OT: Fitness and Nutrition Part V

[Kriss E]

Not sure who closed the last thread or why, but a little reason would be appreciated.

Otherwise, continue discussion here.

It seems I have been entering a peak lately. Strength is going up nicely.
I think a big reason for it is the flexibility of my programming.

A week will look like this:
-I do one form of normal barbell squats, and one big accessory squat like box squats or rack squats.
For example, I will do backsquats on day 1, and on day 3 I will do box front squats.
-I do one form of Deadlift, mostly alternating between conventional and romanian.
-I do Power Cleans and Hang Power Cleans once each.
-Flat BB Bench Press once.
-Standing Shoulder Press once.

Those are the main lifts I focus on.
Example:
Day 1 - Power Cleans and Back Squats.
Day 2 - Bench Press.
Day 3 - Hang Power Clean and Deadlifts.
Day 4 - Shoulder Press.

No matter what, I will do those lifts.
I stick to 3 sets mostly varying around 3-5 reps. I will go for the occasional 1RM. I started my program alternating between 3 and 5 reps each week, then decided to do back to back weeks of 3 reps. Sometimes I push for 5. As I said, I decided to be a lot less rigid with the programming and adapt more according to how I feel.

To these lifts, I add a lot of accessory work. Bottom's up KB press, weighted dips, weight pull ups, BW dips, BW pull ups, Incline press, seated shoulder press, Front rack KB press, Rows, box squats, dip belt squats (fantastic exercise), good mornings, calf raises, standing still walk for finishers, dropsets in some type of curl that I change twice per week, same for a tricep exercise, triset of abs 2-3x per week, I also started introducing gymnastic rings exercises.

Basically, I hit each muscle group at least twice per week varying exercises. I change accessory work often and I constantly play with reps. I also stop trying to force a steady line of progression. Some weeks, for whatever reason, weight just feels heavier. When that is the case I go even lower and focus on being more dynamic and explosive in my movements, which also seems to help.

I see a lot of people freak out if they don't hit that 4 set the program asked for, or they look completely gassed but still have an exercise left and they absolutely have to do. Being so rigid is a problem imo.

Click to read more...

 

[Lshap]

I'm no expert, but yeah, built-in flexibility is key to maintaining any health routine. Whether it's exercise or diet, being too rigid sets yourself up for failure, because something will come along to disrupt your regimen. Overall health isn't determined by what you do this week; it's about what you've done over the month (and longer, obviously).

I don't enjoy running, and I've been not enjoying it 4 or 5 times a week for 20 years. For me, the key to keeping it going is giving myself permission to do less. I'm tired, so maybe just two miles... and I'll go slow. But usually once I start moving the muscle memory kicks in -- as well as the competitiveness -- and I'll speed up and do an extra couple of miles. Occasionally I give in to fatigue or time-constraints and do less; when I do, no problem. Pulled a muscle in my back three weeks ago and didn't run at all. Let it heal, then back to normal the last two weeks.

I'm also much older than most of you guys, so being forgiving with my routine is essential, because more and more of these tweaks are bound to happen as I age.

 

[Mrb1p]

I have a guy telling me to give up dairy on the fitness board but all he does is talk about milk... people belive what they want to believe.

 

[justafan22]

What is a good weight for cutting down at 5'11? I'm at 165 right now.

 

[Mrb1p]

What is a good weight for cutting down at 5'11? I'm at 165 right now.

Your already too lightweight. Put some meat on, girls love big bois.

 

[DAChampion]

@DramaticGloveSave ,

Concerning the pro-vegan study that you posted, I'll reply.

1) The abstract says that cancer rates are reduced (good), but not all-cause mortality. What that suggests is that the vegans and vegetarians are just dying differently. All-cause mortality is, in my opinion, the most important variable to look at, and I think that's obvious.

2) One thing which everybody here (as far as I can tell) has acknowledged, is that processed meat is really bad. That means a lot of supermarket bacon, sausages, cold cuts, eating out at Burger King, etc. When you're looking at meat eaters you're including people eating that garbage, and that weighs down the average substantially. Those meats use a lot of preservatives, added nitrates, added sugars, added MSG, and are made from the worst cuts of meat. Studies show that they're bad. So given that I expect meat eaters to perform badly. Don't a lot of schools serve low-fat chocolate skim milk? lol.

Here's a blog post from nephrologist Jason Fung:
Meat Kills! Maybe, possibly.... - Intensive Dietary Management (IDM)
He goes over the data on meat increasing all-cause mortality. It turns out that the statistical signal is nearly entirely from processed meat.

3) A lot of meat eaters consume the worst plant-based products. A Wendy's meal will come in soggy white bread, with mayonnaise, French fries, a large plastic cup of Coca Cola, and maybe an "ice cream" for dessert. That's like one of the most disgusting things that you can eat. This:

has no comparison to this meal:

Which is a point that you've failed to acknowledge for several months now.

4) I've looked at some of the studies and many of the so-called vegetarians and vegans regularly cheat on their diet, which by the way is true of nearly all diet studies. What that means is that they're getting some meat which is probably good enough in terms of B12, retinol, etc.

5) Vegetarianism is culturally distinct from veganism but I'm not sure that it's actually physiologically distinct. If you're eating dairy and eggs you can still get animal protein, B12, retinol, saturated fats, etc etc etc. There should actually not be substantial differences in outcome if the diet was intrinsically better. However, vegetarians end up blocked from a lot of fast-food restaurants, it's also an upper-middle class lifestyle popular among white people which selects for healthier people.

Separately, dairy and eggs can be just as bad for the environment and just as cruel to animals as meat eating. I'm just not clear on what the point is.

 

[DAChampion]

@justafan22

You wrote in the previous thread:
So cutting is just eating a calorific deficit right? So just don't have extra food other than what you planned?

When you cut calories, your body has the following options:
- Catabolize organ/abdominal/visceral fat to provide compensatory energy (best possible outcome);
- Catabolize subcutaneous body fat to provide compensatory energy (neutral outcome);
- Increase appetite and hunger until you start eating happens (bad outcome);
- Catabolize organs, muscle, bone (mostly bad outcome);
- Decrease metabolism (counterproductive), for example by decreasing the amount of energy that goes to the brain;

All of those respect the first law of thermodynamics (calories in = calories out), are observed to happen predominantly in some people, and will typically happen in some combination in all people who cut.

You don't want to eat "extra food", you want to prioritize the foods you do eat to not facilitate processes such as increasing appetite. Sugars/cake/ice cream/Coca Cola are probably the worst thing to eat when cutting as they increase appetite, and they make it harder for your body to catabolize fat tissue.

The conversion of body fat into energy is a process that passes through the liver. That process is reduced drastically when your insulin is high, which occurs after eating sugars. Fiber has recently been measured to drastically decrease the insulin spike from sugars, so given that, blackberries won't stop your body from converting body fat into energy, but orange juice will.

If your body cannot convert body fat into energy, it will still respect the first law of thermodynamics, but it will do so via the other processes, such as decreasing metabolism.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

@DramaticGloveSave ,

Concerning the pro-vegan study that you posted, I'll reply.

1) The abstract says that cancer rates are reduced (good), but not all-cause mortality. What that suggests is that the vegans and vegetarians are just dying differently. All-cause mortality is, in my opinion, the most important variable to look at, and I think that's obvious.

2) One thing which everybody here (as far as I can tell) has acknowledged, is that processed meat is really bad. That means a lot of supermarket bacon, sausages, cold cuts, eating out at Burger King, etc. When you're looking at meat eaters you're including people eating that garbage, and that weighs down the average substantially. Those meats use a lot of preservatives, added nitrates, added sugars, added MSG, and are made from the worst cuts of meat. Studies show that they're bad. So given that I expect meat eaters to perform badly. Don't a lot of schools serve low-fat chocolate skim milk? lol.

Here's a blog post from nephrologist Jason Fung:
Meat Kills! Maybe, possibly.... - Intensive Dietary Management (IDM)
He goes over the data on meat increasing all-cause mortality. It turns out that the statistical signal is nearly entirely from processed meat.

3) A lot of meat eaters consume the worst plant-based products. A Wendy's meal will come in soggy white bread, with mayonnaise, French fries, a large plastic cup of Coca Cola, and maybe an "ice cream" for dessert. That's like one of the most disgusting things that you can eat. This:

has no comparison to this meal:

Which is a point that you've failed to acknowledge for several months now.

4) I've looked at some of the studies and many of the so-called vegetarians and vegans regularly cheat on their diet, which by the way is true of nearly all diet studies. What that means is that they're getting some meat which is probably good enough in terms of B12, retinol, etc.

5) Vegetarianism is culturally distinct from veganism but I'm not sure that it's actually physiologically distinct. If you're eating dairy and eggs you can still get animal protein, B12, retinol, saturated fats, etc etc etc. There should actually not be substantial differences in outcome if the diet was intrinsically better. However, vegetarians end up blocked from a lot of fast-food restaurants, it's also an upper-middle class lifestyle popular among white people which selects for healthier people.

Separately, dairy and eggs can be just as bad for the environment and just as cruel to animals as meat eating. I'm just not clear on what the point is.

Good post, but the study was specifically looking at heart disease and cancer. And vegans aren't just dying differently as they are living 9 years longer than meat eaters on average.

 

[DAChampion]

Good post, but the study was specifically looking at heart disease and cancer. And vegans aren't just dying differently as they are living 9 years longer than meat eaters on average.

That study said that there was no change in all-cause mortality. Let's quote:

With regard to prospective cohort studies, the analysis showed a significant reduced risk of incidence and/or mortality from ischemic heart disease (RR 0.75; 95% CI, 0.68 to 0.82) and incidence of total cancer (RR 0.92; 95% CI 0.87 to 0.98) but not of total cardiovascular and cerebrovascular diseases, all-cause mortality and mortality from cancer.
Vegetarian, vegan diets and multiple health outcomes: A systematic review with meta-analysis of observational studies. - PubMed - NCBI

The language seems clear, vegans and vegetarians die at similar rates, they just die of different causes. There is no statistically significant reduction in, for example, total cardiovascular disease.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Then why do vegans live longer? I think it is saying the study just didn't look at those things

 

[Lebowski]

FINALLY feels like my shoulder is back where it should be. No pain at all doing chest or shoulder related exercises. Feels so good to get back to dumbbell overhead presses, probably my favorite exercise to do and had to lay off it for almost 6 months it seems.

 

[jaffy27]

Then why do vegans live longer? I think it is saying the study just didn't look at those things

My great grandfather lived till 97 and ate meat all the time.....and waffles......lived a good life and was as strong as an ox

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Nice anecdote.

 

[justafan22]

@justafan22

You wrote in the previous thread:
So cutting is just eating a calorific deficit right? So just don't have extra food other than what you planned?

When you cut calories, your body has the following options:
- Catabolize organ/abdominal/visceral fat to provide compensatory energy (best possible outcome);
- Catabolize subcutaneous body fat to provide compensatory energy (neutral outcome);
- Increase appetite and hunger until you start eating happens (bad outcome);
- Catabolize organs, muscle, bone (mostly bad outcome);
- Decrease metabolism (counterproductive), for example by decreasing the amount of energy that goes to the brain;

All of those respect the first law of thermodynamics (calories in = calories out), are observed to happen predominantly in some people, and will typically happen in some combination in all people who cut.

You don't want to eat "extra food", you want to prioritize the foods you do eat to not facilitate processes such as increasing appetite. Sugars/cake/ice cream/Coca Cola are probably the worst thing to eat when cutting as they increase appetite, and they make it harder for your body to catabolize fat tissue.

The conversion of body fat into energy is a process that passes through the liver. That process is reduced drastically when your insulin is high, which occurs after eating sugars. Fiber has recently been measured to drastically decrease the insulin spike from sugars, so given that, blackberries won't stop your body from converting body fat into energy, but orange juice will.

If your body cannot convert body fat into energy, it will still respect the first law of thermodynamics, but it will do so via the other processes, such as decreasing metabolism.

Thank you for this post!

 

[ECWHSWI]

I'm no expert, but yeah, built-in flexibility is key to maintaining any health routine. Whether it's exercise or diet, being too rigid sets yourself up for failure, because something will come along to disrupt your regimen. Overall health isn't determined by what you do this week; it's about what you've done over the month (and longer, obviously).

I don't enjoy running, and I've been not enjoying it 4 or 5 times a week for 20 years. For me, the key to keeping it going is giving myself permission to do less. I'm tired, so maybe just two miles... and I'll go slow. But usually once I start moving the muscle memory kicks in -- as well as the competitiveness -- and I'll speed up and do an extra couple of miles. Occasionally I give in to fatigue or time-constraints and do less; when I do, no problem. Pulled a muscle in my back three weeks ago and didn't run at all. Let it heal, then back to normal the last two weeks.

I'm also much older than most of you guys, so being forgiving with my routine is essential, because more and more of these tweaks are bound to happen as I age.

Don't know why would someone do that, it's not like running couldnt be replaced by something else.

 

[Lshap]

Don't know why would someone do that, it's not like running couldnt be replaced by something else.

Well... I'm exaggerating a bit when I say I don't like it. I do like the feeling and the power of running, and obviously I like the results -- I'm an old guy who can outrun most people 20 years younger and has remained in really good shape. But I push myself. It's never a leisurely trot. I see another runner and I have to catch and pass them, which ultimately leaves me a disgusting, exhausted, sweaty mess. By the final mile I just want the damn thing to end.

 

[Paddyjack]

Then why do vegans live longer?

Show me the study proving that

 

[Paddyjack]

@DramaticGloveSave ,

3) This:

THIS IS PERFECT. This is my kind of meal, or replace the red meat with chicken or fish, the greens with spinach and aragula, or brocolis. Anyone thinking this is wrong is a fool, vegan or not. And I won't live shorter eating this. go away with unfounded claims, tyvm.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

It's pretty simple, the upside of veganism for health is your risk factor for numerous cancers, stroke, diabetes, and heart disease go down. The downside is you have to be more conscience that you're getting everything you need. Pretty good tradeoff IMHO.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Show me the study proving that

Good breakdown of one of the largest studies ever done on the matter (and one of many showing the same results)
Why a vegan diet can make you live longer

The research was undertaken by scientists at Massachusetts General Hospital (in conjunction with Harvard Medical), who monitored health and diet records of more than 130,000 people over the course of thirty years.
They found every three per cent increase in calories from plant protein was found to reduce risk of death by 10 per cent. The figure rises to 12 per cent for risk of dying from heart disease.
By contrast, raising the share of animal protein in one's diet by 10 per cent led to a two per cent higher risk of death from all causes. This increased to an eight per cent higher chance of dying from heart disease.
Substituting eggs for plant protein led to a 19 per cent reduction in death risk and eliminating unprocessed red meat saw a drop of 12 per cent.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

*cue random blogpost by some random guy as contrary evidence*

 

[Bieber fever]

I eat red meat once a week , chicken twice a week , egg twice a week and fish twice a week. So each day I have one meal of animal protein. Since its not so much , I can afford to but only Organic, pasture-raised meat (and grass fed).I’m making all kinds of gainz at the moment ,I honestly feel like I’m cheating.The grocery bill is a little bit CHEAPER than before but its full of quality food.


Lol if you eat factory-farm raised meat multiple time a week.

 

[Kriss E]

Good breakdown of one of the largest studies ever done on the matter (and one of many showing the same results)
Why a vegan diet can make you live longer

The research was undertaken by scientists at Massachusetts General Hospital (in conjunction with Harvard Medical), who monitored health and diet records of more than 130,000 people over the course of thirty years.
They found every three per cent increase in calories from plant protein was found to reduce risk of death by 10 per cent. The figure rises to 12 per cent for risk of dying from heart disease.
By contrast, raising the share of animal protein in one's diet by 10 per cent led to a two per cent higher risk of death from all causes. This increased to an eight per cent higher chance of dying from heart disease.
Substituting eggs for plant protein led to a 19 per cent reduction in death risk and eliminating unprocessed red meat saw a drop of 12 per cent.

From the same article you posted:
''However, caution should be exercised when interpreting the results, as other more complex social and environment factors could affect the results rather than being solely related to diet. For instance, vegans are more likely to be younger than the general population and therefore have much lower mortality rates.''

Wow...great article..
Not to mention, there is zero link for their alleged study and they don't present it well at all as we know Very little about the actual study.
Again, you have no idea what people are eating. Were the subjects eating salami and chorizo vs tofu and broccoli?
A point you repeatedly ignore. It's quite comical actually.

 

[Mrb1p]

THIS IS PERFECT. This is my kind of meal, or replace the red meat with chicken or fish, the greens with spinach and aragula, or brocolis. Anyone thinking this is wrong is a fool, vegan or not. And I won't live shorter eating this. go away with unfounded claims, tyvm.

Red meat is superior to chicken and most type of fishes.

 

[Mrb1p]

From the same article you posted:
''However, caution should be exercised when interpreting the results, as other more complex social and environment factors could affect the results rather than being solely related to diet. For instance, vegans are more likely to be younger than the general population and therefore have much lower mortality rates.''

Wow...great article..
Not to mention, there is zero info or source for their alleged study. So again, you have no idea what people are eating. Were the subjects eating salami and chorizo vs tofu and broccoli?
A point you repeatedly ignore. It's quite comical actually.

Id rather die eating goos chorizo than tofu for 75 years.