Forsberg does no rule out return to Denver but will a Hard Cap?

[RangerBoy]

Same reason Kariya and Sellane did last year.

Those two players were free agents.Paul Kariya took less money to play for Colorado.Kariya is a multi-millionaire.He also made sure to take less the league average salary so he could become unrestricted again the following summer

Do you think the NHLPA and their agents will allow those players to give up salary without getting something in return?Even if Colorado agrees to defer the money,it will still count against the cap down the road.Robbing Peter to pay Paul

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I'll have no sympathy for Colorado in this case.

I'll have no sympathy for Vancouver in this Bertuzzi case, he belongs to jail.

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

Robbing Peter to pay Paul

Or in this case, robbing Peter to pay Peter.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Or in this case, robbing Peter to pay Peter.

 

[Mess]

Some rollback will be the on the table...I'm sure the players would insist on it

What ??

Are you sure you know what you're talking about here .. ??

Would you be expecting Owner opposition to this issue ??

Can you imagine this .. The lockout will contiue because the players a demanding a rollback that cuts their Salaries or NO DEAL..!!

 

[neelynugs]

and this is the crux of the entire problem...the PA only cares about getting top dollar for each player and driving up prices market-wide.

 

[Hasbro]

Those two players were free agents.Paul Kariya took less money to play for Colorado.Kariya is a multi-millionaire.

So is Forsberg

He also made sure to take less the league average salary so he could become unrestricted again the following summer

He delayed gratification to play with a good franchise. Forsberg could do the same as well.

Do you think the NHLPA and their agents will allow those players to give up salary without getting something in return?Even if Colorado agrees to defer the money,it will still count against the cap down the road.Robbing Peter to pay Paul

I don't imagine the PA is going to have much to say about the issue during the next year. There will be a salary crunch regardless so a player lossing his market value won't be anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

So is Forsberg

He delayed gratification to play with a good franchise. Forsberg could do the same as well.

I don't imagine the PA is going to have much to say about the issue during the next year. There will be a salary crunch regardless so a player lossing his market value won't be anything out of the ordinary.

I know, you were not one who ever argued for an equal lottery for all, but man is this thread ever exhibit 'A' for a heavily weighted against the 'everyone knows who they are' loaded teams lottery at worst. Actually the weighting should be such that the top ten or so most successful franchises the past played season, or seasons, should have no chance at number one or a top pick, none, nada. This thread has been a true joy to read actually.

 

[norrisnick]

I know, you were not one who ever argued for an equal lottery for all, but man is this thread ever exhibit 'A' for a heavily weighted against the 'everyone knows who they are' loaded teams lottery at worst. Actually the weighting should be such that the top ten or so most successful franchises the past played season, or seasons, should have no chance at number one or a top pick, none, nada. This thread has been a true joy to read actually.

Too bad Exhibits B, C, D, etc... can be provided to argue the exact opposite. You need to step back from this issue. It's bound to give you an ulcer.

 

[bleedgreen]

guys, the avs fans arent going to admit there is anything wrong, dont waste your time. this subject has been broached a couple of times to no avail. regardless of how the numbers look, pl will find a way apparently. who believes that these guys are going to take enough paycuts to keep forsberg? its ridiculous. selanne and kariya tried it for one year - kariya only to insure he remained a ufa past the season - teemu was getting a good deal regardless of how much of a cut he took. even if sakic and blake a gave back a million each, and forsberg took a huge paycut to 5 or 6 million...it still wouldnt be enough. kariya and selanne are gone, and forsberg will have to go too to get the avs under 40 million - the numbers have been done in other threads. its not the end of the world - they will still have an awesome team, just without a couple of stars.

 

[Hasbro]

guys, the avs fans arent going to admit there is anything wrong, dont waste your time. this subject has been broached a couple of times to no avail. regardless of how the numbers look, pl will find a way apparently. who believes that these guys are going to take enough paycuts to keep forsberg? its ridiculous. selanne and kariya tried it for one year - kariya only to insure he remained a ufa past the season - teemu was getting a good deal regardless of how much of a cut he took. even if sakic and blake a gave back a million each, and forsberg took a huge paycut to 5 or 6 million...it still wouldnt be enough. kariya and selanne are gone, and forsberg will have to go too to get the avs under 40 million - the numbers have been done in other threads. its not the end of the world - they will still have an awesome team, just without a couple of stars.

Lacroix's done it before with regards to Forsberg.

Alot of this is a growth of the alarmist pro-PA doomsaying that the cap would force teams to get rid of their stars. I'm sure Larry Brooks will have him as a Ranger by the end of the week.

 

[bleedgreen]

Lacroix's done it before with regards to Forsberg.

Alot of this is a growth of the alarmist pro-PA doomsaying that the cap would force teams to get rid of their stars. I'm sure Larry Brooks will have him as a Ranger by the end of the week.

we agree on that 100%. im surprised brooks isnt all over it already. im not pro pa. im not an alarmist. im an avs fan, and i looked at the numbers - it just doesnt look like it can work to me. im not trying to upset avs fans or pick on them - the numbers are right in front of us and their not pretty. something big has to give. im sure forsberg will take less, but to get forsberg at WAY less, and get blake and joe to take substantial pay cuts from a team that just locked them out, and still pay enough other guys to keep a full team out there just seems too much to me. i wish i had your faith - i was raised a whaler fan, its tough for me to be optimistic when its on the wall so clearly.

 

[Coffey77]

we agree on that 100%. im surprised brooks isnt all over it already. im not pro pa. im not an alarmist. im an avs fan, and i looked at the numbers - it just doesnt look like it can work to me. im not trying to upset avs fans or pick on them - the numbers are right in front of us and their not pretty. something big has to give. im sure forsberg will take less, but to get forsberg at WAY less, and get blake and joe to take substantial pay cuts from a team that just locked them out, and still pay enough other guys to keep a full team out there just seems too much to me. i wish i had your faith - i was raised a whaler fan, its tough for me to be optimistic when its on the wall so clearly.

I think some guys MAY take pay cuts but not the way one poster listed it. That's really reaching. Deferred salaries could make it work. Or releasing some deadweight like Gratton.

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

we agree on that 100%. im surprised brooks isnt all over it already. im not pro pa. im not an alarmist. im an avs fan, and i looked at the numbers - it just doesnt look like it can work to me. im not trying to upset avs fans or pick on them - the numbers are right in front of us and their not pretty. something big has to give. im sure forsberg will take less, but to get forsberg at WAY less, and get blake and joe to take substantial pay cuts from a team that just locked them out, and still pay enough other guys to keep a full team out there just seems too much to me. i wish i had your faith - i was raised a whaler fan, its tough for me to be optimistic when its on the wall so clearly.

I agree. The earlier discussion of getting this many players to take such large paycuts in the wake of such an ugly labor dispute seemed very optimistic to me.

 

[Hasbro]

I agree. The earlier discussion of getting this many players to take such large paycuts in the wake of such an ugly labor dispute seemed very optimistic to me.

Of course the Avs have been far from hardliners in the labor dispute. I think it, is less of an issue here than with a team like Chicago.

Considering Baizley represents both Sakic and Forsberg that could help get them on the same page. I think you can pitch it to them as a quality of life issue, "shift your contract around and you can have more fun playing."

And Sakic's and Blake's contract is up after next year? I think a ballon payment for Forsberg can be easily worked out for the following season.

 

[McDonald19]

That is prior to any rollback though, the 24% would take that down to 23mill, which would leave 19.5 million left.

looks like the 24% rollback will not be included in the next CBA as a concession by the NHL to the NHLPA.

 

[LazRNN]

im sure forsberg will take less, but to get forsberg at WAY less, and get blake and joe to take substantial pay cuts from a team that just locked them out....

You say that as if the Avs are the only team that locked out their players... or as if the Avs had a choice in the matter. It's downright silly to think that Sakic or Blake would hold that specifically against the Avalanche organization that had already shown them how much value they had for them by signing them to those contracts in the first place. If the new CBA allowed for it, I don't think Sakic or Blake would have any problem at all restructuring or perhaps even taking pay cuts in order to help free up room to sign Forsberg. Not for the sake of Stan Kroenke, but for the sake of the team and for the chance to keep playing with Forsberg. NFL players do this all the time, it's not that far fetched to think that NHL players would do it.

 

[GirardIsStupid]

Two words.... competative balance.

Here's another concept for ya...if you want to be competitive, you gotta earn it...teams that draft and trade well prosper and should continue to do so for the amount of time they can hold onto their core players.

As far as the central issue is concerned...it's too early to determine what'l happen with the avs roster. I'd like to know if there's going to be a roll back, significant revenue sharing, floating cap, and what the cap figure will be. Plus, the 30 mill figure is somewhat deceiving because it includes the salaries of some minor league players if they play in the NHL and it also included damphousse's option year. As well, you can't forget about sakic/blake restructuring their salaries via deferred payments. you also can't exclude other players from being traded that i know other teams would want (i.e. konowalchuk). Plus, in the new economic climate, star players won't be commanding as much as they did before. What's more, Forsberg has indicated previously he'll only play for the avs or retire.

Moreover, I think many other teams will be having enough problems trying to resign their own free agents before any of them have enough cash to take a stab at forsberg or other avalanche star players.

so, it's certainly possible the avs may lose a couple core players...don't bring out the fat lady just yet (as some are apt to do...bleedgreen, for example, who's on my ignore list). you can't even do a superficial guestimate to determine what the avs roster will look like until a new CBA's done.

 

[Hasbro]

Well let's consider Lacroix's alternative in this case. He needs to at least reenforce the fan base coming off a lockout and with the most competative winter sports dollar in the past decade with the Nuggets resurection (barring a lockout) and the college hockey in the limelight. He's been ridden with spurs since he traded Drury and knows lossing Forsberg would be a million times worse. And the prospect of Forsberg biting us in the ass playing for another team and possibly sticking around in the league longer than Sakic. When faced with that alternative you do everything within reason and even get a little crazy to bring Forsberg back in.

Even the stupidest GM in the league(Milbury?) would have a plan for the contigency of Forsberg coming back to North America.

 

[sunb]

That is prior to any rollback though, the 24% would take that down to 23mill, which would leave 19.5 million left.

If it's legal I'm sure Sakic and/or Blake might kick back more to get under the cap.

What on the green earth are you talking about?

Sakic = 8.75
Blake = 8.35
Hejduk = 5.70
Tanguay = 4.25
Aebischer = 2.50
Konowalchuk = 2.50
Damphousse = 2.00
Skrastins = 1.88
Gratton = 1.50
Sauer = 1.10
Laperriere = 1.30
Vaananen = 1.00

Those 11 players cost 40.83 million dollars and with the 75% rollback in place, those 11 players cost 30.62 million dollars. I am not sure if those are the exact 11 players but the figure will be very close to 30 million.

How is LaCroix going to fit Foote, Forsberg and a couple of other players into a 40 million dollar salary cap?

 

[LazRNN]

Here's the bottom line: The only way Forsberg doesn't come back to the Avs is if the new CBA makes it completely impossible. That would include no contract restructuring or salary rollbacks. Seeing as how no one knows what will be in the new CBA, all the predictions that it will be impossible have about as much credibility as Silvia Browne's.

 

[sunb]

Same reason Kariya and Sellane did last year.

Kariya and Selanne both wanted to win a Stanley Cup. You do realize that Foote and Forsberg have won a combined 4 Stanley Cups right?

Selanne still took 4+ million dollars last year.

Even though Kariya took about 1.25 million last year, he was earning 10+ million dollars per year for the past couple of seasons. Foote can earn a good 4+ million on the open market, why take 0.4 million when he has already won two cups and a third cup isn't even guarenteed.

 

[sunb]

What on the green earth are you talking about?

Sakic = 8.75
Blake = 8.35
Hejduk = 5.70
Tanguay = 4.25
Aebischer = 2.50
Konowalchuk = 2.50
Damphousse = 2.00
Skrastins = 1.88
Gratton = 1.50
Sauer = 1.10
Laperriere = 1.30
Vaananen = 1.00

Those 11 players cost 40.83 million dollars and with the 75% rollback in place, those 11 players cost 30.62 million dollars. I am not sure if those are the exact 11 players but the figure will be very close to 30 million.

How is LaCroix going to fit Foote, Forsberg and a couple of other players into a 40 million dollar salary cap?

If there is anything less than a 24% rollback, the Avs will need to start dropping players.

 

[GirardIsStupid]

What on the green earth are you talking about?

Sakic = 8.75
Blake = 8.35
Hejduk = 5.70
Tanguay = 4.25
Aebischer = 2.50
Konowalchuk = 2.50
Damphousse = 2.00
Skrastins = 1.88
Gratton = 1.50
Sauer = 1.10
Laperriere = 1.30
Vaananen = 1.00

Those 11 players cost 40.83 million dollars and with the 75% rollback in place, those 11 players cost 30.62 million dollars. I am not sure if those are the exact 11 players but the figure will be very close to 30 million.

How is LaCroix going to fit Foote, Forsberg and a couple of other players into a 40 million dollar salary cap?

Those aren't the 11 players that were talked about in the article.

 

[thinkwild]

How is LaCroix going to fit Foote, Forsberg and a couple of other players into a 40 million dollar salary cap?

Well thats whats giving the owners so much support amongst the majority of fans of teams that dont make the final 4 isnt it? So that Colorado wont be able to. Tampa Bay either mind you.

Players, under the old CBA often restructured contracts to play with their team. Detroit did it. Ottawa players, like Alfie, restructured their contract, while the team was in bankrupcty protection with all financial transactions having to be approved by a trustee, in order to sign a trade deadline deal. Roberts and Nieuwendyk sure didnt seem to have their salaries compared to Holik's.

I imagine regardless of the CBA, players will continue to do this as they always have when they wish to. But it would have to frowned upon in the new cBA world wouldnt it. Playing for less money? How can that be fair to competitive balance. Shouldnt the competitive balance police be all over that so that players never take less than they are worth, lest the game suffer?