Player Discussion Frank Vatrano II

[PlayMakers]

Vatrano impressed me because he had jump and aggressive and didn't play timid like he seemed to often last year

I've never seen Vatrano play timid. IMO Vatrano always plays with jump and is aggressive. I think folks get down on him because he's supposed to be an offensive player and he seems very streaky. But IMO, he's not just a one-trick pony like someone earlier said. He brings speed, back checking, hitting, and other elements to the game.

It seems like, since he was attached at the hip to Ryan Spooner last year, people are painting them with the same brush, in terms of how they play and I just don't see it. At all. Spooner was poor defensively last year because he didn't like engaging in the physical battles required of centers in their own zone. Vatrano always battles. He stops and starts on loose pucks. He back checks. He covers his point. He hits. And as an added bonus he brings speed and wicked shot.

I agree with you that Vatrano should be a staple on the 4th line right now. At worst. GloryDaze has a thread up about what you want from a 4th line. Well, Vatrano is a guy who can give you what most teams want out of a 4th line (energy, physical play, high compete level) but with the added bonus of being a great shooter and a guy who could slide up.

 

[DKH]

I've never seen Vatrano play timid. IMO Vatrano always plays with jump and is aggressive. I think folks get down on him because he's supposed to be an offensive player and he seems very streaky. But IMO, he's not just a one-trick pony like someone earlier said. He brings speed, back checking, hitting, and other elements to the game.

It seems like, since he was attached at the hip to Ryan Spooner last year, people are painting them with the same brush, in terms of how they play and I just don't see it. At all. Spooner was poor defensively last year because he didn't like engaging in the physical battles required of centers in their own zone. Vatrano always battles. He stops and starts on loose pucks. He back checks. He covers his point. He hits. And as an added bonus he brings speed and wicked shot.

I agree with you that Vatrano should be a staple on the 4th line right now. At worst. GloryDaze has a thread up about what you want from a 4th line. Well, Vatrano is a guy who can give you what most teams want out of a 4th line (energy, physical play, high compete level) but with the added bonus of being a great shooter and a guy who could slide up.

He looked timid to me last season and this was following him around the ice

I saw him in Providence a lot and he was completely different - almost as if he had to much respect for NHL players whereas in the AHL he was confident playing as if he knew he was the best

If not timid then whatever word fits the difference in style and my take on his body language

I would classify him as physical and somewhat aggressive in the AHL but soft in the NHL

Just one persons take but I saw him both places live and saw the difference

 

[chizzler]

No disrespect starting on forth line. Better than the rafters. Having said that, I hope he starts to pop in a few here and there and get some confidence. He needs to get into the right spots to shoot. Too much running around.

 

[BNHL]

So far,all we've seen is someone who was a historic scorer in the AHL score a few goals in the NHL. He hasn't really shown anything else,not hockey sense,defensive acumen,grit,sacrifice etc. He's shown he can shoot a puck,but he has needed lots of shots to score at crazy paces and he needs to do other things to be awarded valuable ice time,as the pace of scoring certainly will be slowed.

 

[ODAAT]

So far,all we've seen is someone who was a historic scorer in the AHL score a few goals in the NHL. He hasn't really shown anything else,not hockey sense,defensive acumen,grit,sacrifice etc. He's shown he can shoot a puck,but he has needed lots of shots to score at crazy paces and he needs to do other things to be awarded valuable ice time,as the pace of scoring certainly will be slowed.

good post, these guys play the game the majority of the time without the puck, which tells me coaches likely want to see good habits formed away from the puck. At the end of the day, he`s in the lineup for his shot, and if he`s not scoring..............only 1 game, but now wouldn`t be the best time for Frankie to get off to a slow start offensively

 

[Beesfan]

I agree with other posters that Vatrano has speed and some tenacity. The big question marks for me are on skill and hockey sense. He can't seem to carry the puck and has limited vision. He is noticeably behind Marchand and Spooner on skill. Too many plays die on his stick.

 

[s3antana5757]

I'm with you. I understand that making him more well-rounded will benefit both him and the team, but at the same time sometimes you have to play to guys strength's especially when we're talking about 3rd and 4th line players who are generally flawed in one or more areas of their game.

I think there's been some really good points made in this thread. Full disclosure: I really like Vatrano and would like to see him as the 4th line LW. I think his ability to score and also be ok to slightly above average in some other areas is worth it. Here's the simple truth though. When you compare a guy like Vatrano to Schaller, there's no question Schaller contributes more to winning every night than Vatrano does. The Nashville game is a perfect example. He's winning draws, killing penalties, making tough plays and winning board battles. Vatrano has 1 shot and 2 minutes in the box.

I coach HS basketball and see the same thing with kids that are "shooters". They run to the corner and wait to chuck 3s. Parents get annoyed because those kids quickly fall out of favor. They have one skill but are so reliant on that one skill that they are useless otherwise. They're also dependent on others to get them the ball. So when these guys are young I always tell them that you have to develop other areas of your game. Defense, ball handling, ability to create your own shot, and just general other skills. I'm sure the Bruins have had a similar conversation. It takes what; a second to shoot the puck. So even if you get 5 shots a game, your entire night cannot be dependent on those 5 seconds. You're going to miss shots or goalies are going to make saves. It just seems that Vatrano hasn't quite developed those other hockey skills yet. I hope he continues to get opportunities and succeed when given those chances, but the competition is steep.

 

[billings21]

I agree with other posters that Vatrano has speed and some tenacity. The big question marks for me are on skill and hockey sense. He can't seem to carry the puck and has limited vision. He is noticeably behind Marchand and Spooner on skill. Too many plays die on his stick.

i'm not that impressed with spooner's skill. he's a flashy skater and that's about it.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

i'm not that impressed with spooner's skill. he's a flashy skater and that's about it.

He's a terrific passer no doubt.

 

[bruinshoper]

i'm not that impressed with spooner's skill. he's a flashy skater and that's about it.

He is fast, gains zone entry easily, fantastic passer with excellent vision.
Winning board battles, and defensive play is where he needs to get better. IMHO.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Vatrano was not that great last year in the back checking category but let him work his way up from the 4th and learn it better. His time is ticking it is up to him. He did play good with Matthews in the Worlds when given more ice. Like to see him with Czarnik and Kuraly.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

I've never seen Vatrano play timid. IMO Vatrano always plays with jump and is aggressive. I think folks get down on him because he's supposed to be an offensive player and he seems very streaky. But IMO, he's not just a one-trick pony like someone earlier said. He brings speed, back checking, hitting, and other elements to the game.

It seems like, since he was attached at the hip to Ryan Spooner last year, people are painting them with the same brush, in terms of how they play and I just don't see it. At all. Spooner was poor defensively last year because he didn't like engaging in the physical battles required of centers in their own zone. Vatrano always battles. He stops and starts on loose pucks. He back checks. He covers his point. He hits. And as an added bonus he brings speed and wicked shot.

I agree with you that Vatrano should be a staple on the 4th line right now. At worst. GloryDaze has a thread up about what you want from a 4th line. Well, Vatrano is a guy who can give you what most teams want out of a 4th line (energy, physical play, high compete level) but with the added bonus of being a great shooter and a guy who could slide up.

I'm with you 100% on this one, Bill.

You should repeat this post so I can like it twice.

 

[billings21]

you guys must be watching a different game than i am regarding spooner's passing. i'd put spooner's hockey iq and actual passing skill at average at best. i'd actually rather have vatrano play his spot on the pp.

 

[LSCII]

I've never seen Vatrano play timid. IMO Vatrano always plays with jump and is aggressive. I think folks get down on him because he's supposed to be an offensive player and he seems very streaky. But IMO, he's not just a one-trick pony like someone earlier said. He brings speed, back checking, hitting, and other elements to the game.

It seems like, since he was attached at the hip to Ryan Spooner last year, people are painting them with the same brush, in terms of how they play and I just don't see it. At all. Spooner was poor defensively last year because he didn't like engaging in the physical battles required of centers in their own zone. Vatrano always battles. He stops and starts on loose pucks. He back checks. He covers his point. He hits. And as an added bonus he brings speed and wicked shot.

I agree with you that Vatrano should be a staple on the 4th line right now. At worst. GloryDaze has a thread up about what you want from a 4th line. Well, Vatrano is a guy who can give you what most teams want out of a 4th line (energy, physical play, high compete level) but with the added bonus of being a great shooter and a guy who could slide up.

Maybe he did that his first season (which is debatable), but last year his effort without the puck was severely lacking. And that's being generous. A lot of the times, he didn't even bother picking up his defensive responsibility after a rush. So while you can like his shot and be hopeful that he develops, he's right where he is because he hasn't done enough to warrant a spot on a higher line and more TOI. Cassidy has it right. Until he gives a more honest effort on both ends of the ice, he's going to stay where he is.

 

[LSCII]

you guys must be watching a different game than i am regarding spooner's passing. i'd put spooner's hockey iq and actual passing skill at average at best. i'd actually rather have vatrano play his spot on the pp.

Never change HF, never change.

 

[ODAAT]

you guys must be watching a different game than i am regarding spooner's passing. i'd put spooner's hockey iq and actual passing skill at average at best. i'd actually rather have vatrano play his spot on the pp.

I watch my games on TV, you? I tend to be tough on Spooner however, his passing and hockey IQ are not areas I question

 

[PlayMakers]

Maybe he did that his first season (which is debatable), but last year his effort without the puck was severely lacking. And that's being generous. A lot of the times, he didn't even bother picking up his defensive responsibility after a rush. So while you can like his shot and be hopeful that he develops, he's right where he is because he hasn't done enough to warrant a spot on a higher line and more TOI. Cassidy has it right. Until he gives a more honest effort on both ends of the ice, he's going to stay where he is.

Man I just don't see it. I see a kid giving an honest effort up and down the ice. This year, last year, his first year. I think he's been very inconsistent offensively, and probably a little too predictable in that regard, so if they reduce his ice time on those grounds I could hear that argument. But I can't recall watching a game and thinking "Vatrano should have tried harder on that one." That's something I've noticed with Spooner. It's something I think fans are going to notice about McAvoy, which is probably sacrilege to say considering how well he's playing and how everyone feels about him. But my impression of Vatrano is that as a pro, he's always been a high-motor guy.

 

[PlayMakers]

you guys must be watching a different game than i am regarding spooner's passing. i'd put spooner's hockey iq and actual passing skill at average at best. i'd actually rather have vatrano play his spot on the pp.

That's crazy talk. Spooner is very skilled. He's got speed, he's elusive 1on1 and he's a fantastic passer. IMO, there's a lot of Savard in Spooner's passing game. Quick, hard passes in motion and off the cuff. As opposed to Krejci's more deliberate slow-it-down-lure you-in-then-dish approach.

Spooner's issue has been that he doesn't really give a full and honest effort on board battles, and like it or not, most of this game is played in the corners, not off the rush. Spooner has looked much more engaged and determined in those situations this preseason so hopefully he's turning a corner in that regard. I don't think he's afraid of getting hit so it's not about overcoming a fear, it's just about being more determined. Winning those battles is all about puck possession. You want to be an offensive player, then you need to possess the puck.

 

[NDiesel]

you guys must be watching a different game than i am regarding spooner's passing. i'd put spooner's hockey iq and actual passing skill at average at best. i'd actually rather have vatrano play his spot on the pp.

You are absolutely right that you're watching a different game than us.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

He looks like he's fully recovered from a serious foot surgery, which is the likely answer of why his effort looks better than last year

 

[LSCII]

If you want to see the lack of effort and desire to play a solid two way game, just look at the game log for Frank last year. His minutes hover around 14-15 per night until they drop off a cliff. Clearly he got in Cassidy's doghouse for some reason, similarly to Spooner. Both guys did not exactly do what was expected towards the end of the year, for whatever reason you want to attribute it to. What I saw was Frank having a high motor only when skating into the offensive zone, but being very lazy getting back on the defensive side. If you didn't see it, it is what it is. I called it out then, just like now. His effort on d sucked by the end of the regular season, which is why his minutes decreased and that carried into the playoffs.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Man I just don't see it. I see a kid giving an honest effort up and down the ice. This year, last year, his first year. I think he's been very inconsistent offensively, and probably a little too predictable in that regard, so if they reduce his ice time on those grounds I could hear that argument. But I can't recall watching a game and thinking "Vatrano should have tried harder on that one." That's something I've noticed with Spooner. It's something I think fans are going to notice about McAvoy, which is probably sacrilege to say considering how well he's playing and how everyone feels about him. But my impression of Vatrano is that as a pro, he's always been a high-motor guy.

I have seen more of Vatrano than most, having watched him at UMass. The changes he has made to his game since that time have been pretty drastic. I didn’t see him when he was younger, but at UMass he was often the offensive focal point on a bad team. On the PP especially, it seemed like all they tried to do was feed him so he could unleash that great shot. He was not a great skater at UMass, I believe in large part due to his lack of dedication to off ice conditioning?

After he signed with Boston and played a few games in PRO, I heard that the B’s told him he needed to get in shape. I saw him play in a late summer charity tournament and he looked like a completely different player. He had dropped 25-30 pounds, his shot was still great, but I saw a passing game that wasn’t on display at UMass. I told DKH and Lou to watch this kid and he tore it up in PRO before coming up and playing well in Boston despite not having a ton of offensive production.

I thought he was primed for a breakthrough season last year, but a training injury put an end to that and left him way behind from a skating and conditioning standpoint. In my opinion, what you saw last year was a result of the injury, not a lack of effort.

He may lose his job in Boston, but I don’t think it will be due to complacency. If it happens, it will simply be because some of the kids in the pipeline played better and passed him by. When the B’s are healthy, I wouldn’t mind seeing a 4th line of:

Vatrano - Nash/Kuraly - Acciari

 

[billings21]

You are absolutely right that you're watching a different game than us.

how long are people going to hold out hope that spooner develops into something better? i wanted to see spooner play more like basically every other bruins fan. the more time that passes i just see more and more why clode never got on the spooner train.

 

[LSCII]

This place kills me. You go to a thread about a specific player and rather than an honest back and forth discussion about said player, posters come in and muddy the waters by pissing and moaning about another player who they feel is worse than said player. What Spooner does or doesn't do is 100% irrelevant to Frank Vatrano. Vatrano got 7 minutes in the first game because he clearly hasn't done enough in the eyes of the coach to get more TOI. How Spooner played or how many minutes he got does not change that fact, and never will. If Vatrano gets more TOI next game, it will be based only on Cassidy liking what he saw in game one. Not what Spooner does or where Spooner is in his development. It's about Frank Vatrano and what he has or hasn't done to earn more time over the other young guys on the roster. Period.

 

[PlayMakers]

I'm with you 100% on this one, Bill.

You should repeat this post so I can like it twice.

This discussion reminds me of Blake Wheeler back in the day.

This board hated Blake Wheeler. "He's lazy. He's poor defensively. He's soft. He doesn't forecheck. He won't go to the front of the net. He doesn't battle..." I didn't see it and it bugged me so much that the next time they played I set up the cpu to record the game and made a video of Wheeler's shifts. The video showed Wheeler doing lots of the little things away from the puck, and he even scored a goal off a screen in front.



Of course, the video didn't have much of an impact. I think it's about expectations. The expectations we have of a player. People expect Vatrano to be a big time goal scorer and when he's not he's a disappointment. Wheeler was big but wasn't a mean SOB like Lucic so he always left fans wanting more. The same could be said for Hal Gill. He was so big, folks wanted him to be a monster and when he wasn't they didn't care that he was quietly effective. He went on to have a very good career and win a Cup in a top4 role.