Former Canucks: Players & Management (Kevin Bieksa retirement watch)
- Thread starter PG Canuck
- Start date
- Status
Easily although marc bergevin seems to be giving him a run for his money.
Downright bad at every aspect of being a general manager. His only saving grace is he was lucky enough that Brackett is a good scout.
Downright bad at every aspect of being a general manager. His only saving grace is he was lucky enough that Brackett is a good scout.
There's this weird thing where people just completely ignore all the massive blunders this regime had made and complete lack of organizational direction and then justify their existence based on a couple very minor trades that worked out a bit better than expected and the fact that we have some good prospects from very high draft picks this regime acquired by accident by being so unintentionally terrible when intending to compete.
These people don't want anything to do with talking about Gudbranson or Eriksson or Kesler/Sbisa/Sutter or the Juolevi and Virtanen picks but absolutely love talking about how
It's like pretending Booth/Ballard/goalie thing didn't happen in the last couple years for Gillis and hyping the job he did in that stretch as a top GM based on Ryan Stanton and Mike Santorelli.
Yeah thats true and a good post its not like every good GM wins every trade or transaction and its not like every below avg GM loses every trade or transaction but if you put all the pluses and negatives to gether you can make a pretty education conclusion. And IMO Benning has blundered FAR more on more important issues then the positives hes made
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
I think he's worse - he's lucky he has Price (as long as he can stay healthy) to make him look better than he is.
Course, that's hardly an endorsement from me (ie., not being the worst NHL GM).
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
By the time the Canucks are in a position to truly be competitive again (2019-2020), Sutter and Gagner will only have one year left on their contracts, and both guys will be gone once guys like Pettersson and Dahlen need to be re-upped. Edler's contract will also be off the books.
The only purpose of signing guys like Sutter, Gagner, Eriksson, etc., was so that the kids for the next generation could develop more naturally and would not be overburdened with responsibility.
I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.
By the time the Canucks and their next core are ready to be competitive again, all or most of these "bad contracts" will either be off the books, or will be fairly easy to move. Furthermore - we will have the money to "re-up" the contracts that need to be re-upped at that time.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
Have a look at the Canucks prospect pool at current. For a GM that supposedly pissed away so many picks, our prospect pool is looking pretty solid. #CallMeAmazed
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
Climate Change deniers = being in denial that Olli Juolevi was an ill-advised pick?..........because, you know, he's 19, and isn't playing like Duncan Keith is?
Look at our prospect pool FFS. Pettersson, Dahlen, Gaudette, Lockwood, Lind, Demko, Dipietro, etc.
Look at the kids on our roster: Horvat, Boeser, Baertschi.
Seriously - does anyone actually think the Canucks would have been competitive at current if it wasn't for these "franchise crippling contracts" in Sbisa, Dorsett, Eriksson, Sutter, Gagner, etc. ? Please.
The Canucks will struggle this year (mainly because of injuries), and will likely be a bubble playoff team next year. The following year is when we'll start to see this team being a playoff team and truly competing (in two years, I think we'll be where we were in 2007/2008........and as was the case back then, that's when we'll truly start our upward trajectory).
All/most of these "bad contracts" will either be off the books, or will only have one year left on the contract..........just as guys like Petterrsson, Dahlen, etc., will need to be re-upped.
Bad contracts don't matter because they don't last forever.
PG Canuck
Registered User
- Mar 29, 2010
- 62,954
- 24,116
Reading Twitter is absolutely amazing. People are so simplistic they don't even scratch the surface of any moves made. Fans truly think Benning is an amazing draft expert. Well guess what folks, when you suck, you usually end up with good players. It gets downplayed how important being bad is because no one really thinks about getting first dibs in the second round.
Getting 2 picks in the top 35 picks should definitely see some results come from it.
Wilch
Unregistered User
- Mar 29, 2010
- 12,224
- 487
RobertKron
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2007
- 15,477
- 8,570
One day, we’ll all be dead so does it really matter what Benning has done?
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
Demko? Boeser? Tryamkin? None of these picks were made with "high" selections. What's truly amazing is that for all the grief that posters on here have thrown at Benning for not selecting Ehlers and Tkachuk, both Boeser and Tryamkin appear to be either as good as those guys or even better (again, time will tell). And yes - I do realise that Tryamkin has left the Canucks, but Tryamkin was still a Benning selection..........and who knows, maybe Tryamkin returns to us at some point.
Again too early to tell, but how come Benning hasn't gotten any love for drafting Petterrsson?.............who is on an absolute tear right now.
Take a look at what Benning has done to our prospect pool:
Brock Boeser
Elias Pettersson
Thatcher Demko
Nikolay Goldobin
Jonathan Dahlen
Kole Lind
Adam Gaudette
Olli Juolevi
Derrick Pouliot
Jonah Gadjovich
William Lockwood
Michael Dipietro.
For a guy that's supposedly "pissed away" so many picks, that's a pretty impressive prospect pool. But hey - it's only because the Canucks have sucked and so anyone with half a brain could build up a fairly decent pool of prospects.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
Bad contracts don't matter because they don't last forever.
When the Canucks are ready to be a competitive playoff team circa 2019/2020, all/most of our bad contracts will either be off the books, or will have 2 years or less remaining. We'll also have tons of cap space to re-up whoever is identified as our next core (i.e. Baertschi, Petterrson, Dahlen, Juolevi, Boeser, Demko, etc.) In the meantime, the presence of these 'bad contracts' is what allows our prospects to be put into roles that they should be in (i.e. Goldobin getting big minutes in Utica when the Canucks are healthy, Virtanen fighting for a bigger role on the main roster as opposed to having the ice-time gifted to him, etc.). That's what the Benning regime has been about since 2014. Playing the kids in roles that will challenge them, but not over-exert them, fill the gaps with free agent signings so that the team has a "lets compete for a playoff spot" mindset right from the get-go, and move the vets once the kids are good enough to replace them (i.e. Higgins/Baertschi).
Amazing how just 1-2 years ago, people on here were whining about how Sutter was "holding back" Horvat, and that Horvat was being held back because he was a "Gillis guy."
Amazing how Horvat developed correctly and is now a bona-fide leader on this team.
Melvin
21/12/05
The natural cyclicity of an nhl team simply has more of an effect than the competence of the gm.
RobertKron
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2007
- 15,477
- 8,570
Helpful reminder: remember to log in. It cleans up threads quite nicely.
Anyways....Kass after a slow start has picked it up. Playing a 4th line, PK role and back on pace for 25-30 points.
Anyways....Kass after a slow start has picked it up. Playing a 4th line, PK role and back on pace for 25-30 points.
rune74
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2008
- 9,228
- 552
Good for him, I really liked him when he was here. Obviously has cleaned himself up after all the crap he was getting into. That's a big thing too, a lot of people that get messed up like he did don't come back from that. I wish he could have done that while here, obviously it didn't happen though. I think the accident in Montreal was his rock bottom point.
Melvin
21/12/05
The nhl rewards incompetence. It is baked into the nature of how the league is structured.
Exactly. Just drafting BPA alone.Demko? Boeser? Tryamkin? None of these picks were made with "high" selections. What's truly amazing is that for all the grief that posters on here have thrown at Benning for not selecting Ehlers and Tkachuk, both Boeser and Tryamkin appear to be either as good as those guys or even better (again, time will tell). And yes - I do realise that Tryamkin has left the Canucks, but Tryamkin was still a Benning selection..........and who knows, maybe Tryamkin returns to us at some point.
Again too early to tell, but how come Benning hasn't gotten any love for drafting Petterrsson?.............who is on an absolute tear right now.
Take a look at what Benning has done to our prospect pool:
Brock Boeser
Elias Pettersson
Thatcher Demko
Nikolay Goldobin
Jonathan Dahlen
Kole Lind
Adam Gaudette
Olli Juolevi
Derrick Pouliot
Jonah Gadjovich
William Lockwood
Michael Dipietro.
For a guy that's supposedly "pissed away" so many picks, that's a pretty impressive prospect pool. But hey - it's only because the Canucks have sucked and so anyone with half a brain could build up a fairly decent pool of prospects.
WHY do a lot of posters insist Benning is a scouting guru? What evidence is there that he had anything to do with drafting since 2006?
His first year here he had the Bruins scouting reports go assist him as well as the Canucks.
Why is he getting credit for drafting? His job isn't drafting, his job is selling seats.
His job should be creating a winning team, not just a bunch of wishes and hopefuls. Why aren't Canucks prospects treated like other prospects?
Could it be that until they actually play in the NHL it is easier to sell that they might play in the NHL and that they might be good?
Anyone could do what Benning has done, anyone at all, my grandma, and get similar results, just read off the next BPA list, bury that player for 3 or 4 years, call him a prospect with huge potential (half these young men are playing kids, 20 vs 16), max out the cap so trades are almost impossible and then sit back (they do nothing the rest of the year) and blame what happens to every team in the league, injuries, for poor results.
What Benning has been absolutely great at is incompetence, but that incompetence will likely result in a deeper pool of POSSIBLE NHL players of a slightly high skill level.
With the shear number of names listed even in just this thread as the "next ones" they will have to play on the team, all of them within a 2 year period if they are truly all that great. What will the team look like then with 8+ rookies on it? What will the "story" then? They have to have more time learn to adapt to the NHL game? And then there is the playoffs, and the 2 or 3 years in the playoffs to learn how to play in the playoffs.
OJ is playing in a league not even up to AHL standards, something close to what used to be Senior hockey here, which was one step below the IHL/AHL, the ECHL may be close. Even the KHL is now around the same as the AHL or slightly higher.
Everyone of those players named could be playing in the NHL on this team, so what, how good is the team then? Who are they playing against? Are those teams any good?
So Benning's job is scouting, a hero in that department, let's say a guru of scouting but can he build a winning team? So far, it's going the wrong way.
I understand the need to have vets and not let them kids drown in losing. Does not develop kids if they are down 3-4 goals heading into the 3rd. No consequence to how they play for most of the game. No issue with that.
What hurts is the giving up of futures to get those vets. Benning can toss around Aquaman's money. No issue. If they want to pay loui $6 million, that is on them.
Was fine getting Sutter. It was the clendenning for forsling move that sucked. Benning had 2 years worth of AHL and NHL play to evaluate clendenning and he blew it. Same with Vey.
Don't like th gudbranson move.
If he did a rangers type move of sending brassard out for MZ to save 5 years that was the way to go. Not the other way of adding 4 years between McCann and 33rd pick for gudbranson.
Need to add vets, but you don't give up younger assets to get them. And you can't blow deals for younger pieces.
Can live with Jensen for Etem and a late pick. Swing and miss. But, don't give up high picks for guys who are at the end of ELC.
Pump n Dump
Registered User
That's a pretty big bucket of mostly unhatched chickens with a notable dearth of high end defensive talent. It's nice to have something to hope for in the prospect pool - (especially for this franchise), but 6 years to become merely competitive (maybe) is not terrific performance.
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
These are good points. On the other hand we've had poor luck regarding the lottery, a Matthews would change perceptions of the "retool"
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
A Matthews during Gilligan's tenure likely would mean he'd be still employed here.
- Status
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
-
-
-
Game 3 Florida Panthers @ Tampa Bay Lightning - Florida Panthers leads series 2-0Wagers: 1Staked: $100.00Event closes- Updated: