from 11 to 10

[bleedgreen]

what's the population of Hartford, out of curiosity?

the link above listed it as just under 1.2 mill. i havent checked anywhere else, but it sounds about right.

 

[Sotnos]

Not that this is a major league professional franchise, but Las Vegas has an Arena Football League team, the Gladiators. Here's a little about the arena they play in, it says it's where the IHL team played, but I didn't see the capacity listed anywhere. http://lvgladiators.com/arena/

 

[S.S. Giggy]

I think there should be more teams in Canada. After all, it is a Canadian sport.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Not that this is a major league professional franchise, but Las Vegas has an Arena Football League team, the Gladiators. Here's a little about the arena they play in, it says it's where the IHL team played, but I didn't see the capacity listed anywhere. http://lvgladiators.com/arena/

It is called the Thomas & Mack Center and which was completed in 1983 at a cost of nearly $30 million located on the campus of the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. According to the website there are 20 luxury suites with seating foir up to 20 people in some.

Maximum seating capacity is 18,776 for basketball. The largest attendance at an event was 20,321 at a basketball game featuring the UNLV Runnin' Rebels vs. Navy. The Las Vegas Thunder played there for six seasons.
http://www.thomasandmack.com/arenainfo/history.php

 

[B-MEL]

Anahiem

 

[Sotnos]

Maximum seating capacity is 18,776 for basketball. The largest attendance at an event was 20,321 at a basketball game featuring the UNLV Runnin' Rebels vs. Navy.

Thanks! Didn't have time to look it up when I posted before. Nice looking place too!

Might be big enough for hockey. Depends on if you have obstructed-view seats or not.

Anahiem

Hmm, I think someone didn't bother even reading the first post.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Seattle is not that close to Vancouver. Its at least a 2 hour drive when you consider customs and traffic, which is far worse than a number of other hockey markets (its really not that different than Buffalo and Toronto, IMO). If you want to see a game in Seattle, you are really going to drive to Vancouver? Maybe a few would, but I think there is great potential here. Seattle has the population, affluence and enough exposure to Canada that it would be the ideal US hockey market.

Now Las Vegas? With all the other entertainment venues available, you think tourists would go see a game in Las Vegas?

Geographical distance is not the issue most likely.

Seattle falls under the Vancouver Canuck's territorial rights, Portland does not.

Theoretically, there could be a franchise in Seattle if it comes down to it, but I can see Vancouver incurring a 5m-10m territorial rights fee just like Toronto and Buffalo.

So an investor would just set the franchise down in Portland and not have to deal with any of that.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

What would the team be called in Vegas?? The Las Vegas Gamblers.

Please welcome your Las Vegas Siegfried-eating-tigers !

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Personally I don't want to see a team in LV, it just doesn't work or feel right.

I'm very open to KC, Winnipeg, and northern US franchises like N/S Dakota, etc. Houston is a great idea, the league needs more rivalries. Dallas vs Houston would be fantastic, just like Edm-Cgy, NYR-NYI, and the bloodbath known as MTL vs QBC. The Leafs and Sens games have always been entertaining as of late.

 

[WHARF1940]

the team didnt fail, karmanos bought the team, lying about his intentions to keep it there - and moved it. if the other group had bought the whale from the cda, there is no reason to think they wouldve left (that groups offer included a 20 year no leave clause). hartford wouldve built a new arena for them....the deal was almost agreed upon when the negotiations collapsed. hartford has since built a football stadium and is building a huge convention center. it is also if not the largest, then amongst the largest market without a pro team of any kind. the only thing standing in the way is bettmans global expansion plan and the rangers basically owning CT.

I've heard rumors that the rags are going to move the wolfpack to upstate NY........

 

[WHARF1940]

Why is everyone slagging Houston? The Aeros have survived in Houston for how many years, it's a huge city, and Texas has taken to hockey in a big way. I'd say it should be the NHL's #1 future destination.

youth hockey participation in texas has grown exponentially in texas since the N stars moved there...........

 

[Hasbro]

Personally I don't want to see a team in LV, it just doesn't work or feel right.

I'm very open to KC, Winnipeg, and northern US franchises like N/S Dakota, L vs QBC.

No way the Dakotas could support the NHL. Nothing, but missle silos there. Makes an ideal college market though.

I'll stump again for Oklahoma City/ Tulsa, fans there are devoted to the CHL as a pro market the NHL would have it to itself.

I could see Milwaukee, lackluster AHL attendence aside, big hockey state.

 

[firstroundbust]

salt lake city?

what do mormons know bout hockey?

 

[kdb209]

11 possible future NHL cities, omit 1. Which city should be taken off this list.

Winnipeg
Quebec City
Hartford
Portland
Seattle
Las Vegas
Salt Lake City
Hamilton
Houston
Kansas City
Milwaukee

My $0.02. From best to worst.

A-list
-----
Las Vegas - biggest city in NA w/o a major prfessional sports team
Portland - NHL caliber arena and Paul Allen out of the picture
Houston - Largest non-NHL market

Maybes
------
Kansas City - New arena in '07 needs a tenant
Winnipeg - most viable of ex-WHA cities

Unlikely
-------
Seattle - no arena and Portland is a much better Pacific Northwest choice.
Quebec City - would it ever have had a team w/o the WHA merger
Hartford - ditto

No-Chance-in-Hell
---------------
Hamilton - too close to Toronto and Buffalo
Salt Lake City - too small
Milwaukee - see SLC

 

[Icey]

youth hockey participation in texas has grown exponentially in texas since the N stars moved there...........

There are more professional hockey teams in Texas than in the ENTIRE country of CANADA. Who would have figured for such a red-neck, non-hockey state. :

 

[Hasbro]

salt lake city?

what do mormons know bout hockey?

Produced the Konowalchuks.

Too much of Colorado's territory though.

 

[mr gib]

11 possible future NHL cities, omit 1. Which city should be taken off this list.

Winnipeg
Quebec City
Hartford
Portland
Seattle
Las Vegas
Salt Lake City
Hamilton
Houston
Kansas City
Milwaukee

hamilton - too close to leafland -

 

[katodelder]

All of your posts have been amazing and highly informative!
Thabk you all!

I have plagarized and summarized all these great comments into a single post which I will use to start a brand new thread. feel free to check it out and hopefully mistakes and misinformation will be corrected, and bad assumptions and myths will be demystified.

I know this topic has been beaten to death on these boards, but we are at an important crossroads in hockey history and what the NHL decides to do with its failing franchises could help determine the course of the sport in North America for decades to come.

Looking forward to more great comments/posts!

 

[PecaFan]

Seattle falls under the Vancouver Canuck's territorial rights, Portland does not.

Having been there more than a few times, I can guarantee that Seattle is not within 50 miles of Vancouver.

If it weren't for the Arena problems, Seattle would be perfect for Vancouver. The Canucks would absolutely love to have a close regional rival, and some nice short road trips.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Having been there more than a few times, I can guarantee that Seattle is not within 50 miles of Vancouver.

If it weren't for the Arena problems, Seattle would be perfect for Vancouver. The Canucks would absolutely love to have a close regional rival, and some nice short road trips.

Neither is Toronto and Buffalo, yet Buffalo still has to pay rights fees. I dont' think it's 50mi.

 

[tinyzombies]

Rumors out of San Francisco have the SF Giants building and owning an arena next door to SBC Park. There is talk that an arena football team owned by the 9ers will play there.

SF now has 1 mil people and there are about 5.5 mil in the Bay Area altogether, including Oakland and excluding San Jose. People in SF have lots of money as well and there are many transplants from back east.

They are close to the San Jose Sharks though, 1-1/2 hour drive.

They've have a natural rivalry with Los Angeles, Anaheim and San Jose right off the bat.

 

[kdb209]

Rumors out of San Francisco have the SF Giants building and owning an arena next door to SBC Park. There is talk that an arena football team owned by the 9ers will play there.

SF now has 1 mil people and there are about 5.5 mil in the Bay Area altogether, including Oakland and excluding San Jose. People in SF have lots of money as well and there are many transplants from back east.

They are close to the San Jose Sharks though, 1-1/2 hour drive.

They've have a natural rivalry with Los Angeles, Anaheim and San Jose right off the bat.

Where does this "Rumor" come from?

I live in the Bay Area and this is the first I've heard of it. I can't think of any land around Pac Bell Park (I still refuse to call it SBC) that is not already spoken for in development or is a necessity for Pac Bell parking.

And there is no way that the Bay Area could support 2 hockey teams. Hell it can't really support two baseball teams - it's either the largest single team market or the smallest 2 team market in MLB.

And your 1M population number for SF is about 33% too high. Estimates as of 7/1/03:

San Francisco - 751,682 (#14 and down 25K from 2000)

BTW,

San Jose - 898,349 (#10 or #11 - some estimates have it passing Detroit into the top 10 last year)

Yes, San Jose is bigger than San Francisco.

And San Jose and the South Bay is a bigger sports market than SF - the bulk of the Giants attendence comes from Santa Clara and San Mateo Counties. And the arguments of disposable income, corporate support, and transplaned eaterners fits San Jose much more than it does SF.

I won't even go into the demographic issues (large gay and chinese populations that historically do not support sports).

These is ZERO chance of another hockey team playing in SF - hell the IHL Spiders died a quick death in the Cow Palace.

 

[Hasbro]

LA can't support two teams, I would be less optimistic about San Jose.

Hell New York doesn't support it's 3.

 

[Shane]

I think Seatlle would be a great city for an NHL team, and I dont think it's too close, more then two hours, more like three at least depending on what time you go.
Why do you say that they are unlikely to build one? Im not saying thats not true but you sound pretty sure, care to share?

Read MS' post above.

Only way hockey will be in Seattle is if there's a new arena. And given that taxpayers have already paid for a new baseball field, a new football stadium, and a re-do of the Key Arena, all in the last 5 years, it'll never happen.

 

[futurcorerock]

Personally I don't want to see a team in LV, it just doesn't work or feel right.

I'm very open to KC, Winnipeg, and northern US franchises like N/S Dakota, etc. Houston is a great idea, the league needs more rivalries. Dallas vs Houston would be fantastic, just like Edm-Cgy, NYR-NYI, and the bloodbath known as MTL vs QBC. The Leafs and Sens games have always been entertaining as of late.

Easily one of the most ignorant statements on expansion, ever.

Could argue that Carolina, Florida, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Atlanta, Phoenix, Nashville, Southern California each "just don't feel right."

Vegas' success with a franchise could be comparable to that of a team like Columbus' based on the media market available that has no major sports franchises there.