Flames Top 20 Prospects: A long time Fans Opinion

[Qubax]

I've been a Flames season ticket holder since 2001, a fan since 1990 (that's right, I got on board at the WRONG time, mostly due to being born in 1980 and just becoming interested in hockey when I was 10), been on HF since 2002, and a prospect-loving poolie for over a decade.

Anyway, the Flames prospect situation is more encouraging then I can ever remember it and so, in light of our success and contributors at the WJC, I thought I would list my Top 20 Flames prospects. (This wasn't even possible in the past!)

I will list my top 20, 5 at a time. I'll post the next 5 in a few days:

1. Sven Baertschi: Elite upside. Needs to remain healthy, but that is hopefully just fear from a paranoid Flames fan. The reality is that, any injury concerns aside, the sky is the limit for Sven. Prime Upside: 35-55-90

2. Mark Jankowski: I realize that #2 seems high for Janko, and it will take at least 5 years to justify this positioning, but I believe that Mark has the ability to develop into everything he was drafted to be; a Joe Nieuwendyk-level Centreman. Probably a little more inclined to playmaking than Joe, but a nice hometown comparison of the kind of offensive first line centre that Jankowski could become. Prime Upside: 35-45-80

3. T.J. Brodie: Very good #2 upside, decent #4 downside. A good chance to be a 40 point dman. I just hope he can do so and remain above average 5-on-5. Reminds me of JM Liles, with hopefully a little better defence. The fact is offensive Dman are NOT plentiful in the Flames organization and Brodie is more of a sure thing than almost any of our prospects as he's reasonably seasoned and proven as far as prospects go. Prime Upside: 10-35-45

4. John Gaudreau: I really like Gaudreau. To the point where I would be open to him being listed as #1. At the very least I can imagine him being swapped with Jankowski, and if you ask me tomorrow, that's what I might say. No matter how much I like him, and no matter how much the modern pro game does not hold little guys back (Eberle,P.Kane, etc.,) he's still super tiny. I mean he's gotten bigger and everything but he was a 140 lbs when he was drafted...and I mean we thought Theo was tiny. Anyway, Gaudreau has big time upside and I think he can rise above most of the other little guys littering the minor leagues (Ryan Shannon, Keith Aucoin, all the little guys in the Kings organization like Kozun, Azevedo, and Weal, and the examples go on and on - most NHL teams have 2-4 of these guys on their AHL teams). I can see Gaudreau eventually being a 60-80 point guy in the NHL, but ultimately he slots in 4th because of the risk these smaller guys carry. Prime Upside: 20-45-65

5. Tyler Wotherspoon: Call me caught up in the WJC if you like, but I am really starting to like this kid. Leading the entire CHL in +/- is no small feat and while he doesn't seem like the sexy pick I think TW is starting to show that he is a legit impact NHL prospect. I believe Wotherspoon has had the misfortune of being drafted by the Flames and being seen as just another D-prospect with a more defensive game in a long line of Joey Leachs, Matt Pelechs, John Ramages etc., before him. In the end he may end up being a cerebral two way defencemen with a similar impact to a Dan Hamhuis-type with a little less edge. A guy that can put up a stat line like this in the NHL (Prime Upside) 82-6-22-28, +15, 26 mins ATOI. Paired with a more offensive Brodie-type, Wotherspoon IMO has #2, #3 NHL Dman upside. Tim Erixon who?

More to come.

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[Flamester]

bartschi is definitely number 1. i don't know about Jankowski at number 2 though, he hasn't impressed me yet. id say Gaudreau is number 2 for sure, Brodie is 3, Jankowski comes at 4, and i got to agree with you on Wotherspoon, what a great pick up by feaster.

 

[When is the Parade]

The Flames prospects are a troubling bunch. Not one single top end player without a big question mark. Would be nice to have that one guy that was pencilled in and could contribute top six. Baertschi's concussion problems should be a very big concern for the Flames. Back-to-back seasons of missing a long stretch because of concussion symptoms is not good. Daniel Tkachuk 2.0? Gaudreau has the size and consistency issues dogging him. Jankowski is all potential. The best prospects I see, and have the best chance to step in, are on the blueline, where the Flames are thin. Brodie, Seiloff, Wotherspoon, Ramage and Breen probably have the best potential to become long term Flames. Wish we had a few more forwards with size, skill and health on their side.

 

[Noori]

I think it's a nice point in the season to reconsider. These were the top 20 guys we voted:

1. Bartschi
2. Brodie
3. Irving
4. Gaudreau
5. Reinhart
6. Jankowski
7. Horak
8. Nemisz
9. Granlund
10. Brossoit
11. Ferland
12. Sieloff
13. Arnold
14. Ramage
15. Byron
16. Aliu
17. Wotherspoon
18. Bouma
19. Howse
20. Ortio

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

My top 5 are as follows:

1) Sven
2) Gaudreau
3) Brodie
4) Jankow
5) Reinhart

Then that's where it really get sticky. Wotherspoon, Seiloff, Granlund, Horak could all be argued to be at 6. I agree with the OP, I've been a Flames fan since 87, this is the best our top 10 has ever looked.

Also DeBlouw, Culkin and Arnold have been having great seasons and have shot up our depth charts.

 

[Qubax]

The Flames prospects are a troubling bunch. Not one single top end player without a big question mark. Would be nice to have that one guy that was pencilled in and could contribute top six. Baertschi's concussion problems should be a very big concern for the Flames. Back-to-back seasons of missing a long stretch because of concussion symptoms is not good. Daniel Tkachuk 2.0? Gaudreau has the size and consistency issues dogging him. Jankowski is all potential. The best prospects I see, and have the best chance to step in, are on the blueline, where the Flames are thin. Brodie, Seiloff, Wotherspoon, Ramage and Breen probably have the best potential to become long term Flames. Wish we had a few more forwards with size, skill and health on their side.

No one's saying we have what the Oilers, Isles, Sens etc., have. But we aren't too many years removed from having nobody. No one is a sure thing and our guys all carry some risks but considering that none of these guys were selected realllllly high, I think Feaster, Weisbrod and Co. have done an admirable job building the Flames prospect depth over the last 2-3 drafts.

 

[Sean Monahan]

Watching TSpoon in this WJC is really opening my eyes. He plays a simple game and moves the puck out quickly and so efficiently.

His skating ability is above average too. We have a very solid minute-eating 2way shutdown dman in the making

 

[Noori]

A lot of guys have had down years and have to be falling off the list. Irving, Nemisz, Brossoit, Granlund, Ferland have all had disappointing season thus far. Guys like Howse and Aliu probably shouldn't even be in the top 20 anymore.

Wotherspoon is most certainly top 10 now with his season in the Dub and performance at the WJC. Jon Gillies has had a phenomenal year for Providence posting some of the best NCAA stats as a freshman. Ryan Culkin has been terrific offensively for the Remparts. Matt Deblouw has had a strong freshman year as well, very impressive for a seventh rounder.

I'd re-rank them as:


1. Bartschi - obvious
2. Brodie - The few games I've seen him play for the Heat he has been an absolute treat. His skating is phenomenal and his ability to move the puck seems even more effortless than before.
3. Gaudreau - Improving on what were already impressive stats. There's a good chance that he wins the Hobey Baker. Slow start at the WJC but seems to be gaining traction.
4. Reinhart - He's been quite unlucky in terms of scoring. Defensive workhorse and an extremely smart player. Big factor in the Heat being number one penalty killing team in the AHL.
5. Horak - Great start but he has cooled off along with the rest of the Heat team. Solid defensively and a nose for the net, he's probably ready for a third line role in the NHL.
6. Jankowski - Jankowski has been okay. His production gets a pass for now because of his team and his inexperience playing at a high level. Next year will give us a much better indication of the kind of player Jankowski is capable of being.
7. Wotherspoon - The guy has shredded his previous offensive totals for the Portland Winterhawks. He beat out some very good defensemen to land a spot on the WJC team and he has been a PK workhorse for them.
8. Bill Arnold - Does all the little things for BC. Two way, no quit centerman, which I feel we lack. I doubt he turns pro next year so we might have to wait a bit for him.
9. Sieloff - A throwback defensemen; he's a devastating hitter. I can't wait for him to become an everyday NHL'er. Will be nice to see after years of Bouwmeester, Butler, etc. Was hoping for a little more offensive upside, but it' still early.
10. Culkin - Great performance thus far. Reminds me of Brodie in that he's offensively gifted, but his speed and intelligence make him effective in his own end as well.
11. Irving - No idea what the plan is for him. He isn't getting starts and that's a concern. That being said, if the season is saved, he's still likely the go-to guy to be Kipper's backup.
12. Gillies - The perfect freshman campaign thus far. Couldn't have asked for more.
13. Granlund - Regressing in HIFK without his brother. He's put up points at the WJC championship, but the Finnish fans haven't been too impressed. We'll have to wait until he comes over to get a better indication of where he's at.
14. Byron - Everything about him is 'meh.' Not skilled enough to play in the top 6, and still too small to be consistent in a checking role.
15. Ortio - He has been the only bright spot on a terrible HIFK team. He has, to an extent, redeemed himself and I hope he gives it one more shot in North America next year (and so do the Flames).
15. Brossoit - His star is falling, fast! He's getting outplayed by his backup in Edmonton. I was hoping he could turn pro next year, but he definitely needs to play an overage season.
16. Ferland - Also a prospect who's falling. Bar fight troubles and conditioning issues led him to being a bottom six guy in the ECHL. He's in the WHL once again but he needs to show up to camp in terrific shape next year to have any sort of a chance.
17. Ramage - You hear almost nothing about this guy. Wouldn't be surprised if he went the way of Joey Leach (as in, the Flames don't sign him). He doesn't seem to have much upside, and that's the reason the Flames cut Leach loose.
18. DeBlouw - Awesome freshman campaign for a seventh rounder. His offensive production is rather surprising considering he's a defensive/faceoff specialist. A unique prospect, and I'm interested to see how he progresses.
19. Bouma - Likely out for the season. Tops out as a fourth liner, but he's a great shot blocker and team guy.
20. Aliu - Not sure how the organization values him. Passionate guy, and could be a fourth line **** disturber. I don't think any of our other prospects/players possess that quality.

HM:
Breen (supposedly he's taken big steps in his game. He's a lot meaner and nastier).
Kulak (he plays on a terrible team and thus his numbers aren't quite as nice and sparkly)

Busts:
Howse
Wahl (Actually doing quite well in the ECHL but the Flames don't seem to want to give him a chance, even on the offensively challenged Heat)
Nemisz (zero points in thirteen games and he is slower than molasses. He doesn't play mean either. Hopefully the Flames don't bother qualifying him. It think it's time to move on). I can see people not agreeing with this one but I just don't see him filling any role period. Not a **** disturber like Aliu, not a shot blocker like Bouma.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

@ Noori, good list, assessments are good. I think Gordon should be in top 20 somewhere. Nemisz and Howse really have been disappointments and you are right, they may not be with the Flames much longer.

I was expecting way more out of Ferland and hopefully he doesn't follow a similar path to Howse. I also see no place for Byron with the Flames. Its to bad that we didn't get a 2nd rounder instead of Byron in this past draft. I never liked the Regehr trade and although I like Butler, that's still a hard one for me.

 

[Noori]

I think you're right on Gordon. He had a wicked hot start, went ice cold in November, and he's started to produce again. His skating needs a lot of work but he's a smart player with a nose for the net.

Byron wasn't a savvy acquisition. I know everyone will say Feaster got a second rounder back, but we could have had two second rounders. That other pick could have been used to select another defensemen (Jake McCabe, the USA captain was selected with our pick). I would have been more than happy with Regehr and Kotalik for Butler.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Does anyone else think that Wotherspoon has similar elements to his game as Giordano? Wotherspoon is very smart, skates well, makes good plays in his own end, and he can chip in on the score sheet with some consistency. Wotherspoon is a little more defensive, and Gio is a little more offensive, but I actually see quite a bit of similarities in the middle. Just curious if anyone else agrees?

 

[Noori]

I see Sieloff as having a more similar game to Giordano than Wotherspoon. Both are highly energetic player who are great hitters. Though I don't see Sieloff having the same offensive upside.

 

[Sean Monahan]

I don't think Wotherspoon will hit the scoresheet like Gio. The way he plays the game he's that "3rd assist" kind of guy. The one thing I REALLY like about TSpoon is his ability to get the puck out of the zone, makes it look effortless using his big frame and his stick.

That itself is VERY important for a Dman and he seems to have the smarts as well, top it off with mobility

 

[Gritty]

16. Ferland - Also a prospect who's falling. Bar fight troubles and conditioning issues led him to being a bottom six guy in the ECHL. He's in the WHL once again but he needs to show up to camp in terrific shape next year to have any sort of a chance.
17. Ramage - You hear almost nothing about this guy. Wouldn't be surprised if he went the way of Joey Leach (as in, the Flames don't sign him). He doesn't seem to have much upside, and that's the reason the Flames cut Leach loose.
18. DeBlouw - Awesome freshman campaign for a seventh rounder. His offensive production is rather surprising considering he's a defensive/faceoff specialist. A unique prospect, and I'm interested to see how he progresses.
19. Bouma - Likely out for the season. Tops out as a fourth liner, but he's a great shot blocker and team guy.
20. Aliu - Not sure how the organization values him. Passionate guy, and could be a fourth line **** disturber. I don't think any of our other prospects/players possess that quality.

HM:
Breen (supposedly he's taken big steps in his game. He's a lot meaner and nastier).
Kulak (he plays on a terrible team and thus his numbers aren't quite as nice and sparkly)

Busts:
Howse
Wahl (Actually doing quite well in the ECHL but the Flames don't seem to want to give him a chance, even on the offensively challenged Heat)
Nemisz (zero points in thirteen games and he is slower than molasses. He doesn't play mean either. Hopefully the Flames don't bother qualifying him. It think it's time to move on). I can see people not agreeing with this one but I just don't see him filling any role period. Not a **** disturber like Aliu, not a shot blocker like Bouma.

Interested why you have guys like Ferland ahead of Bouma? Ferland might have more offensive upside, but he hasn't proven he can even stay up in the AHL?

I agree about Nemo, but I would trade him for a pick... asset management. You might be able to land a 3rd or another reclamation project.

 

[Noori]

Interested why you have guys like Ferland ahead of Bouma? Ferland might have more offensive upside, but he hasn't proven he can even stay up in the AHL?

I agree about Nemo, but I would trade him for a pick... asset management. You might be able to land a 3rd or another reclamation project.

Because of Ferland's relative upside and also the fact that Bouma is likely out for the entire year.

Also, I highly doubt you get anything for Nemisz. If he's worthless to the Flames, he's quite likely worthless to every other team in the NHL. Again, he fills no role whatsoever.

 

[When is the Parade]

If Noori's comments are accurate, and I don't think some of them are, you have to begin to question the Flames player development. Too many players have regressed and fallen off the radar as soon as they turn pro and spend time in the Flames system. I think too much of a onus is placed on winning minor league games rather than trying to develop players. I think we are seeing the results of that strategy in the young players plateauing or regressing.

 

[Sean Monahan]

If Noori's comments are accurate, and I don't think some of them are, you have to begin to question the Flames player development. Too many players have regressed and fallen off the radar as soon as they turn pro and spend time in the Flames system. I think too much of a onus is placed on winning minor league games rather than trying to develop players. I think we are seeing the results of that strategy in the young players plateauing or regressing.

Tell that to Chicago Wolves, at least our young players are being used

 

[Noori]

If Noori's comments are accurate, and I don't think some of them are, you have to begin to question the Flames player development. Too many players have regressed and fallen off the radar as soon as they turn pro and spend time in the Flames system. I think too much of a onus is placed on winning minor league games rather than trying to develop players. I think we are seeing the results of that strategy in the young players plateauing or regressing.

I don't think so. I think it's more of a case of guys like Nemisz and Howse never actually 'having it' in the first place. Guys like Baertschi, Horak, and Brodie are coming through and that's a positive sign.

Winning is absolutely an important part of developing prospects. You can't put guys in to positions that they simply aren't ready for. That said, there is a fine line between developing players through a winning system, and simply icing too many vets:

> I dislike seeing Reinhart on the fourth line. He has the potential to be a scoring center and needs to be developed as such.
> Wahl has been performing extremely well in the ECHL. The Heat haven't been scoring at all lately and I feel he should have received one last kick at the can.
> Ferland actually didn't look out of place in the games I saw him play, he layed some huge hits. He probably deserved more of a shot but there were just too many vets ahead of him.

Between the forwards (Kolanos, Laing, Walter, Street, Ruegsegger, Olson, Sylvester, Bancks), there are too many players that lack any sort of NHL potential. Not that having vets is a bad thing, but a few of those guys we could probably afford to cut loose in favour of prospect development. It's all about maintaining a balance. Having said that, I'm quite sure that because the city of Abbotsford gave the Flames such a great deal, they promised to ice a competitive team.

 

[HockeyTownUSA]

I've been a Flames season ticket holder since 2001, a fan since 1990 (that's right, I got on board at the WRONG time, mostly due to being born in 1980 and just becoming interested in hockey when I was 10), been on HF since 2002, and a prospect-loving poolie for over a decade.

Anyway, the Flames prospect situation is more encouraging then I can ever remember it and so, in light of our success and contributors at the WJC, I thought I would list my Top 20 Flames prospects. (This wasn't even possible in the past!)

I will list my top 20, 5 at a time. I'll post the next 5 in a few days:

1. Sven Baertschi: Elite upside. Needs to remain healthy, but that is hopefully just fear from a paranoid Flames fan. The reality is that, any injury concerns aside, the sky is the limit for Sven. Prime Upside: 35-55-90

2. Mark Jankowski: I realize that #2 seems high for Janko, and it will take at least 5 years to justify this positioning, but I believe that Mark has the ability to develop into everything he was drafted to be; a Joe Nieuwendyk-level Centreman. Probably a little more inclined to playmaking than Joe, but a nice hometown comparison of the kind of offensive first line centre that Jankowski could become. Prime Upside: 35-45-80

3. T.J. Brodie: Very good #2 upside, decent #4 downside. A good chance to be a 40 point dman. I just hope he can do so and remain above average 5-on-5. Reminds me of JM Liles, with hopefully a little better defence. The fact is offensive Dman are NOT plentiful in the Flames organization and Brodie is more of a sure thing than almost any of our prospects as he's reasonably seasoned and proven as far as prospects go. Prime Upside: 10-35-45

4. John Gaudreau: I really like Gaudreau. To the point where I would be open to him being listed as #1. At the very least I can imagine him being swapped with Jankowski, and if you ask me tomorrow, that's what I might say. No matter how much I like him, and no matter how much the modern pro game does not hold little guys back (Eberle,P.Kane, etc.,) he's still super tiny. I mean he's gotten bigger and everything but he was a 140 lbs when he was drafted...and I mean we thought Theo was tiny. Anyway, Gaudreau has big time upside and I think he can rise above most of the other little guys littering the minor leagues (Ryan Shannon, Keith Aucoin, all the little guys in the Kings organization like Kozun, Azevedo, and Weal, and the examples go on and on - most NHL teams have 2-4 of these guys on their AHL teams). I can see Gaudreau eventually being a 60-80 point guy in the NHL, but ultimately he slots in 4th because of the risk these smaller guys carry. Prime Upside: 20-45-65

5. Tyler Wotherspoon: Call me caught up in the WJC if you like, but I am really starting to like this kid. Leading the entire CHL in +/- is no small feat and while he doesn't seem like the sexy pick I think TW is starting to show that he is a legit impact NHL prospect. I believe Wotherspoon has had the misfortune of being drafted by the Flames and being seen as just another D-prospect with a more defensive game in a long line of Joey Leachs, Matt Pelechs, John Ramages etc., before him. In the end he may end up being a cerebral two way defencemen with a similar impact to a Dan Hamhuis-type with a little less edge. A guy that can put up a stat line like this in the NHL (Prime Upside) 82-6-22-28, +15, 26 mins ATOI. Paired with a more offensive Brodie-type, Wotherspoon IMO has #2, #3 NHL Dman upside. Tim Erixon who?

More to come.

Ryan Shannon hasn't played a game in the AHL since early 2009 and now plays in the Swiss League.

 

[Sean Monahan]

Was looking for Johnny pics and saw this, lmao

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Was looking for Johnny pics and saw this, lmao

Wow, he's barley taller than the board!

 

[InfinityIggy]

I think it's a nice point in the season to reconsider. These were the top 20 guys we voted:

1. Bartschi
2. Brodie
3. Irving
4. Gaudreau
5. Reinhart
6. Jankowski
7. Horak
8. Nemisz
9. Granlund
10. Brossoit
11. Ferland
12. Sieloff
13. Arnold
14. Ramage
15. Byron
16. Aliu
17. Wotherspoon
18. Bouma
19. Howse
20. Ortio

I said at the time Wotherspoon was way too low, and I caught a lot of flak for it.

 

[Guido Sarducci]

Great thread Qubax, looking forward to the rest of the list. Nice evaluations Noori.

I'm not willing to say that the Flames Drafting and development has improved until their system is actually putting players onto the Flames. I think that a successful team should be putting through an average of 1 or 2 homegrown players every season.

To say that that the Flames have drafted poorly over the years, but their current group of prospects looks promising isn't worth a hill of beans. Current prospects ALWAYS look promising. It doesn't mean anything until they are on the Flames contributing. Just look at the past.

-The Flames have drafted poorly over the years but things are getting much better. Tkaczuk, Fata, Varlamov and Brochu are dominating the AHL

-The Flames have drafted poorly over the years but things are getting much better. I can't wait for those Russians Medvedev, Taratukin and Zanulin(sp?) to come over. Also, that Kobasew is gonna be a stud.

-The Flames have drafted poorly over the years but things are getting much better. Dustin Boyd looked great at WJC. And we are really deep on defence. Negrin, Aulie, Pelech and Baldwin all have top 4 potential. And Leland Irving will one day replace Kipper! Or Matt Keetley.

Get the point?

Like CGYPUKSUX suggested, the problem is not so much the drafting, but the development aspect is lacking. These were all great promising players WHEN they were drafted. Then something happened.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely writing off this current group. I'm just saying I will believe it when I see it.

 

[Sean Monahan]

I'm not willing to say that the Flames Drafting and development has improved until their system is actually putting players onto the Flames. I think that a successful team should be putting through an average of 1 or 2 homegrown players every season.

To say that that the Flames have drafted poorly over the years, but their current group of prospects looks promising isn't worth a hill of beans. Current prospects ALWAYS look promising. It doesn't mean anything until they are on the Flames contributing. Just look at the past.

-The Flames have drafted poorly over the years but things are getting much better. Tkaczuk, Fata, Varlamov and Brochu are dominating the AHL

-The Flames have drafted poorly over the years but things are getting much better. I can't wait for those Russians Medvedev, Taratukin and Zanulin(sp?) to come over. Also, that Kobasew is gonna be a stud.

-The Flames have drafted poorly over the years but things are getting much better. Dustin Boyd looked great at WJC. And we are really deep on defence. Negrin, Aulie, Pelech and Baldwin all have top 4 potential. And Leland Irving will one day replace Kipper! Or Matt Keetley.

Get the point?

Like CGYPUKSUX suggested, the problem is not so much the drafting, but the development aspect is lacking. These were all great promising players WHEN they were drafted. Then something happened.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely writing off this current group. I'm just saying I will believe it when I see it.

Doesn't take a genius to notice the different direction the Flames' drafting is heading. The Flames have 5 prospects from the last 2 drafts playing in this year's WJC, a tournament where every country sends out its best prospects and competes. While that's not an indicator of prospects' success at the NHL level, it is clear that we are getting some quality prospects which we've never really had before.

To put the cherry on top, you won't find one list out there that doesn't have Sven in the top15 prospects in the world today. The guy is a star in the making(knock on wood)

 

[Guido Sarducci]

The Flames have always had quality prospects. And the difference between being a star, and being a star in the making is HUGE.

5 Flames prospects from the 2001 draft alone played in WJC, a tournament where every country sends out its best prospects and competes. To say that the current group are" quality prospects which we've never really had before" is false.

Edit-I was mistaken, it was 7 2001 Flames draft picks that played in WJC. Kobasew, Taratukhin, Medvedev, Maki, Shastin, Trubachev, Hamalainen