GDT: Flames in Detroit: 5:30pm MT on SN

FerklundCGY

Registered User
Jul 3, 2017
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Kinda sad to think that Brodie and Hamonic might've single handedly cost us that game. We probably still would've lost considering we just looked out of sorts but minus them, we played pretty well for the most part.

The Wings had 6 5v5 high danger scoring chances and that pair was on for 4 of them. By far the 2 worst Flames players tonight. Absolutely atrocious.
 

FerklundCGY

Registered User
Jul 3, 2017
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From what I gathered, everyone was awful except for a handful of guys.

It's weird. I don't think that's the case.

I think 80% of the roster actually played very well tonight while Brodie, Hamonic, and a couple others played like complete s***.

However, the entire team clearly lost desire after the 6-2 goal
 
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Kanye

Life of Pablo
Feb 25, 2012
5,618
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Chicago
Honestly everyone played like dog shit.

Get your 5v5 high scoring blah blah shit out of here. Terrible game, regroup and go from there.
 

Tofveve

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Mar 10, 2013
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People bagging on Brodie for this one are not watching hockey right

1st goal against, Janko makes a soft play at the offensive blue line, Brodie forces (a very fast) Athanasiou to the outside and blocks the pass and the shot and ges unlucky.

2nd goal, Brodie loses the first battle and then Hamonic loses the battle right after. Hamonic absolutely should have won that battle but he was lazy and not hard on his stick

3rd goal Backlund takes a lazy ass penalty

4th goal Versteeg gets shot and Brodie defends it pretty well but got outskilled by a good player

5th goal another bad Backlund penalty

6th goal Hamonic caught napping by Abdelkader of all people

You can blame one goal on Brodie and even on that one Hamonic made the bigger mistake

I didn't count all the giveaways TJ had but they were almost too many to count. There was the one that almost ended up in our net because he lost it off the end of his stick when trying to pass from behind the net and it was an immediate good scoring chance for them. The PP died on two consecutive rushes of his when we needed to get back into it in the second. I was nervous every time he was on the ice. That's the worst game I've ever seen of him. Oh, and despite what the colour commentator said, flinging your stick around in the direction of the net is not a good thing, which is why he scored on our net. Unlucky yes, but I don't call that responsible smart defensive work either.
 

Tofveve

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Kinda sad to think that Brodie and Hamonic might've single handedly cost us that game. We probably still would've lost considering we just looked out of sorts but minus them, we played pretty well for the most part.

The Wings had 6 5v5 high danger scoring chances and that pair was on for 4 of them. By far the 2 worst Flames players tonight. Absolutely atrocious.

That's what I saw too. They didn't appear to dominate us until about 10 min left in the third when they started clogging up the neutral zone. That discombobulated us it seemed, and then their cycle game looked phenomenal - much better than it had in the first 2.5 periods.
 

Unlimited Chequing

Christian Yellow
Jan 29, 2009
23,612
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Oh well, time to move on. Last time we had a big altercation, we really took off and didn't look back. Here's hoping history repeats itself.

BRxmym1.gif




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Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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I'm pretty steamed about that whole brawl aftermath. Amateur hour reffing. Way I saw it (I was running out the door when they were showing the replays, but I still caught a couple) was that Witkowski instigated a fight with Kulak behind the play. It's classic instigating. It's basically letter-for-letter from the rule. He then dangerously continues the fight after the player is still on the ice. The refs obviously noticed one of those two flagrant infractions, because they kick him out with more than 5 minutes left. And he leaves the ice surface, then comes back after leaving to start another brawl. That's two infractions committed by Witkowski that each warrant a game misconduct (and a 10 game suspension in the case of the last one), and one other infraction which is fairly serious.

So even if Tkachuk did do something (and what he did was below the level of mischief displayed by even the lightest of Witkowski's infractions), there's no way the sum of the Flames' infractions should have outweighed the sum of the Wings' infractions.

I was listening to the game on the radio when Backs got his penalty to make it a 5-on-3, and I was thinking it would be clever if Gulutzan just pulled the goalie and got all his guys to stand aside and let them score in protest. Just be like "no one gets a minus, the goalie doesn't get his stats hurt, and we send a message to the league." Pretty unacceptable.

At least it didn't make a difference in the game. This one the Flames lost fair and square. They need to find a way to stop fast players from making them look bad.
 

SmellOfVictory

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
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I'm pretty steamed about that whole brawl aftermath. Amateur hour reffing. Way I saw it (I was running out the door when they were showing the replays, but I still caught a couple) was that Witkowski instigated a fight with Kulak behind the play. It's classic instigating. It's basically letter-for-letter from the rule. He then dangerously continues the fight after the player is still on the ice. The refs obviously noticed one of those two flagrant infractions, because they kick him out with more than 5 minutes left. And he leaves the ice surface, then comes back after leaving to start another brawl. That's two infractions committed by Witkowski that each warrant a game misconduct (and a 10 game suspension in the case of the last one), and one other infraction which is fairly serious.

So even if Tkachuk did do something (and what he did was below the level of mischief displayed by even the lightest of Witkowski's infractions), there's no way the sum of the Flames' infractions should have outweighed the sum of the Wings' infractions.

I was listening to the game on the radio when Backs got his penalty to make it a 5-on-3, and I was thinking it would be clever if Gulutzan just pulled the goalie and got all his guys to stand aside and let them score in protest. Just be like "no one gets a minus, the goalie doesn't get his stats hurt, and we send a message to the league." Pretty unacceptable.

At least it didn't make a difference in the game. This one the Flames lost fair and square. They need to find a way to stop fast players from making them look bad.
I agree on pulling the goalie, more for the fact that Gillies didn't deserve to face a 5-on-3 including a major penalty in a game that Lack lost and the Flames had no chance of winning. Witkowski had better get the 10 games. Maybe losing out on a hundred grand will make him think twice before he goes completely off the rails next time.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
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As for the Tkachuk spear, you can see it about 1:06-1:10 a little after the tap to the ankle, me makes 2 spearing motions towards who I guess it Witkowski
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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As for the Tkachuk spear, you can see it about 1:06-1:10 a little after the tap to the ankle, me makes 2 spearing motions towards who I guess it Witkowski


What you can see (I slowed it down) is that when he first pushes his arm out, hit stick is parallel to his body. No spearing there. Just a shove with his stick in his hand.

He then does make more of a poking motion, but with his stick angled down towards the shins.

Overall, I'm not too worried about a suspension for Tkachuk. Maybe a fine for starting shenanigans with a guy who had been removed from the ice surface.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
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What you can see (I slowed it down) is that when he first pushes his arm out, hit stick is parallel to his body. No spearing there. Just a shove with his stick in his hand.

He then does make more of a poking motion, but with his stick angled down towards the shins.

Overall, I'm not too worried about a suspension for Tkachuk. Maybe a fine for starting shenanigans with a guy who had been removed from the ice surface.
That might be the case, but you had the luxury of slowing it down, the officials didn't. So maybe he doesn't get suspended, but honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if he got 3 games.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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Just looking at the box score right now. Here's how penalties were meted out on the brawl:

:flames:wingsPenalty
KulakWitkowskiFighting (5)
GilliesHowardUnsportsmanlike (2)
TkachukWitkowskiGame Misconduct (15)
WitkowskiMisconduct (10)
WitkowskiMisconduct (10)
Tkachuk Spearing (5)
HamonicManthaFighting (5)
Hamonic ManthaGame Misconduct (15)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So the Wings got assessed more penalty minutes, and two more misconducts than the Flames, but because they didn't give a major penalty to Witkowski for anything other than the fight, they had to give the Wings a major PP.

Kind of silly. Given they recognized more fault in what the Wings did, it's weird that they didn't find a couple of rules to apply there to make things right. Also weird that, technically, they did everything right and the Wings getting a PP is what the league's rules call for here.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
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That might be the case, but you had the luxury of slowing it down, the officials didn't. So maybe he doesn't get suspended, but honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if he got 3 games.
That's the thing. I'm pretty sure the DoPS uses the video replay as their primary evidence over referee reports. And in this case I obviously am very much hoping so. I can understand the refs going over the top with Tkachuk there to try to clamp things down, and I don't think the league will be able to make a suspension video to justify a suspension.

I'm fairly certain Witkowski will get 10 games. Being provoked isn't an acceptable excuse in the eyes of that rule, as history shows.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
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That's the thing. I'm pretty sure the DoPS uses the video replay as their primary evidence over referee reports. And in this case I obviously am very much hoping so. I can understand the refs going over the top with Tkachuk there to try to clamp things down, and I don't think the league will be able to make a suspension video to justify a suspension.

I'm fairly certain Witkowski will get 10 games. Being provoked isn't an acceptable excuse in the eyes of that rule, as history shows.
They use video replay but will likely have footage from angles we don't have. I'm not saying Tkachuk will get suspended, but I wouldn't be shocked it it was anywhere from nothing, to a fine to 1-3 games.

Agreed on Witkowski, that rule is pretty black and white.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
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Apr 27, 2005
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Bright spots:
Gaudreau
Ferland
Bennett
Jankowski
Jagr

Meh:
Hamilton
Frolik
Tkachuk
Lack
Gillies
Monahan

Bad:
Giordano
Kulak
Brouwer
Lazar

Terrible:
Versteeg
Backlund
Hamonic
Brodie
Stone

The Gaudreau line and Jankowski line both continued their strong play. 3M line needs a change IMO, they just don't have the magic from the first half of last year and have even looked meh defensively.

I'd swap Tkachuk and Bennett.

Tkachuk - Jankowski - Jagr
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik

Gives you a heavy possession trio as a 2nd scoring line and then a speedy checking line with plenty of skill (and sand paper) to be effective in both ends. I think the stark contrast in styles you'd get from Tkachuk / Jagr and the top line would be really tough to defend, just because you have to play them so differently. If you're wanting to use bigger, slower defenders on the heavy line and they get caught out with Johnny on the ice, that's trouble. And the inverse would be true with more mobile defenders getting hemmed in by the best puck protection player of all time.

And on top of that having arguably the 3 fastest forwards on the team as a trio, which would create even more matchup issues.

Regardless of lineups, the Flames really need to get Backlund going. Right now I'd say the Jankowski line is our 2nd line based on performance.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,275
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Essentially Lack is terrible. He is not going to stop anything beyond easy stops. He is not even in Chad Johnson class. The Flames have to play mistake free game to win. They didn't.

This team has "soft" players. They are mentally weak. Once it goes bad, things just fall apart.
 

djpatm

Registered User
Feb 2, 2010
2,525
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Calgary
lol the GDT on the main forum is hilarious.

One blow out and we're now the worst team in the league, even though we're 6-4 in the last 10 and in a playoff spot and we were playing our backup who has played once this season. Every team gets blown out at least once a season.
 

King In The North

Sean Bennett
Jul 9, 2007
11,992
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lol the GDT on the main forum is hilarious.

One blow out and we're now the worst team in the league, even though we're 6-4 in the last 10 and in a playoff spot and we were playing our backup who has played once this season. Every team gets blown out at least once a season.

Probably the Edmonton "we beat an ECHL goalie Cup run is back on boys" Oilers fans.
 
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Kahvi

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lol the GDT on the main forum is hilarious.

One reason for that must be that it was Tkachuk that gave the little tap, it's really driving people crazy. Had anyone else on the Flames done that, it'd be no biggie. It just means that Tkachuk is really good what he's doing, and it's only his second season :partytime:
 
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Tofveve

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
26,837
10,493
The West
Bright spots:
Gaudreau
Ferland
Bennett
Jankowski
Jagr

Meh:
Hamilton
Frolik
Tkachuk
Lack
Gillies
Monahan

Bad:
Giordano
Kulak
Brouwer
Lazar

Terrible:
Versteeg
Backlund
Hamonic
Brodie
Stone

The Gaudreau line and Jankowski line both continued their strong play. 3M line needs a change IMO, they just don't have the magic from the first half of last year and have even looked meh defensively.

I'd swap Tkachuk and Bennett.

Tkachuk - Jankowski - Jagr
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik

Gives you a heavy possession trio as a 2nd scoring line and then a speedy checking line with plenty of skill (and sand paper) to be effective in both ends. I think the stark contrast in styles you'd get from Tkachuk / Jagr and the top line would be really tough to defend, just because you have to play them so differently. If you're wanting to use bigger, slower defenders on the heavy line and they get caught out with Johnny on the ice, that's trouble. And the inverse would be true with more mobile defenders getting hemmed in by the best puck protection player of all time.

And on top of that having arguably the 3 fastest forwards on the team as a trio, which would create even more matchup issues.

Regardless of lineups, the Flames really need to get Backlund going. Right now I'd say the Jankowski line is our 2nd line based on performance.

I don't always put tons of stock in shots on goal, but last night they reflected the play. Johnny had 4 shots (I thought it was quite a bit higher; I'm sure the shot attempts were much higher, as in 10 or more), Jagr with 3 shots, and Dougie Hamilton with 3 shots.
 

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