Forsberg does no rule out return to Denver but will a Hard Cap?

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sunb

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jericholic19 said:
Those aren't the 11 players that were talked about in the article.

The article didn't mention which 11 players are signed but my estimates are as close to reality as it will get.

Of those 11 players who make up 40.83 million:

We know for a fact that Sakic, Blake, Hejduk, and Tanguay are signed and they cost 27+ million dollars.

The other 7 players all make around 1 - 2 million dollars and even if I made one or two mistakes, those 11 players' salaries will still add up to 40 million dollars.

Even if I did make a mistake by listing Aebischer as 2.5 or Konowalchuk as 2.0 or Vaananen as 1.0, those salaries will likely go up rather than down.

The point of my post is to illustrate the the Avs are in a bad situation and I think the message got across.
 

bleedgreen

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jericholic19 said:
so, it's certainly possible the avs may lose a couple core players...don't bring out the fat lady just yet (as some are apt to do...bleedgreen, for example, who's on my ignore list). you can't even do a superficial guestimate to determine what the avs roster will look like until a new CBA's done.
thats just sad. why am i on his ignore list? i think im just talking about the facts - nobody else seems to have trouble with it. im an avs fan for the love of god.
 

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Jovanovski = Norris said:
Kariya and Selanne both wanted to win a Stanley Cup. You do realize that Foote and Forsberg have won a combined 4 Stanley Cups right?

Selanne still took 4+ million dollars last year.

Even though Kariya took about 1.25 million last year, he was earning 10+ million dollars per year for the past couple of seasons. Foote can earn a good 4+ million on the open market, why take 0.4 million when he has already won two cups and a third cup isn't even guarenteed.
People seem to like playing here. I doubt Forsberg is going to go to Nashville to make some more money.
 

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Jovanovski = Norris said:
The article didn't mention which 11 players are signed but my estimates are as close to reality as it will get.

Of those 11 players who make up 40.83 million:

We know for a fact that Sakic, Blake, Hejduk, and Tanguay are signed and they cost 27+ million dollars.

The other 7 players all make around 1 - 2 million dollars and even if I made one or two mistakes, those 11 players' salaries will still add up to 40 million dollars.

Even if I did make a mistake by listing Aebischer as 2.5 or Konowalchuk as 2.0 or Vaananen as 1.0, those salaries will likely go up rather than down.

The point of my post is to illustrate the the Avs are in a bad situation and I think the message got across.
The post had them as commited to 30 million next year. I know Laaksonen is signed for next season and Damphousse isn't signed for next year.
 

sunb

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Hasbro said:
People seem to like playing here. I doubt Forsberg is going to go to Nashville to make some more money.

That is definitely true but I doubt Foote is going to earn 0.4 million dollars and take a two year 0.8 mil contract like one Avs fan have suggested.

It is definitely reasonable to see Sakic and Blake each defer 2 million in their contracts to help out the team but I don't think they would choose to let go any more. Sakic would only be earning about 4.5 million if you put in the 25% rollback.
 

sunb

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Hasbro said:
The post had them as commited to 30 million next year. I know Laaksonen is signed for next season and Damphousse isn't signed for next year.

If Laaksonen is signed for 0.85 mils and we take off Damphousse's 2 mils, the Avs total salary would be 39.68 before the rollback and 30.16 after the rollback.

But as a part-time Avs fan who despises Moore and Forsberg, I would rather have Damphousse on board for 2 million rather than Laaksonen on board for 0.85. At least Damphousse is a top 6 forward whereas Laaksonen isn't a great 3rd liner or anything and can easily be replaced with cheap 0.4 mil grinders.
 

bleedgreen

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Hasbro said:
The post had them as commited to 30 million next year. I know Laaksonen is signed for next season and Damphousse isn't signed for next year.
they could really use vince, especially if no peter. i dont think you save enough money from vince to change much. i think the big answer is to trade blake if you can. if you do that, i think you can make the rest of it work. i think forsberg is more of a core player than blake. my problem with this is are you going to go thro-ugh all the effort to figure out the forsberg situation for a guy who you know will have injury problems? and what if he decides to go back to sweden the following year? he threatens every year not to come back, you cant count on him suddenly commiting to three years.
 

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If Forsberg's not around there might be better 2nd line centers around than Damphousse. $2million for a guy who's 37 and spent the year in meetings. I imagine RFA salaries will probably stay the same or drop a bit. This is going to be the most glutted free agent market in history
 

bleedgreen

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your right, but the avs will be so close to the cap they will omost likely be hard pressed to beat some offers. i would hope they could improve on damphousse as well.
 

me2

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http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~84~2716011,00.html

I assume the extras are prospects/players in the minors, and maybe the odd player Frei overlooked. I'm not sure this list is 100% accurate but here goes anyway

Under contract for 2005-06

Sakic
Gratton-Laperriere-Laaksonen-Konowalchuk
Blake-Boughner-Vaananen
$25,490,314



To be signed
Forsberg-Tanguay-Hejduk
*Kariya-Selanne-Damphousse
Hendrickson-Hahl-McLean-Hinote-Worrell
Foote-Liles-Sauer-Skrastins
Aebischer
 

bleedgreen

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some one show jericholic this so i am no longer considered an alarmist freak. frei wrote an article about everything ive been talking about here for weeks now. nice to get some legit backup :handclap:
 

me2

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bleedgreen said:
some one show jericholic this so i am no longer considered an alarmist freak. frei wrote an article about everything ive been talking about here for weeks now. nice to get some legit backup :handclap:

I could see Forsberg coming back for nominal fee ($1m-$4m range). Lets face it, the guys milked 10s of millions out of the Avs so he might just do it for cheap as way of saying thanks. The NHLPA won't like it, but that might not stop Forsberg.

Tanguay, Hejduk are still trying to cash in on their good years. I don't see them being so generous. And with them being their age/skill/wage history the NHLPA will be making sure they don't cave in much.

Foote could go either way, since he's older and well off but no where near as rich as Sakic, Blake or Forsberg. I think he'll evaluate what the Avs look like before re-signing.

Blake and Sakic might take pay cuts. But the NHLPA is going to be out to make sure players don't do it if they can stop it.

The Avs could be in anything from big cap trouble to just a mild squeeze.
 

GirardIsStupid

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me2 said:
I could see Forsberg coming back for nominal fee ($1m-$4m range). Lets face it, the guys milked 10s of millions out of the Avs so he might just do it for cheap as way of saying thanks. The NHLPA won't like it, but that might not stop Forsberg.

Tanguay, Hejduk are still trying to cash in on their good years. I don't see them being so generous. And with them being their age/skill/wage history the NHLPA will be making sure they don't cave in much.

Foote could go either way, since he's older and well off but no where near as rich as Sakic, Blake or Forsberg. I think he'll evaluate what the Avs look like before re-signing.

Blake and Sakic might take pay cuts. But the NHLPA is going to be out to make sure players don't do it if they can stop it.

The Avs could be in anything from big cap trouble to just a mild squeeze.

I agree with your post wholeheartedly. I've been advocating that anything's still possible while others have been saying with virtual certainty (an extreme view) colorado won't be able to retain its core players. however, I also will not advocate, as of now, that colorado will keep its core together. there's great doubt about that and I won't argue against it.
 

Drury_Sakic

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Really..


Come on guys..

Dampy goes if Foppa comes back... thats 2 million....

I don't doubt that Sakic and Blake will be willing to take a mill per season off their current contracts to bring Peter back...

Foote would be willing to take at least 400k off.....

thats 4.4 million freed up right there..

and the Avs UFA and RFA will take less under the current system.. the money is not that hard to find.....

and assuming he signs a 3 season or more deal, the Avs can backend his pay assuming that Blake and Sakic will either retire or command MUCH less than 8 million a seasons...(something like 4.4...4.4...12 over 3 seasons)..and I don't think Peter will come back expecting 10 million a season again.

Foppa has also say he would never play for another NHL team other than the Avs.... and I am going to take him at his word...
 

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Jovanovski = Norris said:
What on the green earth are you talking about?

Sakic = 8.75
Blake = 8.35
Hejduk = 5.70
Tanguay = 4.25
Aebischer = 2.50
Konowalchuk = 2.50
Damphousse = 2.00
Skrastins = 1.88
Gratton = 1.50
Sauer = 1.10
Laperriere = 1.30
Vaananen = 1.00

Those 11 players cost 40.83 million dollars and with the 75% rollback in place, those 11 players cost 30.62 million dollars. I am not sure if those are the exact 11 players but the figure will be very close to 30 million.

How is LaCroix going to fit Foote, Forsberg and a couple of other players into a 40 million dollar salary cap?

Tanguay,Hejduk and Aebischer not signed.
 

LazRNN

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bleedgreen said:
some one show jericholic this so i am no longer considered an alarmist freak. frei wrote an article about everything ive been talking about here for weeks now. nice to get some legit backup :handclap:

I don't think anyone is doubting that there could potentially be trouble ahead for the Avs if, A) there is a low, hard salary cap, and B) the new CBA does not include any salary rollbacks or does not allow for any contract restructuring. But not you, nor Mr. Media Expert Frei the Great himself, has any information indicating that will be the case. And if it is the case, the Avs won't be the only team in trouble, which is likely enough for some kind of provision to be written into the CBA that would allow these teams to adapt to the new financial restricitions.

What we do know is that Forsberg wants to come back, the Avs want him back, and once the new CBA is agreed upon they will do whatever it takes to resign him. Sorry Carnac the Magnificent, if not everyone is taking your predictions about the provisions of a CBA that hasn't been written yet as gospel...
 

bleedgreen

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jericholic19 said:
I agree with your post wholeheartedly. I've been advocating that anything's still possible while others have been saying with virtual certainty (an extreme view) colorado won't be able to retain its core players. however, I also will not advocate, as of now, that colorado will keep its core together. there's great doubt about that and I won't argue against it.
if you wont argue against it, what have we been arguing about? thats all ive ever really said - isnt it? oh, i forgot - youve blocked me. makes sense, since you just agreed with what ive been saying all along. i never said anything was a virtual certainty, only that it looks unlikely they could do it. i cant believe after all the crap this guy has been giving me he says this. :dunno:
i disagree darkboy, jericholic has fought me tooth and nail on even saying the avs had anything at all to worry about. his response the whole time was - youre numbers are wrong, or pl will find a way. i never proclaimed to be a fortune teller, only that the numbers dont add up and the avs have some tough decisions. find any post ive made on this topic that says otherwise - i just wanted to talk about a big problem if things go the way they seem to be. the cba could go in a completely different direction, youre right. when they do we'll find something else to talk about.
 
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Ernie

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I love it.

Avs fans will be falling all over themselves to demand that Lacroix sign Foppa, that they'll be too stupid to realize that the real prizes for the team's future will have to be moved to make it happen.

We'll be seeing Tanguay and Hejduk in Canuck's jerseys before you know it.
 

Ernie

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Hasbro said:
Alot of this is a growth of the alarmist pro-PA doomsaying that the cap would force teams to get rid of their stars. I'm sure Larry Brooks will have him as a Ranger by the end of the week.

Alarmist pro-PA doomsaying?

The stated goal of the salary cap, as pushed by the owners, is to increase the competitive balance. If that doesn't force the Avs, one of the worst offenders, to give up some of their stars, then obviously it isn't working.
 

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Ernie said:
Alarmist pro-PA doomsaying?
Yep, the trope about "there will be no more dynasties under the cap." All the talk of parity.

The stated goal of the salary cap, as pushed by the owners, is to increase the competitive balance. If that doesn't force the Avs, one of the worst offenders, to give up some of their stars, then obviously it isn't working.
I know Brian Burke liked to villify the Avs for his failures, but that's off the mark.
 

GirardIsStupid

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Ernie said:
Alarmist pro-PA doomsaying?

The stated goal of the salary cap, as pushed by the owners, is to increase the competitive balance. If that doesn't force the Avs, one of the worst offenders, to give up some of their stars, then obviously it isn't working.

That's completely unfair and won't easily come to pass. I believe that any championship team should b allowed to keep its core players. I don't want a league like the NFL....however such a scenario is unlikely since the NHL will never share the same amount of money amongst themselves. Ergo...teams with a financial advantage can still do well for a long time if they manage their teams well. I would also like for small market teams to prosper as well...so im not against some revenue sharing...but not like the 60/40 model that's seen in the NFL!

BTW, the NHL's primary objective all along has been to reduce player salaries...competitive balance would be a desired by-product but its not a top priority for the NHL as Bettman/Daly so himself!
 
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