Franchise in the most Trouble?
- Thread starter Hipietro
- Start date
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Well, hopefully after a few seasons with the salary cap there won't be any franchises in trouble.
Motown Beatdown
Need a slump buster
Wang wont relocate the Islanders. Are you nuts?
thats like Steinbrunner relocating the Yankees.
to answer the question:
Florida and Tampa
probably Florida, they will continue to struggle. tampa got the cup so that might boost hope for a while
Carolina, same deal, the cup gave them life support
Atlanta is low now but I see things picking up for them. basketball team sucks and hockey team is on the rise.
i dont even need to mention pittsburgh *sigh*
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
The Pens will get a new arena (likely in Pittsburgh, almost 100% sure given the minimal required contribution from them to the arena in Pittsburgh in even the worst case scenerio, but somewhere anyways) no matter what and now have one of the richest owners in the NHL. The Pens are no longer a distressed franchise. Within a year their situation will be one of the more stable ones in hockey.
if you think that the salary cap alone will save franchise in trouble then you are mistake. the salary cap simply helps control one factor...
to use the pens as an example...pre-cap when the pens were spending $20 mil and other teams were spending $60 that was a reason for the pens not being competitive but the fact that the rangers, flyers and wings were spending $60 mil had nothing to do with the pens needing a new arena, not getting enough $$ from luxury suites, etc. they needed a new arena before the cap and they still need a new arena with the cap...
and don't forget about the basement cap...there are teams that are now being forced to spend MORE $$ than they did before to get over the basement. well if you were 'losing' $$ spending $18 mil and then they force you to spend $20-25 mil, if nothing else changes you'd be losing even MORE $$. they countered this with revenue sharing and the teams hope to make more revenue by being competitive but revenue hasn't gone up so drastically that they are completely in the clear.
so the salary cap definitely helps, and the biggest way it helps is by preventing the salary factor from continuing to get worst but players salaries aren't the only factor.
is that a minimal required contribution from the city or the team??
and while the POTENTIAL new owner (still not approved by the league) might be rich, i've heard the guy doesn't want to keep the team in pittsburgh. he paid a ton of $$ for the rights to the arena in hamilton and apparently if he had his way he'd move them to hamilton. the league is gonna try to prevent that and force him to do everything possible to keep the team in pittsburgh but i'm not sure how determined he'll be to keep the team in pittsburgh. just cause he can afford to build the arena doesn't mean he will...if he comes in and builds an arena that would be great, i'm just not sure i believe it'll happen.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
I have been to Nashville and they have a good fan base
Hockey just is not catching on in Florida
and on the Cane's board they were over joyed when they sold out the home opener
they will be playing befoer half-full arena come Jan again
but
if the pens do not get that arena in Dec/Jan when the decision comes down--they will move shortly
my guess--to either KC or Houston
KC is building an arena and will be making a push shortly
Hockey just is not catching on in Florida
and on the Cane's board they were over joyed when they sold out the home opener
they will be playing befoer half-full arena come Jan again
but
if the pens do not get that arena in Dec/Jan when the decision comes down--they will move shortly
my guess--to either KC or Houston
KC is building an arena and will be making a push shortly
Sotnos
Registered User
So, what are you basing this on besides your own bias?
Asking you the same question, especially since you've spouted this crap before with nothing to back it up besides "oh I went to a couple games in Florida 5 years ago".
Tampa Bay had the second highest attendance last year, second only to Montreal.
The Islanders had the lowest attendance in the league.
link
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
IOC plan:
Free arena to the city of Pittsburgh, competitive lease to those other teams have.
Current Plan B:
$7 m. per year for 30 years from slots winner.
$7 m. per year for 30 years from slots revenues
$30 m. from state to aquire and clear lands. Also road improvements, etc.
$8 m. up front from Pens
$2.9 m. per year for 30 years from Pens.
Giving up naming rights to city of Pittsburgh which is worth $1.5 m. per year.
Hinted at concession Plan B:
$7 m. per year for 30 years from slots winner.
$7 m. per year for 30 years from slots revenues
$30 m. from state to aquire and clear lands. Also road improvements, etc.
$0 m. up front from Pens
$2.9 m. per year for 30 years from Pens.
Pens keep naming rights which is worth $1.5 m. per year.
All of the above has been committed to in writing. Therefore, worst case that I see is the Pens needing to pony up $2.9 m. per year. Anyone is on crack if they think that the NHL will allow the Pens to move from a hockey town that gets them the 2nd best FOX local television ratings in the entire NHL, and has done so for the last 30 years, over under $3 m. per year. The Pens in exchange get a sweetheart lease that enables them to control the entire arena, including all revenues from concerts, and on and on. Hamilton or anywhere else would have to spend at least $300 m. and likely far more to build a similar arena. Hamilton's arena is crappier than the Pens'. KC has the arena but old cowtown likely could not draw flies to it for hockey, certainly not as much as an established market such as Pittsburgh, And Fox local television ratings = number 2 on the NHL like Pittsburgh does? In KC?
Anyone who thinks that the Pens are going anywhere are on drugs.
We here in Edmonton are talking about a new arena as well. Its not pressing yet, but inthe next couple years we would be due for one as well. I should note that I don't think the team is in any danger of relocating.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
Over joyed? what do you base this on other then your continual argument that hockey won't make it in NC? It was expected, plain and simple, as it is expected of ANY franchise that wins the Stanley Cup. In fact some posters were a bit ticked off that they couldn't get ahold of tickets since it was pretymuch all season-ticket holders, 24 game plan holders and a few people that those people bought tickets for. The only things people were "over joyed" about were the fact that we were raising the banner and that we wouldn't have to put up with drunkfest like we did in the playoffs.
As for the premise that the Canes will be playing to half-full arenas by January, depends on how the team does. The last thing this franchise needs is another 2002-03 type season, and that's how they're starting off. If the Canes even play well enough to barely make the playoffs attendance won't be an issue. Of course, if this was a market like Boston or Buffalo, and they were playing to half-empty arenas in January if the team was in tank mode people on here and elsewhere would be saying that the fans were simply being savvy. Markets like Raleigh and Tampa, if they went through the same issue of an underachieving team drawing mediocre crowds, would be the subject of relocation thread after relocation thread. The fact that they are even now after Tampa has sold out over 40 streight and the Canes just won the cup proves that it's hypocracy at its finest.
Hell, most teams (and the Canes are a prime example) in the "non traditional" markets have among the most lucrative arena deals around. Even if the team itself isn't drawing and losing money, the holding companies they set up are making a fortune off of other events.
Face it, the ONLY team in signifigant danger of relocating right now is the Penguins and if they get the slots liscense then they are getting a new arena.
Bixby Snyder
IBTFAD
If your team wins the Stanley cup you should at least sellout every single game the following season. If there is any question of that happening then that market shouldn't have an NHL team.
Northern Dancer
The future ain't what it used to be.
To much emphasis on attendance. It is revenue that counts, i.e. the price of the ticket, luxury boxes, corporate sponsorship etc. Heck at $20.00 a ticket the Leafs could draw 60,000 a night to the Rogers Centre (Skydome). Attendance unless associated with a high ticket price means squat. Quebec and Winnipeg did not lose there franchises because of attendance.
Isn’t the current majority owner a billionaire from California? Or is he a minority owner, his name escapes me.
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
I know you're not talking about Balsillie...so I'll assume you mean the man behind the man right now...who's name I can't remember either.
Either way, he's nothing more than an investor who has/had no interest in ever actually running a hockey team. He was only in it to a.) help his buddy Mario out and b.) make a profit once the team was sold. Mission accomplished.
All things said, I feel the Penguins will be staying in Pittsburgh but until ground is broken on a new arena in Pittsburgh they are, without question, the most distressed franchise right now. By the end of the season they could be one of the more stable franchises.
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,130
- 8,533
All of us coudn't agree more. Well, the 83.6% of us that showed up do.
Sincerely,
The 15,926 fans on average that saw the Devils at the 19,040 seat Continental Airlines arena in 2000-01.
As far as the ratings you are talking about, how many teams broadcast their games on fox? What teams? I don’t think these ratings would have any impact on whether they move or not. I don’t think they are going to move myself. However if the new owner wants to he will as there are several ways he could go about it. If the NHL tries to block him, fine he could then force their hand. Not sign any free agents, not spend above the cap floor. Only pay the assets he wants to keep then fill in with league min types. Not invest in the franchise. Pull a Wirtz and not air the home games. Attendance would then sag and not make it viable. If he is so set on moving he will find a way. Imagine if he told Bettman if he isn’t allowed to move then at some point he may consider trading Crosby and Malkin for draft picks or the like. While unlikely owners will do what they have to if they are dead set in what they want to do. To say there is no way they wont move is incorrect.IOC plan:
Free arena to the city of Pittsburgh, competitive lease to those other teams have.
Current Plan B:
$7 m. per year for 30 years from slots winner.
$7 m. per year for 30 years from slots revenues
$30 m. from state to aquire and clear lands. Also road improvements, etc.
$8 m. up front from Pens
$2.9 m. per year for 30 years from Pens.
Giving up naming rights to city of Pittsburgh which is worth $1.5 m. per year.
Hinted at concession Plan B:
$7 m. per year for 30 years from slots winner.
$7 m. per year for 30 years from slots revenues
$30 m. from state to aquire and clear lands. Also road improvements, etc.
$0 m. up front from Pens
$2.9 m. per year for 30 years from Pens.
Pens keep naming rights which is worth $1.5 m. per year.
All of the above has been committed to in writing. Therefore, worst case that I see is the Pens needing to pony up $2.9 m. per year. Anyone is on crack if they think that the NHL will allow the Pens to move from a hockey town that gets them the 2nd best FOX local television ratings in the entire NHL, and has done so for the last 30 years, over under $3 m. per year. The Pens in exchange get a sweetheart lease that enables them to control the entire arena, including all revenues from concerts, and on and on. Hamilton or anywhere else would have to spend at least $300 m. and likely far more to build a similar arena. Hamilton's arena is crappier than the Pens'. KC has the arena but old cowtown likely could not draw flies to it for hockey, certainly not as much as an established market such as Pittsburgh, And Fox local television ratings = number 2 on the NHL like Pittsburgh does? In KC?
Anyone who thinks that the Pens are going anywhere are on drugs.
GetPucksDeep
Registered User
What he said -
Go to the Tampa season ticket page - you can buy season tickets for up to 70% off of face in some sections. In Atlanta there are cheap and discounted tickets given away to fill the upstairs on weeknights, yet there are also club seats where the holders must buy full season of both hockey and basketball at $150 a pop. Those seats are empty, but they're paid for (and counted for attendance.) If the team wins, they'll fill up.
In Atlanta, the city owns the arena, but the team owners own the operating rights, and keep every dollar they make after servicing the debt. They sell lots of parking too. When they sell parking, does it go on the books as hockey income or arena income? I have no idea. What about beer?
I know in Atlanta the owners feel if they can win, they can make the dollars work. They felt the salary cap gave them an opportunity to field a competitive team without breaking the bank.
A large part of their job is growing new hockey fans, and that means being involved with local youth hockey and figuring out ways to get people to the arena who've never seen a game. How long should such a process take? How do you measure success?
The bottom line is - if the owners can stomach the losses, then the franchise isn't in trouble.
Yeah, the Oilers are in no ownership problem at all. Hell, this is the most stability they've had since the dynasty in the '80s. They have a good deal with Rexall Place with revenue from non-hockey events and luxury boxes (from what I've heard). The only reason why attendence is in the middle of the list is because the building is the second-smallest in the league. If they had a building the size of the SaddleDome, I would imagine they would sell it out every game.
There will be talk of a new building before the decade is out, I think. Rexall was built in the '70s and is the second-smallest in the league. There won't be a Pittsburgh-style crisis because of the good Rexall deal, but there will be interest given in a more modern building.
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