Free Agency and Trades Thread: Post deadline wasteland

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Nylanderthal

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Jun 9, 2010
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One thing that’s been evident is our pushback and physicality up and down the line up needs to be upgraded. I’m not talking about drawing Martin on the fourth line. I’m talking about guys who won’t wilt when the time comes that can contribute in a top 9/top 4 role. Even a Koma level player of 13-16 seasons would be a benefit to us. Rick Nash comes to mind, Kovy another. On the main boards I saw a well regarded poster here make a proposal thread about getting Weber and Shaw from Montreal, Weber’s contract scares me, it if he bounces back from his leg issues and Shaw becomes more of the cup winner we saw in Chicago over what he’s been in Montreal those would be welcomed additions. What other realistic FA and trade targets are out there that can give us that element without giving up much skill wise? No interest in Lucic, that deal is scary bad and we don’t have a Phaneuf level bad deal to send back the other way. (side thought: I wouldn’t go down that road again, but curious to think about what difference he might make on this blue line today.)
I’ve found myself wondering whoever draws into the draft slot Brady tkachuck will go at
could be tempted into a Nylander deal (I don’t want to come off harsh on Nylander at all and still have him in the future plans, but you have to give to get, and I’m not giving up Matty or Mitch.)
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
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It's not the cap hit, whether talking about Nelson or a Zaitsev/Zajac swap, it's the term. Nelson doesn't deserve 7 years. He's a completely average middle six player. One I'd have interest in, but not for 7 years. Maybe 3 years. Zaitsev may not return to form. The Leafs will need a Bozak replacement. Cutting the term from 6 to 3 years could be good for our long-term cap health.

Nylander is a much better Bozak replacement than Zajac.

Term itself is not an issue. The issue with term is giving it to the wrong players for the wrong times. Giving term to guys like Marleau, who are already pretty much at retirement age, or Zajac, who is clearly slowing down (and was not that fast of a player to begin with), is a problem (even if it is only for 3 years); especially when they also come at price tags that are at least 1.5-2 mill more than they should be making. Giving it to guys through their primes and ending it at a reasonable age (33 in both Nelson and Zaitsev's cases) is not a problem unless they have major injury issues (and neither really do), you seriously foresee them falling off of a cliff at a younger age than average, or you overpay them. 3.75 and 4.5 mill respectively are not overpayments for guys like Nelson and Zaitsev. If anything, they are underpayments.
 

SeaOfBlue

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Aug 1, 2013
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Because they aren't available unfortunately.

Would love to trade for
Josh Anderson and Boone Jenner
We have neither on our team right now.

That's why I am chasing Nelson instead. Plays a lot like Jenner. Not as defensively capable, but still more than fine. And the caveat is the Islanders may be gearing up to send a boat load of money Tavares' way in FA and won't be able to afford Nelson, so they'll ship him out like Washington did with Johansson last year.

We have the assets to get him too without having the break the bank.
 

SeaOfBlue

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I do think people are being a tad harsh on Zaitsev.

Like he's been bad this year, but he had a good year last season, and wouldn't be the first player to struggle in year 2 and rebound in year 3.

Here's what I do;

- I think Liljegren very well could be on the team next year. A Hainsey-Liljegren 3rd pairing intriques me.
- Morgan Rielly needs a partner. Can't be Hainsey, Liljegren won't be ready, and we won't be able to trust Zaitsev there. So is that Jake Gardiner? Numbers suggest a Rielly-Gardiner pairing could be effective as their stints together were good. If not, I think we look at moving Gardiner for a RHD.
- The second pairing is fairly easy. Travis Dermott. Nikita Zaitsev. Eventually, that should become Dermott-Liljegren.
- Borgman should be one spare, who can swap in for Hainsey when needed. This season has shown that Hainsey can be a very effective player when he is kept fresh, we can't play him top minutes and 82 games next season. 60 games and bottom pairing will let him be 100% for the playoffs, which is the ultimate goal. Carrick is my other spare, but can see him moved and us signing an FA

Rielly - Gardiner/Acquired Player
Dermott - Zaitsev
Hainsey - Liljegren
Borgman - Carrick/UFA

Nothing extreme, other than potentially moving Gardiner for a different top 4 d-man. However, we get a bit more quality in LIljegren, Dermott for a full-season, hopefully a better Zaitsev, and everyone is where they realistically should be.

My thoughts:
- Borgman needs more time in the AHL. Was mediocre at best in the NHL, and not much better in the AHL. Should stick down there to learn PK and develop his game more to maybe get a mid-season call up. No point in using him as a #7 when he can be a #1/2 on the Marlies.

- Liljegren also need more time in the AHL. Still very raw defensively. He'll be an amazing defenseman right now, but now is not the time to rush him, especially after a injury filled season. Find someone else to put there for a couple of years. I thought Green would work well, because even though I am against giving big money to aging players, if we only got him for a couple of years it is not a big deal. He could allow us to trade Gardiner, since Green could take his role on the PP and at ES. He has playoff experience and a ton of NHL experience he can pass on to Dermott, who I would expect would be his partner. He is a little bit unreliable like Gardiner was, but I would hope that if he doesn't have to play 22 minutes a night against top level competition every night that he can become far more effective. At the same time it's nice to have someone who can play 22 minutes a night if we need him to, especially if we have to let Hainsey rest. Best part is, costs us no assets, just some money during a time when we hopefully have a little bit extra.

- Gardiner-Rielly should never happen ever again. Don't care what the possession stats say, because they only play offensive minutes together and would be a disaster defensively. I can already see Rielly having to essentially camp out in his own zone making sure Gardiner's 100 turnovers don't end up in his own net. Hainsey is a far better option for Rielly. Personally, I would trade Gardiner. If not for a RD to put with Rielly, then for someone much better defensively to put with Zaitsev. People were on board for Klefbom, and I think that could work well for the Leafs. He's not a pure puck mover, but he skates well and is reliable. Him and Zaitsev gives us a 2nd pairing who can still move the puck and maybe even wheel a little bit, but will know what to do when we are hemmed in as well.

- I do agree Hainsey needs his minutes cut down a little bit, because it was clear that he got tired and started to play worse. Getting a good #7 RD who can step in once in a while would be a good idea. Polak would be perfect ;). Ozhiganov and Carrick may also work, but we already know the latter can't play PK so I think he gets traded.
 

MyBudJT

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Mar 5, 2018
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I'd push hard for a Big, RH Top 4 D who can shoot. List of Dmen that fit that criteria aren't that long... two I have in mind are Hamilton or Myers...

Overpay if you have to. We need better quality in our Top 4.


To CGY:
Nylander
1st 2019
1st 2010
Leivo
Carrick

To TOR:
Hamilton
Bennett
 

weems

Registered User
Jul 3, 2008
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I'd push hard for a Big, RH Top 4 D who can shoot. List of Dmen that fit that criteria aren't that long... two I have in mind are Hamilton or Myers...

Overpay if you have to. We need better quality in our Top 4.


To CGY:
Nylander
1st 2019
1st 2010
Leivo
Carrick

To TOR:
Hamilton
Bennett

So we should intentionally just bend over and get crushed in a deal so that we can fill a hole?

That trade offer is so ugly its not even funny.

Nylander for Hamilton is one thing, all that other stuff you added in is just hilarious.

Bennett sucks.
 
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MyBudJT

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So we should intentionally just bend over and get crushed in a deal so that we can fill a hole?

That trade offer is so ugly its not even funny.

Nylander for Hamilton is one thing, all that other stuff you added in is just hilarious.

Bennett sucks.

Its just an example... I'm willing to give up that package if we can get a Top pairing RHD man (Which I think Hamilton will be in the near future).

CGY won't give a player like that away for cheap.
 

weems

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Its just an example... I'm willing to give up that package if we can get a Top pairing RHD man (Which I think Hamilton will be in the near future).

CGY won't give a player like that away for cheap.

Nylander and Hamilton have most likely similar value and Hamilton is much closer to reaching his ceiling than Nylander is.

I get that us getting stomped these first two games is frustrating but lets not make a panicky trade where we give up the moon just so can fill this hole we have.

Thats how you end up on the EDM side giving up an elite talent like Hall for Larsson.

Trading Nylander is NOT the only way to build a stable D. Vegas just took a bunch of castoffs and guys other teams were willing to give away and put together a functional D.

How bout our very high paid management team goes out and finds a underrated player or a guy who needs to have their game built back up (what PITT did with Schultz).
 
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MyBudJT

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Nylander and Hamilton have most likely similar value and Hamilton is much closer to reaching his ceiling than Nylander is.

I get that us getting stomped these first two games is frustrating but lets not make a panicky trade where we give up the moon just so can fill this hole we have.

Thats how you end up on the EDM side giving up an elite talent like Hall for Larsson.

Trading Nylander is NOT the only way to build a stable D. Vegas just took a bunch of castoffs and guys other teams were willing to give away and put together a functional D.

How bout our very high paid management team goes out and finds a underrated player or a guy who needs to have their game built back up (what PITT did with Schultz).

I don't agree. Hamilton at this point is nearly garunteed to be a Top Pairing guy... Nylander is a bit of a gamle at being a 1st line guy, even moreso if he converts to C. Nylander in no way compares to Hall at this point in their respective careers, and Hamilton is >> Larsson.

I know I'm reacting a bit, and my example was just that, and example. All I'm saying is that I'd be okay with overpaying a bit, if it means we can fill a very clear void in our lineup for a quality RHD.

We're not going to get a quality D-man unless we give some serious assets. Thats just the way it is. Our management tried the cheap method of fixing our D <- Hainsey, Borgman, etc... Fact of the matter is, if you're going the cheap route, your odd's are really stacked against you.
 

weems

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I don't agree. Hamilton at this point is nearly garunteed to be a Top Pairing guy... Nylander is a bit of a gamle at being a 1st line guy, even moreso if he converts to C. Nylander in no way compares to Hall at this point in their respective careers, and Hamilton is >> Larsson.

I know I'm reacting a bit, and my example was just that, and example. All I'm saying is that I'd be okay with overpaying a bit, if it means we can fill a very clear void in our lineup for a quality RHD.

We're not going to get a quality D-man unless we give some serious assets. Thats just the way it is. Our management tried the cheap method of fixing our D QUOTE]

Nylander just put up back to back 60pt seasons in his first two seasons. How is he a gamble to be a first line winger? Do you know how many first line wingers didnt come close to that production in their first two seasons?
If he infact does move over to center his value immediately rises.

Theres overpaying (where you give up a tad bit more) and theres overpaying where you clearly just get reckless and spew away assets to get the piece you covet.

I didnt like how you threw in 2 first rounders ontop of Nylander. Either your underrating just how good this guy is going to be or drastically overrating Sam Bennett.

Being patient with Nylander and not getting kneejerky in his 2nd NHL season is most likely the most optimal thing to do.
 

Menzinger

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I don't agree. Hamilton at this point is nearly garunteed to be a Top Pairing guy... Nylander is a bit of a gamle at being a 1st line guy, even moreso if he converts to C. Nylander in no way compares to Hall at this point in their respective careers, and Hamilton is >> Larsson.

I know I'm reacting a bit, and my example was just that, and example. All I'm saying is that I'd be okay with overpaying a bit, if it means we can fill a very clear void in our lineup for a quality RHD.

We're not going to get a quality D-man unless we give some serious assets. Thats just the way it is. Our management tried the cheap method of fixing our D <- Hainsey, Borgman, etc... Fact of the matter is, if you're going the cheap route, your odd's are really stacked against you.

Selling any of Marner/Nylander before they even start their primes is a disaster waiting to happen.

Not to mention teams have gotten better D men than Hainsey in the trade market without giving up a blue chip asset like the big three.z
 

SeaOfBlue

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Selling any of Marner/Nylander before they even start their primes is a disaster waiting to happen.

Not to mention teams have gotten better D men than Hainsey in the trade market without giving up a blue chip asset like the big three.z

Has Hamilton even significantly improved since coming from Boston? Pretty much everything looks the same from the time Calgary got him for a mid-1st and a couple of mid-late 2nd's.
 

Nylanderthal

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Jun 9, 2010
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In regards to the Calgary/Hamilton ideas: got big or go home. Nylander + Gardiner + Kapanen/Johnsson for Thachuk + Hamilton.
Would be willing to add another decent piece to get it it done.
 

Buds17

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Nov 29, 2015
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I'd push hard for a Big, RH Top 4 D who can shoot. List of Dmen that fit that criteria aren't that long... two I have in mind are Hamilton or Myers...

Overpay if you have to. We need better quality in our Top 4.


To CGY:
Nylander
1st 2019
1st 2010
Leivo
Carrick

To TOR:
Hamilton
Bennett

Interesting deal, but I couldn't. Don't like the idea of moving two 1sts in any one deal, even if they're late. Nylander's obviously tough to part with as well. I think we have a number of good pieces in place that just need more time to further develop, but I still don't feel we're one deal - blockbuster or otherwise - away from winning the Cup to be moving that much.

I suspect we could have a fairly different look going into next season in terms of quantity and quality of player movement, but there will likely be a few moves in a few ways (trade, free agency, internally, etc.) to achieve that.
 

MyBudJT

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Vegas just took a bunch of castoffs and guys other teams were willing to give away and put together a functional D.

I know I already responded to this post, but Vegas is an anomoly. They're making 35yr old, career 3rd pairing Derek Engelland look like a #1D. I mean, he's played over 28 minutes in his first two playoff games so far

Guys like Schmidt, McNabb and Theodor would also cost well overa a 1st round pick to acquire...
 

WTFMAN99

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Jun 17, 2009
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I'd push hard for a Big, RH Top 4 D who can shoot. List of Dmen that fit that criteria aren't that long... two I have in mind are Hamilton or Myers...

Overpay if you have to. We need better quality in our Top 4.


To CGY:
Nylander
1st 2019
1st 2010
Leivo
Carrick

To TOR:
Hamilton
Bennett

Uhm, Nylander-Hamilton is a wash

Bennett? Sure I have interest but Calgary probably would want Brown or Kappy. No need to include 2 1sts etc.

I'd do something like Nylander, Brown, 2019 1st, Martin for Hamilton, Bennett
 

Leafin

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Apr 2, 2009
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I wouldn't move Nylander for Hamilton.

I would however trade for Hamilton in another deal. Calgary rumored to want a 1st rounder would definitely be something i'd have interest in. I'd prefer someone that can defend better but i think Hamilton would be a solid piece here.

Bennett is a guy i'd have moderate interest in. Definitely needs a change of scenery and could possibly be a buy low. Not even sure what would be considered fair as a return.
 
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Nylanderthal

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I wouldn't move Nylander for Hamilton.

I would however trade for Hamilton in another deal. Calgary rumored to want a 1st rounder would definitely be something i'd have interest in. I'd prefer someone that can defend better but i think Hamilton would be a solid piece here.

Bennett is a guy i'd have moderate interest in. Definitely needs a change of scenery and could possibly be a buy low. Not even sure what would be considered fair as a return.
Nylander + Brown + Gardiner + 2018 1st
Thachuk + Hamilton + Bennett
Would consider taking Brouwer back, and sending them Martin if need be if the value is not there. I think he could be decent in a limited role for us
 

Magic Man

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Nylander is a much better Bozak replacement than Zajac.

Term itself is not an issue. The issue with term is giving it to the wrong players for the wrong times. Giving term to guys like Marleau, who are already pretty much at retirement age, or Zajac, who is clearly slowing down (and was not that fast of a player to begin with), is a problem (even if it is only for 3 years); especially when they also come at price tags that are at least 1.5-2 mill more than they should be making. Giving it to guys through their primes and ending it at a reasonable age (33 in both Nelson and Zaitsev's cases) is not a problem unless they have major injury issues (and neither really do), you seriously foresee them falling off of a cliff at a younger age than average, or you overpay them. 3.75 and 4.5 mill respectively are not overpayments for guys like Nelson and Zaitsev. If anything, they are underpayments.
In case you haven't noticed Zaitsev already has had concussion issues and he is a completely different player in year 1 of a 7 year deal. If he doesn't rebound that contract is crippling for this franchise. You just don't give 7 years to anyone. It's already a bad contract that's why I'm proposing other bad contracts, because that is his value now.

Nylander also has good chemistry with Matthews, him moving to center isn't a guarantee. It's a back up plan if they don't land a center.
 

weems

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Jul 3, 2008
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I know I already responded to this post, but Vegas is an anomoly. They're making 35yr old, career 3rd pairing Derek Engelland look like a #1D. I mean, he's played over 28 minutes in his first two playoff games so far

Guys like Schmidt, McNabb and Theodor would also cost well overa a 1st round pick to acquire...

Ya they would now (you didnt even mention Colin Miller) but at the time of their selection they didnt have anywhere near the value they currently have.
Vegas did a great job of identifying guys who were better players than many thought or players who were blocked in the lineup from getting more responsibility.
I dont see why a front office like ours cant go out and make a trade for a defencemen that is currently a good player but for whatever reason not getting hype or oppurtunity (you could also throw in guys who are newer to the league).

Nith awhile back threw out the name Nick Jensen of DET. Not a sexy name by any means but I've seen him play some really good games and his skillset is good.

Thats just one example but theres many of these type of under the radar players.

Instead of overpaying to fill a hole why doesnt this star management go out and really show their quality talent finding skills.
 
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MyBudJT

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Ya they would now (you didnt even mention Colin Miller) but at the time of their selection they didnt have anywhere near the value they currently have.
Vegas did a great job of identifying guys who were better players than many thought or players who were blocked in the lineup from getting more responsibility.
I dont see why a front office like ours cant go out and make a trade for a defencemen that is currently a good player but for whatever reason not getting hype or oppurtunity (you could also throw in guys who are newer to the league).

Nith awhile back threw out the name Nick Jensen of DET. Not a sexy name by any means but I've seen him play some really good games and his skillset is good.

Thats just one example but theres many of these type of under the radar players.

Instead of overpaying to fill a hole why doesnt this star management go out and really show their quality talent finding skills.

My answer to that: Because its more or less a pipe dream to expect to find top pairing (or #3 guys) for cheap.
 
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