Free Agency and Trades Thread: Post deadline wasteland

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Sonny21

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Oct 3, 2009
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Funny enough Id actually say Dubas would be a larger counterweight to Babcock on some team decisions than any “old school” type GM just because of the different ways of thinking about the game.

What I’d like to see is somebody who can work with Babcock but also stand firm on disagreements.

I can see him being larger counterweight, but I don't know if he would actually stand firm on them.
That's the thing, we really don't know if he would stand firm on disagreements.

That would have to be the case with whoever takes the next GM position. I just don't feel it's as a community decision anymore, due to the lack of asset management.

Babcock was very vocal about having the team play well so they could force Lou's hand, he back tracked a bit later or I should say more neutral. I also remember in one of his scrums stating that he likes having loud debates internally when asked about what moves Leafs will/should make.

Lou already has shown his track record in New Jersey in post cap era, which is horrible asset management. Just ask New Jersey fans.

I also recall Dubas liking this tweet in which Justin (former Marlies video guy) responded to a tweet around the same time frame of Babcock's comments.



While this is all speculation or guessing game, either Dubas was in agreement with Leafs decisions, or he was simply ignored. I don't know the answer.

Either way, that doesn't breed confidence in me, that's all.
 
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WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
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Because the TDL is done...and St.Louis is floundering...how much do you think it takes to get Pietrangelo out of St.Louis? At the draft.

Nylander, 2 1sts, Zaitsev for Pietrangelo, UFA rights to Brodziak, 2nd?

Leafs will have 2 2nds in this draft and their 2nd next year still.

Sign Rick Nash in the off-season, 1yr 6M?

Nash-Matthews-Hyman
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Johnsson-Tavares-Kapanen
Grundstrom-Brodziak-X
X-Gauthier

Rielly-Pietrangelo
Gardiner-Dermott
Hainsey-Carrick
Borgman

Andersen
McBackUp
 

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
12,617
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Sitting at a desk.
Because the TDL is done...and St.Louis is floundering...how much do you think it takes to get Pietrangelo out of St.Louis? At the draft.

Nylander, 2 1sts, Zaitsev for Pietrangelo, UFA rights to Brodziak, 2nd?

Leafs will have 2 2nds in this draft and their 2nd next year still.

Sign Rick Nash in the off-season, 1yr 6M?

Nash-Matthews-Hyman
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Johnsson-Tavares-Kapanen
Grundstrom-Brodziak-X
X-Gauthier

Rielly-Pietrangelo
Gardiner-Dermott
Hainsey-Carrick
Borgman

Andersen
McBackUp

I am sorry but have you lost your mind?
 

BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
55,037
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Simcoe County
Because the TDL is done...and St.Louis is floundering...how much do you think it takes to get Pietrangelo out of St.Louis? At the draft.

Nylander, 2 1sts, Zaitsev for Pietrangelo, UFA rights to Brodziak, 2nd?

Leafs will have 2 2nds in this draft and their 2nd next year still.

Sign Rick Nash in the off-season, 1yr 6M?

Nash-Matthews-Hyman
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Johnsson-Tavares-Kapanen
Grundstrom-Brodziak-X
X-Gauthier

Rielly-Pietrangelo
Gardiner-Dermott
Hainsey-Carrick
Borgman

Andersen
McBackUp

Better chance St Louis moves J-Bo before Pietro to start shaking things up
 

Barilko14

Registered User
Jul 5, 2006
4,899
129
Renfrew, ON
Because the TDL is done...and St.Louis is floundering...how much do you think it takes to get Pietrangelo out of St.Louis? At the draft.

Nylander, 2 1sts, Zaitsev for Pietrangelo, UFA rights to Brodziak, 2nd?

Leafs will have 2 2nds in this draft and their 2nd next year still.

Sign Rick Nash in the off-season, 1yr 6M?

Nash-Matthews-Hyman
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Johnsson-Tavares-Kapanen
Grundstrom-Brodziak-X
X-Gauthier

Rielly-Pietrangelo
Gardiner-Dermott
Hainsey-Carrick
Borgman

Andersen
McBackUp

So Piet is Nylander and 2 1st better than Zaitsev??

Doubtful St.L blows their team up based on a 10 game slump.

They'd be dumb not to take that package, but I really doubt Piet is available.
 

Phion Keneuf

Bang Bang
Jul 4, 2010
35,198
6,231
Zaitsev’s contract sets him up perfectly to be moved in the future as a piece for a top D.

I think he’s much better than he’s shown this season though.
 

WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
32,835
10,822
Zaitsev’s contract sets him up perfectly to be moved in the future as a piece for a top D.

I think he’s much better than he’s shown this season though.

I totally agree that Zaitsev is a good player, I think in my scenario he'd be prime to go behind Parayko on the right side.

Nylander has went over PT/Game at centre this year

Leafs get their top pairing guy.

Losing Nylander really sucks but Pietrangelo makes the team better. Losing 1sts sucks but having 3 2nds in 2 years is still helpful. Losing Zaitsev sucks but gotta balance the cap. Signing Brodziak gets us a 4th line centre that won't involve us trading a 2nd for for a 3rd straight year.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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St. Paul, MN
I can see him being larger counterweight, but I don't know if he would actually stand firm on them.
That's the thing, we really don't know if he would stand firm on disagreements.

That would have to be the case with whoever takes the next GM position. I just don't feel it's as a community decision anymore, due to the lack of asset management.

Babcock was very vocal about having the team play well so they could force Lou's hand, he back tracked a bit later or I should say more neutral. I also remember in one of his scrums stating that he likes having loud debates internally when asked about what moves Leafs will/should make.

Lou already has shown his track record in New Jersey in post cap era, which is horrible asset management. Just ask New Jersey fans.

I also recall Dubas liking this tweet in which Justin (former Marlies video guy) responded to a tweet around the same time frame of Babcock's comments.



While this is all speculation or guessing game, either Dubas was in agreement with Leafs decisions, or he was simply ignored. I don't know the answer.

Either way, that doesn't breed confidence in me, that's all.


Perhaps, but if Lou has ability to override Dubas at present (which he likely does) that doesn’t necessarily mean that dubas would follow the same path if given more authority.
 

Barilko14

Registered User
Jul 5, 2006
4,899
129
Renfrew, ON
Not sure why people are still holding out hope JVR is re-signed?

There has not been any contract talks to this point.

His ice time has dropped in every season that Babs has been here.

He's sought out advice from several other NHLers on what to expect as an UFA.

I'd take him back at $5m per for decent term as well, but there are pretty well no signs pointing towards that even being an option this summer.

Additionally, imo the home town discount expired once the season started. He'll be able to get 6-7m as a UFA, he's not going to settle for $5m now.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
40,975
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St. Paul, MN
I just feel, and I could be wrong - that at the end of the day, Lou says what, and everyone is like okay.
people have a voice, but Lou's rule (except for Shanahan, and i'd say anyone else who has a team president) is law at the end of the day.

it's not just about a vet. i just want them to get the best guy, go through the process. like why is Dubas the best choice? can anyone say so, other than going "well we groomed him etc?" i just want us to make sure is all.

I thinks fair (nobody should be gifted a job), but at the same time I don’t think Shanahan will just hand over GM duties to Dubas without ensuring he's the right candidate

But at the same time, I suspect an internal promotion will be a better choice than an external candidate simply because I’d rather be Leafs “stay the course” than engage in any major shakeups.

and with all that said I predict that Lou is likely “quietly” extended in the offseason for another year to give Shanahan some breathing room to make one of the bigger decisions he’s had to make.
 

Sonny21

Registerd User
Oct 3, 2009
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503
Perhaps, but if Lou has ability to override Dubas at present (which he likely does) that doesn’t necessarily mean that dubas would follow the same path if given more authority.

Absolutely. That's why it's more of a unknown thing for me in terms of standing firm on his counterpoints even if it was a case of Dubas getting ignored (asset management) against someone like Babcock.

Since I didn't like Leafs decisions with trade deadline, Dubas gets grouped in since his part of it. But you're right, doesn't mean Dubas follows same line of thinking if he was the GM.

The question is, how confident are you even if that was the case, he would stand up and stand firm/override Babcock?

So for me, it's first wanting to know if he was in agreement with Leafs decisions (not trading JVR and etc and using those assets to upgrade D), if he was, I don't want him (purely personal opinion, not based on right/wrong).

If he was ignored as he disagreed with that approach, can he stand firm against Babcock?

I would need clarity on those 2 things, before I change my opinion.
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
17,986
8,088
I just feel, and I could be wrong - that at the end of the day, Lou says what, and everyone is like okay.
people have a voice, but Lou's rule (except for Shanahan, and i'd say anyone else who has a team president) is law at the end of the day.

it's not just about a vet. i just want them to get the best guy, go through the process. like why is Dubas the best choice? can anyone say so, other than going "well we groomed him etc?" i just want us to make sure is all.

Who else would be though? The whole point is he was identified as a gm in the soo. Then brought in. Has learned from the best. Has been evaluated every step of the way. He runs the Marlies. He ran the picks for the 2015 draft. They see him everyday. He was recruited by 2 teams and was not allowed.

So they see him everyday and he excels, or they let him walk. Who else? A big name just because they are a big name? Burke was a big name. People hated him. Chia was a big name for Edmonton.

How will you evaluate them?
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Not sure why people are still holding out hope JVR is re-signed?

There has not been any contract talks to this point.

His ice time has dropped in every season that Babs has been here.

He's sought out advice from several other NHLers on what to expect as an UFA.

I'd take him back at $5m per for decent term as well, but there are pretty well no signs pointing towards that even being an option this summer.

Additionally, imo the home town discount expired once the season started. He'll be able to get 6-7m as a UFA, he's not going to settle for $5m now.
Even if there was contract talks going on I highly doubt it would be leaked out because stuff like that Lou Lamoriello is good at keeping from the media until it actually happens. So what I'm saying is maybe there has been contract talks that we don't know about.
 

hullsy47

Registered User
Dec 7, 2005
6,338
1,043
Absolutely. That's why it's more of a unknown thing for me in terms of standing firm on his counterpoints even if it was a case of Dubas getting ignored (asset management) against someone like Babcock.

Since I didn't like Leafs decisions with trade deadline, Dubas gets grouped in since his part of it. But you're right, doesn't mean Dubas follows same line of thinking if he was the GM.
trust me this management know the moves its going to make already ,good players want to come here ,to win ,but part of good players is their wil win in an environment ,playing in Toronto is like playing soccer in ROME or Manchester ,or RIO ,or mexico city ,good players like to win but deep down love the stage .
problem is u gotta find the right guys ,who don't accept losing lightly .memorial ,cup Olympic gold ,world championship MVP ...calder cup ,gimme 20 guys like that ,give em a world stage and u watch ....


So for me, it's first wanting to know if he was in agreement with Leafs decisions (not trading JVR and etc and using those assets to upgrade D), if he was, I don't want him (purely personal opinion, not based on right/wrong).

If he was ignored as he disagreed with that approach, can he stand firm against Babcock?

I would need clarity on those 2 things, before I change my opinion.
 

hockeynorth

Registered User
Aug 31, 2017
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Absolutely. That's why it's more of a unknown thing for me in terms of standing firm on his counterpoints even if it was a case of Dubas getting ignored (asset management) against someone like Babcock.

Since I didn't like Leafs decisions with trade deadline, Dubas gets grouped in since his part of it. But you're right, doesn't mean Dubas follows same line of thinking if he was the GM.

The question is, how confident are you even if that was the case, he would stand up and stand firm/override Babcock?

So for me, it's first wanting to know if he was in agreement with Leafs decisions (not trading JVR and etc and using those assets to upgrade D), if he was, I don't want him (purely personal opinion, not based on right/wrong).

If he was ignored as he disagreed with that approach, can he stand firm against Babcock?

I would need clarity on those 2 things, before I change my opinion.
Personally, I love the 2015 draft and I see it as one of our best and we all know dubas had large control over that one. I also know dubas hasn’t helped with the solar bears and Marlies, see mason marchement, he has been able to find relative unknowns. It’s all personal opinion at this point but I’m hoping for dubas
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
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Zaitsev’s contract sets him up perfectly to be moved in the future as a piece for a top D.

I think he’s much better than he’s shown this season though.

I think given that we already have Rielly +Dermott as LHD, and what Gardiner will likely cost to retain, he is the one we'd ideally like to move instead of Zaitsev.

Gardiner's value is also arguably as high as it's ever been, with back-to-back career years offensively. Could move him to a 3rd party for a good package of assets, and then flip that package + other pieces for a long-term upgrade on the blueline.

If we're going to trade for a top D, I think that's the best way to use the value of a guy we probably aren't keeping long-term anyway. Ottawa did this with Turris to get Duchene for example - it hasn't exactly worked out for them because their player evaluations were off, but the principle is the same.
 

Barilko14

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Jul 5, 2006
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Renfrew, ON
Even if there was contract talks going on I highly doubt it would be leaked out because stuff like that Lou Lamoriello is good at keeping from the media until it actually happens. So what I'm saying is maybe there has been contract talks that we don't know about.

Mirtle has done some pretty good digging on the topic, he's not going to write there has been zero talks if he wasn't confident that's the case.
They were pretty open in their desire to re-sign a couple years ago.
Babcock even let it slip a week before the deadline that they were back and forth on keeping or trading JVR before the deadline.

I really doubt that Babcocks 9 or 10th most used fwd at 5v5 is staying here another 5+ years at $6m or more, no matter how good he is on the PP. I just don't see it.
 
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613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
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I really doubt that Babcocks 9 or 10th most used fwd at 5v5 is staying here another 5+ years at $6m or more, no matter how good he is on the PP. I just don't see it.

Especially when you factor in the expected decline with age. What we're seeing right now from JVR is his absolute peak. He has nowhere to go but down, which probably isn't for another few years, but almost for sure would be with 2-3+ years left on whatever contract he signs.
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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So Piet is Nylander and 2 1st better than Zaitsev??

Doubtful St.L blows their team up based on a 10 game slump.

They'd be dumb not to take that package, but I really doubt Piet is available.

King City boy who plays 25+ minutes per game. Would love to get Piet but not a that price.
 

rumman

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Sep 10, 2008
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So Hornqvist got 5 x 5.3

I would think JVR's price is around 6M.

If he's willing to take some sort of discount (TSN said earlier in the year he was to get longer term, but then Kypreos said about a month ago he wasn't, so... :dunno: ) then perhaps we are looking at something like 5M for 6-8 years
I don't think JVR is in the Leafs plans going forward, why? Because I don't think there's been a peep of any talk of a new contract, not a peep, that's not the actions of a team that want to resign a player of JVR's caliber imo.
 
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