Flames 'New' Arena II - 'No it's yours, I insist'

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
99,857
13,840
Somewhere on Uranus
there is one slight--very slight problem with the plan the flames owners have

the plan being is "build us a new arena or we move to Seattle or Quebec"

there is one slight problem

the arenas in both these cities have hockey agreements with a third party--so the flames owners would need to have a discussion with those guys

The guys who have those contracts? They want want to own NHL teams

just a slight problem to the flames threat
 

Up the Irons

Registered User
Mar 9, 2008
7,681
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Canada
:yo:

"Edmonton is the clear example of this. I mean, clearly, so much of Edmonton's flagging, sad, little ego is tied up in their hockey success that they needed to sign a scam of a deal to give a sweetheart arena over to (Oilers owner) Darryl Katz. And now all of a sudden the expectation is that Calgary is going to fall in line?"
"I'm afraid we're not that pathetic," she said. "We're just not that pathetic, as a city."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-political-panel-flames-nhl-bettman-arena-1.4313740?
Oh come on. Edmonton had some dynamics in play the Calgary simply doesn't.
1. A widespre
ad desire by the public to give downtown much needed bump. It wasn't only for the
Oilers, it was for the Downtown also.

2. Rexall was 40 years old, not 30.

3. Actual land available downtown (that isn't in a flood zone)

Katz is currently building 2 massive high rises in the new Ice District, the taller will be 70 stories. He is investing over 1 billion in Edm's downtown. The city will recover their share of Roger's Place (in increased tax revenue)ahead of schedule.
 

hockeywiz542

Registered User
May 26, 2008
15,909
4,983

The partnership that owns the Calgary Flames proposed a deal for a new arena that would give the private company a chance to transform into the real estate developer for a potentially lucrative new community, according to documents obtained by The Globe and Mail.

Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corp. (CSEC), which owns the Flames and other sports teams, made its first arena offer to the city in a letter and two-page list of terms Feb. 21. The documents provide a glimpse of the club's vision for a complex more extensive than just an arena.

As part of the proposal, the Flames' owners insisted on receiving an option to buy and develop land near the events complex, a slice of the Stampede Casino's revenue, all parking revenue from major events it would manage at the events complex and other goodies. The demands included the city of Calgary covering the cost of flood insurance, reimbursing the club for all provincial property taxes that may be imposed on the facilities, and requiring local ratepayers to pick up the bill for a public gathering place suitable for festivals next to the arena.

The documents underscore how the multimillion-dollar arena negotiations are – for both camps – about far more than a concrete structure in Victoria Park, an underdeveloped zone east of Calgary's downtown.

If Calgary acquiesced to the terms, for example, it would give some of Canada's wealthiest men business opportunities in part thanks to financial support from taxpayers. Further, some of the sticking points would affect the Calgary Stampede's balance sheet. The Stampede, which hosts the city's famous 10-day festival and other events, is a not-for-profit organization and parking and gambling revenue are important to its operation.

"Our proposals in the enclosed term sheet outline the minimum requirements for a robust competitive sports environment and the infrastructure needed to compete on the world stage from an entertainment perspective," Ken King, president of CSEC, said in the letter.


Any deal that is "not consistent" with the Flames' demands would be "a disappointment and would create an untenable environment," Mr. King wrote. The city rejected the deal.
 
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Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
15,602
6,639
I heard they sold 3000 Jagr jerseys lol. Not sure if true but....

Anyway. Also heard Murray is looking to sell the team. Create this huge project that will massively boost the value of the team. Then sell it. I hate him so much :laugh: he is the embodiment of what's wrong with our society.
 

InfinityIggy

Zagidulin's Dad
Jan 30, 2011
36,068
12,852
59.6097709,16.5425901
That would only raise about $25M though.
$25 a year for 4 years. Make that $100m, a portion the city doesn't get to recoup and then allow them to recoup whatever else they invest.

What a great deal.. for the flames.
It looks as though Smith will be elected mayor, and then the Flames ownership will get exactly what they are after. Everything else is pretty moot.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,185
8,337
Padded Room
What a great deal.. for the flames.
It looks as though Smith will be elected mayor, and then the Flames ownership will get exactly what they are after. Everything else is pretty moot.
As you know I believe the city should contribute something without gains. Not as much as the Flames are asking for, but something.
 

InfinityIggy

Zagidulin's Dad
Jan 30, 2011
36,068
12,852
59.6097709,16.5425901
DLltl16U8AAaRer.jpg:large


Not trying to influence the election, definitely not.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,185
8,337
Padded Room
I'm sure they would sell that ad-space to Nenshi.
I have my doubts that Nenshi would ever try to buy that ad space. Don't get me wrong, the Flames are full of shit when they say they aren't trying to influence the election, but it would be worse if they came out and said they were playing politics IMO because at least by denying it people can lie to themselves if they want to.
 

InfinityIggy

Zagidulin's Dad
Jan 30, 2011
36,068
12,852
59.6097709,16.5425901
I have my doubts that Nenshi would ever try to buy that ad space. Don't get me wrong, the Flames are full of **** when they say they aren't trying to influence the election, but it would be worse if they came out and said they were playing politics IMO because at least by denying it people can lie to themselves if they want to.

The issue with this is that because Bill Smith hasn't released his donor list, we can't assume that he even 'paid' for the ad space.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,185
8,337
Padded Room
The issue with this is that because Bill Smith hasn't released his donor list, we can't assume that he even 'paid' for the ad space.
Oh I'm sure they are intelligent enough to cover their tracks and have him pay for it. Even if there are donations from Flames owners larger than the cost of the ads.
 

Rubi

Photographer
Sponsor
Jan 9, 2009
15,674
10,233
Bill Smith says he paid the full rate for the ad. But, since he won't release his donors list until after the election, who's to say that the Flames (or their owners) didn't donate money to Smith's campaign to cover the cost of the ad.

Frankly, I'd be shocked if the CSEC or their owners, were not donors to Smith's campaign.
 

InfinityIggy

Zagidulin's Dad
Jan 30, 2011
36,068
12,852
59.6097709,16.5425901
That's exactly what I mean. Even if he paid for the ad, the initial source of funding for it may well have come from the Flames. We can't know either way because he won't release his donor list. Not releasing it, in my opinion says all that needs to be said about where some of his funding comes from.

And honestly, I wouldn't be as annoyed about it if both parties just admitted 'yeah, we are funding Bill Smith', its their right to do so just like any other group of individuals. It's all this typical cloak and dagger bs from the Flames that is problematic.
 

Calgareee

Registered User
Jun 29, 2015
2,051
413
Nenshi quite happy to drop $400 mill on a tunnel used by maybe 5% of the population but heaven forbid you put some dough down for a pretty substantial part of this city's identity.

I don't think they should be footing the bill and there's obviously a middle ground to be found but by all accounts this negotiation has be anything but.
 

djpatm

Registered User
Feb 2, 2010
2,525
929
Calgary
Nenshi quite happy to drop $400 mill on a tunnel used by maybe 5% of the population but heaven forbid you put some dough down for a pretty substantial part of this city's identity.

I don't think they should be footing the bill and there's obviously a middle ground to be found but by all accounts this negotiation has be anything but.

Gifting them land and giving them a no-interest loan over 35 years without any sort of protection against inflation is a very fair offer from the city. The Flames offer on the other hand is absolute garbage. Sure, the city can budge there's up a bit but the Flames have to completely rethink theirs.

Their demands are totally out to lunch. Their offer is a non-starter and they can rightly go f*** themselves if they don't want to come down from that.

Also if you don't understand spending on Infrastructure vs. gifting private for-profit corporations hundreds of millions of dollars, please don't vote (if you're old enough)
 

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