Foster Hewitt Division Discussion Thread

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"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,776
7,803
Oblivion Express
Is park truly in the 10-13 slot for defensemen all time? Because that seems like a awful amount of talent from one decade in that range.

There are plenty of folks who say he would have owned the league from the blueline had Bobby Orr not existed. Flip him and Larry Robinson on their respective teams and we're probably talking about the two of them in a different light today.
 

rmartin65

Registered User
Apr 7, 2011
2,660
2,143
Although I disagree with the argument that Park's competition was weak (it definitely wasn't), you are forgetting Bill Gadsby, who was a player of roughly the same level as Salming. If that's not top-tier competition, you are using a much too narrow definition of the term.

I was keeping my comparison to the truly elite players- the average or better #1D in this league. Park was going up against far stiffer competition than Harvey.
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
Is park truly in the 10-13 slot for defensemen all time? Because that seems like a awful amount of talent from one decade in that range.
Yes, he definitely is. Brad Park was awesome - a 3-4 time Norris winner probably, if Bobby Orr is a normal great defenseman and not arguably the best player of all time. Park was good enough to beat guys on the level of Pilote and Clancy because he had their offensive ability (he was arguably the best stickhandler in the NHL for certain periods, not unlike those two), but was bigger and sturdier on defense, and an absolute master of the hip check in open ice.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,902
3,557
Edmonton
Couple more points for discussion

- I think my first unit PP is the strongest in the division, that unit will be undoubtedly lethal, and with Schiner as the 5th best player on that unit it should be remarkably efficient in the case the opponent gets into penalty trouble.
- My bottom six is slightly unconventional and I've done a poor job of explaining it's function. I've arranged it so Blake has multiple options to chase matchups if he so chooses.

When defending a lead in crucial situations Blake will likely be deploying. The center is depending on the specific matchup. But this unit should be able to handle heavy minutes in crunch time and perform admirably.

Leswick - Weiland/Sanderson - Stewart

If the opposing team is full of loose cannons

Leswick - Sanderson - Perry

Will agitate and hopefully allow my excellent PP unit to their damage.

So while the pieces are interesting the allow Blake the ability to either establish a strong checking line (To defend leads in crunch time) or a heavy agitation line (To draw penalties and take key players out of the action).

All the while the players themselves are quite excellent at their roles.

Weiland - A strong defensive center with offensive upside.

Sandford - A big physical winger who will crash bodies with the best of them and act as a deterrent for players taking liberties

Perry - An aggressive power forward who will get under people's skin

Leswick - A strong defensive player who will agitate and check with the best of them

Sanderson - A physical defensive center who provdes the Oilers with a center who can dish out some punishment

Stewart - A very underrated pker who is also seemingly a strong defensive player who will help out defensively.

My bottom six is constructed to be a strong compliment to the top 6 I have drafted, completing

A strong defensive spine of centers (Ullman, Weiland, Sandford)

Physical centers (Ullman, Sanford)
Physical wings (Conacher, Sanford, Leswick)
Checking capable wings (Elias, Dillon, Leswick, Stewart)

Which allow my offensive stars to flourish in a Toe Blake style entry into this ATD.
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
If the opposing team is full of loose cannons

Leswick - Sanderson - Perry

Will agitate and hopefully allow my excellent PP unit to their damage.
One of the most "peppery" units out there. If Corey Perry is the nice guy on a unit, they must be pretty unpleasant. Could be a weapon in certain matchups; I have rarely seen "pest" units as useful as this one.

Stewart - A very underrated pker who is also seemingly a strong defensive player who will help out defensively.
He's an underrated player. He was a pretty good ES scorer for a long time, but his career goes back too far for him to be included in overpass' numbers. I think Ron Stewart fits into the group of other great Toronto checking RWs like Nevin and Ellis. Stewart was probably the best PKer of the bunch, but the weakest even-strength player. He's fine at ES in a limited role.

This is generally one of the strengths of your team: it has depth of talent. You don't have obvious weaknesses, so Toe Blake can roll lines in the way he liked to run his teams - high-tempo, no shifts off. Your weakest forward is probably Ed Sandford, and 7 ES minutes/game of Ed Sandford is fine. He was a good, tough, all-around player who struggled with injuries, nice for a small-minutes 4th line role if you don't need the position to fill a special teams role. Went to four straight all-star games on merit.

Your defense is the sneaky strength of your team in spite of the flashy top-6 forwards. There are no obvious areas of weakness. I'm not the biggest Ching Johnson fan, really...I generally dislike defensemen who are as limited in terms of skating and puckhandling as Johnson. But defensively, he pairs very well with Harvey. Probably both the best defensive defensemen of their respective eras, they are the toughest defensive first pairing in the draft, bar none, and Harvey, alone, is enough for the puckmoving to be strong.

Goodfellow as an elite 2nd unit-across-the-board guy. Wentworth is a good #4, as good as guys (like Brad McCrimmon, as you pointed out) taken a hundred picks earlier. He seems to fit well with the more offensive-minded Goodfellow, and is properly playing at right D. How he fell to the 15th round is beyond me. It's not like it's a secret that Cy Wentworth was good.

Third pairing is strong, with Duncan a legit #4 and Rowe a pretty good #5 at this size draft, so both excellent in their roles as #5/6. Thing about Bobby Rowe is that his awards recognition (the PCHA all-star nods) are exactly the same as Lloyd Cook's, so he can't be that far behind old Lloyd, and he won more (won the Cup in 1917 in Seattle, and split the Cup in 1919...I consider this worth half a Cup to both teams, if you're asking). Third pairings matter a lot these days, and this is a quite good one. Again, the big strength of your team is depth. I don't see any bad minutes in your breakdown (except in goal, I guess, where you will almost always be at a disadvantage).

I think you have quite possibly the best skaters in the draft, which, I would add, you pretty much must have if you want to win (and simply having them doesn't guarantee victory...you could still lose to a team with a better goalie). While Hugh Lehman is not any worse than a handful of other bottom-tier starters in the ATD, he is still one of the 3-4 worst starters in the league, so if your skaters don't win it for you, you don't win.

A strong defensive spine of centers (Ullman, Weiland, Sandford)

Physical centers (Ullman, Sanford)
I'm assuming that both Sandford and "Sanford" here are actually Sanderson?!
 
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Thenameless

Registered User
Apr 29, 2014
3,854
1,788
The Beavers team looks really loaded with forwards, and then a great goalie in Plante. Mario Lemieux's line may not play much defense but I am absolutely sure that they would outscore the top lines of the other two teams, even with their superior top defensive pairings - remember that Lemieux has the superior Plante back there as well. On paper, Kevin Stevens does not look like he belongs, but I saw the damage that they did together before Stevens fell into injury and drugs. I would almost prefer to use Bure on another line since he has the ability to score 60 goals without Lemieux.

The third line is a good offset to the offense-heavy top two lines, and the fourth line offers some interesting talent and playoff heroics (though this is regular season only).
 

jarek

Registered User
Aug 15, 2009
10,004
238
Voting is now open for the regular season of the ATD and will close on Sunday, April 1st at midnight EST. Please send your votes to @Theokritos.

Please vote for each division separately. You may, if you wish, compare the teams to teams outside of their divisions in order to rank them, but this is neither required nor encouraged.
 

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