Flyers Player Rep (Robert Esche) believes a July 1 deal is likely.

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chiavsfan

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DR said:
another failing of GB. The only way he was able to *win* this CBA was to beat down the players, not fairly negotiate a mutually beneficial agreement, or at least an agreement the players feel they are being treated fairly with.

prepare for another long work stoppage whenever this new CBA expires.

this is the Gary Bettman legacy to the league.

dr


If you say so...I think the next CBA negotiations will be much simpler than this. I think it will be more like the NBA's. If the league is healthier than before, I would imagine that the numbers will be tweaked upwords...if the league is in worse shape...it will fold. So either way, I think this CBA will make the future ones easier.

The players, or I should say their leader, didn't think any kind of deal, besides the last CBA, would be fair. His proposals were garbage, and he was as much a culprit of "not negotiating" as the Owners.
 

R0CKET

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Jul 2, 2004
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DR said:
another failing of GB. The only way he was able to *win* this CBA was to beat down the players, not fairly negotiate a mutually beneficial agreement, or at least an agreement the players feel they are being treated fairly with.

prepare for another long work stoppage whenever this new CBA expires.

this is the Gary Bettman legacy to the league.

dr

The PA made their bed with their initial shafting of the league on the last CBA.

They got to sleep in it on this CBA.

This is what happens when you negotiate from a win-lose position with an iron fist. The first time they had the power and this time they didn't. When they overplayed that hand it led to this reprisal.

Before you make threats remember that this game had Wayne and Mario when those days of increasing audiences afforded the PA their position and those days are gone forever. Before the PA can assert its threats for the next CBA they had better have an increased demand, which as of now I don't see. If they wanted to be partners with the NHL then maybe the game could grow, but with their current attitude that's a non-starter.

If you ask me they should be like the rest of us...just happy they have a job.
 

ti-vite

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Jul 27, 2004
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DR said:
another failing of GB. The only way he was able to *win* this CBA was to beat down the players, not fairly negotiate a mutually beneficial agreement, or at least an agreement the players feel they are being treated fairly with.

prepare for another long work stoppage whenever this new CBA expires.

this is the Gary Bettman legacy to the league.

dr

Given even the slimest of chances, BG would have crushed the owners. Thats what he does.

Kill or be killed. There was never going to be any 'mutual' from either leader.
 

Jester

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Jul 9, 2004
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go kim johnsson said:
Greedy and clueless? Esche is a starting goaltender and doesn't even make close to $1M. He's one of the guys who is going to get screwed.

someone needs to post/find the transcript of him calling into the local reporter talk show down here right after they cancelled the season. he was probably drunk at the time, but he'd be everyones favorite player in the league if they heard what he had to say with his immediate reaction.
 

GKJ

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Feb 27, 2002
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Jester said:
someone needs to post/find the transcript of him calling into the local reporter talk show down here right after they cancelled the season. he was probably drunk at the time, but he'd be everyones favorite player in the league if they heard what he had to say with his immediate reaction.



Oh yes, I forgot all about that. All the Anti-Esche people should have heard the "same" Robert Esche on television be absolutely villefied at Bob Goodenow.
 

AM

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Nov 22, 2004
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Actually....

PeterSidorkiewicz said:
I don't really care if youre pro-owner or not, its really really hard to like Gary Bettman, just by his personality and the way he talks to people. In every Bettman interview I have ever seen, he talks down to every person, and is by far the most condescending commissioner I ever heard. He also sounds like a very, very arrogant man when he speaks. This has NOTHING to do with Bob Goodenow so please don't compare them, I dont like him either, but im talking about the guy whos suppose to LEAD a league. He's not very fan friendly, and I really do think his attitude pisses players and fans off. From the way he presents himself I can definitely see why some players may not like him one bit, especially if they had to be locked inside a room with him.

hes an inteligent man, and he speaks to people like he thinks they are intelligent too.

If he were to do anything else, thats when hed be really be condescending.
 

Pepper

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Aug 30, 2004
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I absolutely hate Bettman but even through my hate it's so clear to see that compared to all PA leaders he has been more rational & reasonable from day 1.

I hope somebody asks Esche what the hell he is doing preparing for next NHL season when he said he won't play even if the cap is $100M back in winter...
 

Timmy

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Feb 2, 2005
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Pepper said:
I absolutely hate Bettman but even through my hate it's so clear to see that compared to all PA leaders he has been more rational & reasonable from day 1.

I hope somebody asks Esche what the hell he is doing preparing for next NHL season when he said he won't play even if the cap is $100M back in winter...

Pro-PAers will tell you that was simply a bargaining position, and that no players who said they'd never play under a cap actually meant it. They were willing to all along, and were negotiating to get the cap as high as possible for the good of the membership.

Of course, the owners said they'd never restart the league with the PA until there was a cap, and it appears that they'll get their cap. So one side moved more than the other side.

The question is, if the players were willing to do this all along, why the **** didn't they start talking two years ago? There'd have been a season, the owners would have accepted a much higher cap in return for a smooth transition to a cap world, there would have been time for teams to get under the larger cap, and the players wouldn't have had to offer any concessions.

BG could have picked up the phone, said we know your league's in a little trouble, let's say we negotiate a cap of 50m and go from there. Negotiations would have been about numbers, the PA would have had a cap higher than what they'll wind up with, and Modano's dogs wouldn't have had the runs from all the stress they've had to endure in the last year.


Stupid, stupid, stupid.
 

Aldous Snow

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Jun 11, 2005
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Timmy said:
Pro-PAers will tell you that was simply a bargaining position, and that no players who said they'd never play under a cap actually meant it. They were willing to all along, and were negotiating to get the cap as high as possible for the good of the membership.

Of course, the owners said they'd never restart the league with the PA until there was a cap, and it appears that they'll get their cap. So one side moved more than the other side.

The question is, if the players were willing to do this all along, why the **** didn't they start talking two years ago? There'd have been a season, the owners would have accepted a much higher cap in return for a smooth transition to a cap world, there would have been time for teams to get under the larger cap, and the players wouldn't have had to offer any concessions.

BG could have picked up the phone, said we know your league's in a little trouble, let's say we negotiate a cap of 50m and go from there. Negotiations would have been about numbers, the PA would have had a cap higher than what they'll wind up with, and Modano's dogs wouldn't have had the runs from all the stress they've had to endure in the last year.


Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Exactly right. How many offers did the NHL make to have independant auditors come in? How long has Bettman been talking about the problems in the economic structure of the game? Goodenow was still denying these problems up until the day the season was cancelled. For the life of me I cant understand what the PA was thinking. It was either the worst case of denial I have ever seen or the most beligerent miscalculation in sports history. Either way they should all lose their jobs.
 
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