Flames 'New' Arena II - 'No it's yours, I insist'

[Rubi]

I was always been pro city and con CSEC offers however I was somewhat flexible and I could certainly see CSEC's side. However when more details of their offer started to be leaked to the press, I've become more and more disgusted at what the Flames are asking for.... ie. first dibs on all land surrounding the new arena (so they can develop it to become richer), the City of Calgary reimbursing them all provincial taxes, free policing, free transit, parking revenue (even the revenue from the Calgary Stampede)... etc, etc.

Frankly, in my opinion, CSEC is being really, really greedy and they basically want the citizens of Calgary to make them even richer than they already are. I've lost all respect for the Flames organization. They are the definition of greed.

 

[djpatm]

I don't even know if it's greed. Their offer is so outrageous it makes me believe they simply don't want to be here. This was there "lets see if we can squeeze this out of them" offer before putting the team up for sale.

I guess we'll see what happens after the election but I seriously doubt (and hope) any version of city council would come close to agreeing with that disgusting tax money grab.

 

[Bosnian Beast]

Nenshi quite happy to drop $400 mill on a tunnel used by maybe 5% of the population but heaven forbid you put some dough down for a pretty substantial part of this city's identity.

I don't think they should be footing the bill and there's obviously a middle ground to be found but by all accounts this negotiation has be anything but.

If you're going to bitch about the tunnel you should probably be aware that pretty much every mayoral candidate that was worthwhile wanted to build the tunnel. The only one that didn't was Bob Hawkesworth, and if you don't like Nenshi and Nenshi's stand on the arena, you would have hated having Hawkesworth as mayor. Never mind the fact that the tunnel is a sign of the one thing Calgary lacks - foresight for long-term infrastructure.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Fwiw, I actually like the suggestion of free transit to and from the games. It promotes not drinking and driving which is a good thing for everyone. But other aspects are definitely over the top, I still dislike Nenshi but I will not get into that.

 

[Calgareee]

If you're going to bitch about the tunnel you should probably be aware that pretty much every mayoral candidate that was worthwhile wanted to build the tunnel. The only one that didn't was Bob Hawkesworth, and if you don't like Nenshi and Nenshi's stand on the arena, you would have hated having Hawkesworth as mayor. Never mind the fact that the tunnel is a sign of the one thing Calgary lacks - foresight for long-term infrastructure.

There was a lot of discussion about what the tunnel should look like and different plans on where it was going to be located. Different candidates wanted different plans. The one The current Council/Mayor went with is pretty much nonsensical especially considering the price. There were much better options available.

Regarding the arena neither side has done themselves any favours during this negotiation and it certainly shouldn't have become a negotiation in front of the media.

 

[CamPopplestone]

Fwiw, I actually like the suggestion of free transit to and from the games. It promotes not drinking and driving which is a good thing for everyone. But other aspects are definitely over the top, I still dislike Nenshi but I will not get into that.

That would cut into transit revenue way too much tbh.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

That would cut into transit revenue way too much tbh.

I don’t really care about transit revenue lol. And while the city would, it should be a negotiation point the city asks to get some kind of tax back on future business (ie. casino revenue). The benefits of free transit for the city and the Flames is excellent PR.

 

[Fig]

I don’t really care about transit revenue lol. And while the city would, it should be a negotiation point the city asks to get some kind of tax back on future business (ie. casino revenue). The benefits of free transit for the city and the Flames is excellent PR.

The city survives just fine with a free fare zone for downtown. I'm sure they can figure out something for transit during games. Transit is probably what? 15-20k people on game night at $3.00 a person one way? I am not sure how many more people would use transit if it were free vs paid but I'm guessing there's some. Time 42 games and it's... OMG 2 mil to 2.5 mil per season????

 

[CamPopplestone]

I don’t really care about transit revenue lol. And while the city would, it should be a negotiation point the city asks to get some kind of tax back on future business (ie. casino revenue). The benefits of free transit for the city and the Flames is excellent PR.

I use transit as I can't drive. It already barely makes enough money. Losing high volume nights like that is borderline nuts.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I use transit as I can't drive. It already barely makes enough money. Losing high volume nights like that is borderline nuts.

Again, I’m saying they should pull revenue from another means.

 

[Rubi]

I drive to the game and park on the grounds. Would I take transit if it was free? I doubt it. I drive because of the convenience not because transit costs too much. Free transit won't change that. Stupid idea.

 

[Lunatik]

I drive to the game and park on the grounds. Would I take transit if it was free? I doubt it. I drive because of the convenience not because transit costs too much. Free transit won't change that. Stupid idea.

Stupid idea to try and alleviate congestion and reduce drinking and driving? Calling that a stupid idea is absolutely moronic. I'm not saying the city should necessarily eat the cost, but the idea of free ridership to and from games is actually a very good idea.

 

[1989]

I don’t really care about transit revenue lol. And while the city would, it should be a negotiation point the city asks to get some kind of tax back on future business (ie. casino revenue). The benefits of free transit for the city and the Flames is excellent PR.

It's not about PR. Furthermore, the City/Transit would simply tax every citizen more to cover the lost revenue for transit as it isn't exactly a well-funded system. "Not caring" about transit revenues is a pretty lackadaisical stance to take if you're a taxpayer, as you'll be paying for it out of pocket eventually whether you like it or not.

The city survives just fine with a free fare zone for downtown. I'm sure they can figure out something for transit during games. Transit is probably what? 15-20k people on game night at $3.00 a person one way? I am not sure how many more people would use transit if it were free vs paid but I'm guessing there's some. Time 42 games and it's... OMG 2 mil to 2.5 mil per season????

The free fare zone exists as a method to travel between buildings for business people during lunch and meetings, etc. It doesn't enable free travel to and from home out in suburbia, as I'm guessing the Flames are trying to suggest. Not exactly comparable, not to mention the free fare zone benefits dozens, not singular, corporate entities and their employees and clients in the downtown core. And presumably, those corporations pay their property taxes.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Free Transit is a nice idea but we don’t live in gumdrop land. Someone has to pay for it. If the Flames agree to subsidize it in a ticket tax then sure. Otherwise it’ll never happen.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I drive to the game and park on the grounds. Would I take transit if it was free? I doubt it. I drive because of the convenience not because transit costs too much. Free transit won't change that. Stupid idea.

Do you speak for all of the citizens in the city that attend the games? There’s multiple benefits to fans taking the transit to a game, reducing the amount of drinking and driving that occurs in the city should almost be reason enough. You calling that idea stupid, tells me lots. Also for someone that supposedly drives to the games, I’m not sure I’d personally call driving “convienent”. I know a large amount that drive to a LRT station and hop on the train down to avoid congestion.

I’m not saying that the city should 100% pick up the tab on making transit free, I love how people make up their own narratives. I listed a casino for example, in which if the Flames build in the new arena, then the city collects some sort of a tax off of that business to offset the loss revenue from the transit.

 

[Fig]

The free fare zone exists as a method to travel between buildings for business people during lunch and meetings, etc. It doesn't enable free travel to and from home out in suburbia, as I'm guessing the Flames are trying to suggest. Not exactly comparable, not to mention the free fare zone benefits dozens, not singular, corporate entities and their employees and clients in the downtown core. And presumably, those corporations pay their property taxes.

Err, sorry. That was tongue in cheek. I keep forgetting this thread's topic makes it difficult to read sarcasm without emojis. My bad.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Err, sorry. That was tongue in cheek. I keep forgetting this thread's topic makes it difficult to read sarcasm without emojis. My bad.

I honestly read your post as entirely serious as well .

This topic makes it hard to tell sarcasm.

 

[Rangediddy]

Do you speak for all of the citizens in the city that attend the games? There’s multiple benefits to fans taking the transit to a game, reducing the amount of drinking and driving that occurs in the city should almost be reason enough. You calling that idea stupid, tells me lots. Also for someone that supposedly drives to the games, I’m not sure I’d personally call driving “convienent”. I know a large amount that drive to a LRT station and hop on the train down to avoid congestion.

I’m not saying that the city should 100% pick up the tab on making transit free, I love how people make up their own narratives. I listed a casino for example, in which if the Flames build in the new arena, then the city collects some sort of a tax off of that business to offset the loss revenue from the transit.

Extending the free fare zone or making transit free on game days won't materially change the number of drunk drivers. A $3 transit fare is hardly an obstacle for anyone deciding whether to drive or ride to the game. Who's going to go "I'm planning on drinking tonight, but I don't want to spend the $3 for transit so I'll just pay $15 for parking or park and walk 15 blocks to the game"? Anyone who drives to the game, drinks, then drives home is an idiot and has nothing to do with the cost of transit.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

The biggest reason for free transit fares for game days isn't remotely related to drinking and driving.

It is to provide less of an initial investment in parking infrastructure.

 

[djpatm]

Haha surprise surprise, someone who thinks the city should fund the arena also thinks they should give him free transportation to and from the game because clearly money grows on trees in Fish Creek.

Do you pay property taxes? Do you know that Calgary Transit needs money to function? Do you realize there is no such thing as "free"? You realize that if there was free transportation to the game, the city would have to make up that lost revenue by either raising transit prices overall or using tax money to supplement that missing revenue. So once again, you want the taxpayers to foot the bill so you can get your cheap ass to a Flames game.

How about the Flames fund free transit to the game? It's getting their customers to the game after all. It would be awesome PR and reduce drinking and driving and they could charge an extra 3 dollars a ticket and have the ticket count as a transit pass for an hour before and after the game. But of course they won't do that because 3 dollars less they'd be able to charge, right?

 

[Rangediddy]

Haha surprise surprise, someone who thinks the city should fund the arena also thinks they should give him free transportation to and from the game because clearly money grows on trees in Fish Creek.

Do you pay property taxes? Do you know that Calgary Transit needs money to function? Do you realize there is no such thing as "free"? You realize that if there was free transportation to the game, the city would have to make up that lost revenue by either raising transit prices overall or using tax money to supplement that missing revenue. So once again, you want the taxpayers to foot the bill so you can get your cheap ass to a Flames game.

How about the Flames fund free transit to the game? It's getting their customers to the game after all. It would be awesome PR and reduce drinking and driving and they could charge an extra 3 dollars a ticket and have the ticket count as a transit pass for an hour before and after the game. But of course they won't do that because 3 dollars less they'd be able to charge, right?

It's a good idea, but not enforceable. Just print a fake ticket to the game and ride for free.

 

[GuitarGuy]

I don't know why people are talking about wanting free transit during Flames games. It's never going to happen.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I don't know why people are talking about wanting free transit during Flames games. It's never going to happen.

Because Flames ownership asked for the city to provide it in their proposal.

 

[GuitarGuy]

Because Flames ownership asked for the city to provide it in their proposal.

Like I said. It's never going to happen. The city wouldn't do that in a million years. It doesn't benefit them or Calgary Transit at all. No other city does this.

 

[Rubi]

Stupid idea to try and alleviate congestion and reduce drinking and driving? Calling that a stupid idea is absolutely moronic. I'm not saying the city should necessarily eat the cost, but the idea of free ridership to and from games is actually a very good idea.

Not everyone goes to a game and gets wasted. Probably very few in fact.
By the way, how many people who drink at the game, hop in a car when they get off the c-train? Probably most of them. I doubt too many people walk to the bus stop by their house, wait for a bus, get on the bus to the closest c-train stn, and then proceed to the game from there. .... and then do it all over again to go home.

As far as alleviating congestion, its no worse that a concert. Should the city foot the bill for free transit every time there's a concert or any other big event on the grounds? I think not.

Stupid moronic idea.

And seriously, if you can afford Flames tickets you certainly can afford the $3.25 it costs for a transit ticket.