because of thirst for another cup! Both are nothing to brag about really
 

MasterMatt25

Registered User
Nov 19, 2014
3,709
2,503
Montreal
Lol what. The Beauchemin thing was Columbus breaking a hand shake deal that all GMs had during the lock out and then after that happened, the NHL created a hard rule.

Bergevin is the worst GM we've had and Houle is second worst. Gaineys not in the conversation. I didn't like him losing free agents for nothing either but he took us from garbage and created a competitive team and young core.

The team we had with Koivu Kovalev Ryder Higgins Latendressse and the Kostitsyns. Miles better than anything we've seen in Montreal since he's been gone.
Houle is way worse than Bergevin.

Also what about the Beauchemin thing?
 

peate

Smiley
Sponsor
Feb 16, 2007
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The Island
Houle is way worse than Bergevin.

Also what about the Beauchemin thing?
Houle was thrown into a position he probably didn't want. His hand was forced in the Roy affair. If you listen to him talk, he sounds intelligent and coherent, not like purple pants. I'd take him back over Berg any day.
 
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cujo1117

Registered User
Mar 30, 2018
643
649
love those days when gainey had meetings with kovalev ounce a year to step up his game and stop beeing lazy out there. Kovalev would show up like a beast the next few game.

i wouldve love to seen how he wouldve handled the pk situation if he was still the gm
 
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G0bias

Registered User
Oct 4, 2007
7,745
5,980
MTL
We had Robert friggin Lang as our 3rd center at some point. Our "best" center, Danault, would be a 4th line C on that team.

Tanguay-Koivu-Kovalev
Higgins-Plekanec-Latendresse
A.Kostitsyn-Lang-S.Kostitsyn

We can flame Gainey all we want for not finding a 1C either but his teams were deep.
 
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Spearmint Rhino

Registered User
Sep 17, 2013
8,851
8,484
Went with Gainey

I think they both started out ok and both went Full Simple Jack when they got desperate, just Gainey had enough humility to realise he was no longer part of the solution and resigned

MB continues to be delusional
 
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