OT: Fitness and Nutrition Part V

[Lshap]

That makes sense, and that would make a case for a lighter roast- which also happens to have more caffeine.

As an aside, I also disliked the burnt mud of Starbucks, and have always preferred lighter roasts.

My coffee addiction is real, so I think I'm going to make an attempt to only drink light roasts from now on.

Keep in mind the coffee/cancer link occurred only in animals, given extreme dosages in the form of acrylamide-laced water. Humans metabolize chemicals differently than animals, plus they don't know how the acrylamide interacts with the gazillion other molecules swimming around in coffee. And before you do a preemptive coffee-embargo, the same chemical is found in many carbs, like toast, cookies, cereal, chips, etc. You'll get approx the same amount of acrylamide (parts per billion) in fries as you will in a cup of coffee.

 

[Lshap]

That isn't coffee though.

I used to order Starbucks all the time because of the conveniency of them simply being everywhere next to my work (I cover 8 different locations), until one day I realized I did not like their coffee.
Maybe it's because I am surrounded by nice coffee shops where I live so on the weekends, I always end up grabbing some from there and avoid Starbucks.
I stopped going to Starbucks now and always look for smaller more authentic shops.

You're right, frappucinos aren't coffee. They're yummy desserts. Awesomely delicious desserts.

 

[groovejuice]

From what I gather, the argument for coffee being cancerous is that it has burned material in it due to roasting, and burned carbohydrates / acrylamide (I think burned fats as well) are cancerous. That's a valid point, acrylamide is cancerous (when tested in animal experiments at very large doses), but coffee actually has a number of molecules in it. To argue that coffee is cancerous, one would need to sum over the pros and cons of all the molecules weighted by their quantities. That's very hard to do and thus the argument is not valid.

In practice though, I am sure that the ridiculous people who order 500 calorie mocha unicorn frappuccino or whatever latté from Starbucks are in fact increasing their odds of cancer. Well maybe not, they might be decreasing their odds of cancer, since the plausibly increased odds of heart disease and Alzheimer's means that they might die before getting cancer A difficult calculation

But I'll keep eating 1 or 2 cups of coffee a day, with no sugar added, in the earlier parts of the day, moving forward.

You've nicely identified some of the pervasive flaws with the labeling of some foods as carcinogenic, or at the very least unhealthful. Once coffee is adulterated with significant amounts of LDL fats, refined sugar and artificial flavourings, it's no longer coffee.

It's tantamount to labeling eggs as a dangerous food when one is looking at an omelet constructed from a half dozen eggs generated from a mega-farm where the chickens are fed pellets of dubious origin laced with antibiotics, stuffed with orange pseudo-cheese and sausage of even more dubious origin, and fried in bacon fat from a nitrite laden product created in another mostly unregulated automated plant.

Poor science and agenda driven research are never conducive to unveiling of truth in any area.

Genuine concern for the quality and safety of all foods need to begin with the water, which is universally used in the production and preparation of all foods, and whose purity is very much in question in most settings, including one's own faucets.

 

[Paddyjack]

There are many studies out there looking at detrimental aspects of coffee and they find none, unless you drink more than 6 a day. In fact they find many benefits. So let's stop the nonsense about coffee and cancer here okay?

 

[QuebecPride]

I eat red meat once a week , chicken twice a week , egg twice a week and fish twice a week. So each day I have one meal of animal protein. Since its not so much , I can afford to but only Organic, pasture-raised meat (and grass fed).I’m making all kinds of gainz at the moment ,I honestly feel like I’m cheating.The grocery bill is a little bit CHEAPER than before but its full of quality food.


Lol if you eat factory-farm raised meat multiple time a week.

Have you ever been to a Québec farm before making such a claim? We're not in the states, you know.

 

[Mrb1p]

You've nicely identified some of the pervasive flaws with the labeling of some foods as carcinogenic, or at the very least unhealthful. Once coffee is adulterated with significant amounts of LDL fats, refined sugar and artificial flavourings, it's no longer coffee.

It's tantamount to labeling eggs as a dangerous food when one is looking at an omelet constructed from a half dozen eggs generated from a mega-farm where the chickens are fed pellets of dubious origin laced with antibiotics, stuffed with orange pseudo-cheese and sausage of even more dubious origin, and fried in bacon fat from a nitrite laden product created in another mostly unregulated automated plant.

Poor science and agenda driven research are never conducive to unveiling of truth in any area.

Genuine concern for the quality and safety of all foods need to begin with the water, which is universally used in the production and preparation of all foods, and whose purity is very much in question in most settings, including one's own faucets.

This should be a sticky at the top.

 

[Mrb1p]

That makes sense, and that would make a case for a lighter roast- which also happens to have more caffeine.

As an aside, I also disliked the burnt mud of Starbucks, and have always preferred lighter roasts.

My coffee addiction is real, so I think I'm going to make an attempt to only drink light roasts from now on.

Quick trigger again

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Quick trigger again

What?

 

[Mrb1p]

What?

See how quick you were to dismiss dark roast coffee? All you needed was a maybe and you were convinced. Thats problematic.

 

[Paddyjack]

You've nicely identified some of the pervasive flaws with the labeling of some foods as carcinogenic, or at the very least unhealthful. Once coffee is adulterated with significant amounts of LDL fats, refined sugar and artificial flavourings, it's no longer coffee.

It's tantamount to labeling eggs as a dangerous food when one is looking at an omelet constructed from a half dozen eggs generated from a mega-farm where the chickens are fed pellets of dubious origin laced with antibiotics, stuffed with orange pseudo-cheese and sausage of even more dubious origin, and fried in bacon fat from a nitrite laden product created in another mostly unregulated automated plant.

Poor science and agenda driven research are never conducive to unveiling of truth in any area.

Genuine concern for the quality and safety of all foods need to begin with the water, which is universally used in the production and preparation of all foods, and whose purity is very much in question in most settings, including one's own faucets.

This is true. But the biggest problem is that people looking for arguments will use these despite numerous shortcomings about them. Take for example the meat vs vegan study mentioned a few pages above that showed better longevity, a 100,000 participants bla bla bla. Problems with such a study is that they don't take into account factors such as education, lifestyle, wealth etc. Oh, you would think that 100,000 participants should round up all this in all group but in this case it is not true. Vegans are usually people that take care of themselves, sometimes more educated, maybe more wealthy in general etc. If you really want to compare longevity with such a group, you get people with the same healthy lifestyle, i.e fitness people, that eat quality meat mixed with vegetables in good ratio, not a group of people who's idea of veggies in a meal is the salad and tomato in a Angus burger at McDonald's. Kris or DA are perfectly right to mention repeatedly that meat quality and meal quality have been overlooked in this thread by the vegan side, and why? Because it doesn't fit the story. Same with these studies.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

See how quick you were to dismiss dark roast coffee? All you needed was a maybe and you were convinced. Thats problematic.

Problematic for who?

I prefer lighter roasts, and they have a higher caffeine content.

 

[Andrei79]

This is true. But the biggest problem is that people looking for arguments will use these despite numerous shortcomings about them. Take for example the meat vs vegan study mentioned a few pages above that showed better longevity, a 100,000 participants bla bla bla. Problems with such a study is that they don't take into account factors such as education, lifestyle, wealth etc. Oh, you would think that 100,000 participants should round up all this in all group but in this case it is not true. Vegans are usually people that take care of themselves, sometimes more educated, maybe more wealthy in general etc. If you really want to compare longevity with such a group, you get people with the same healthy lifestyle, i.e fitness people, that eat quality meat mixed with vegetables in good ratio, not a group of people who's idea of veggies in a meal is the salad and tomato in a Angus burger at McDonald's. Kris or DA are perfectly right to mention repeatedly that meat quality and meal quality have been overlooked in this thread by the vegan side, and why? Because it doesn't fit the story. Same with these studies.

Buncha jabronis not reading the studies itt.

I'll save you the trouble: they did take into account lifestyle and many other confounders you're citing, save socioeconomical status (was the data available ?).

Not that it would have mattered because there weren't any differences between groups once lifestyle/quality of diet [which included processed vs unprocessed meat] was accounted for.

 

[Paddyjack]

Buncha jabronis not reading the studies itt.

I'll save you the trouble: they did take into account lifestyle and many other confounders you're citing, save socioeconomical status (was the data available ?).

Not that it would have mattered because there weren't any differences between groups once lifestyle/quality of diet [which included processed vs unprocessed meat] was accounted for.

You realize I was given this study as proof of better longevity for vegans when I asked a few pages ago lol.

 

[Andrei79]

You realize I was given this study as proof of better longevity for vegans when I asked a few pages ago lol.

Yeah, I know .

I no longer coach crossfit though, I am more into managerial duties right now. Have moved away from crossfit as I think they lost their minds. They don't make the slightest bit of sense anymore, they really need to take a step back and refine their game, but they sold out, they are all about the spectacle.

I use hockey as my big cardio days, so if I feel sluggish from weight training, I just take shorter shifts.

On monday I will usually add a heavy+high intensity second workout a few hours after my weight training. One I really like is Bodyweight farmer's walk for 50 steps + 10 calories sprint on Assault Bike, for 10 rounds. The rest of the week is just strength training and hockey.
You will feel banged up the first week or so, after that you should adapt.

Anything that can improve recovery, supplements, yoga, massages, goes a long way.

Nice. I like the idea of a GPP style workout on Monday, it must help for recovery/cardio long term.

I'm back from a little less than a 2 year layoff. Im doing hockey/skating/stick-puck 4-5 times/week.

Weightlifting is fairly simple until I get my strength back to a respectable level, its basically Squat+bench, Deadlift+front squats, Bench+accessory work.

Eventually, Ill add some one leg mouvements, targeted exercises and speed, but for the next few months, I just want to stay injury free.

Will add some recovery, I like that idea.

 

[Kriss E]

Nice. I like the idea of a GPP style workout on Monday, it must help for recovery/cardio long term.

I'm back from a little less than a 2 year layoff. Im doing hockey/skating/stick-puck 4-5 times/week.

Weightlifting is fairly simple until I get my strength back to a respectable level, its basically Squat+bench, Deadlift+front squats, Bench+accessory work.

Eventually, Ill add some one leg mouvements, targeted exercises and speed, but for the next few months, I just want to stay injury free.

Will add some recovery, I like that idea.

Well you'll have to make sure to eat more if you are playing 4-5x/w and add some serious weightlifting to it, but I'm sure you knew that.
I would also advise you to switch one of your bench sessions to a shoulder press one, unless you specifically wanted to work more on your chest.

Recovery is key, especially as we get older.

 

[Fazkovsky]

What advice would you have for someone that has low back pain ? I went to the physio in the past and do daily stretches I should go back I guess . I went like 6-7 times to the point I think she told me no new stretches I can show you .it involves some planks and some other stretches. I started using some heat

But no problem with X-rays or mri it’s just basic low back pain due to a mistake

Massages should help too I guess I just don’t want to invest but I always been a health first guy . Strange situation. Have to start spending $ to get rid of it One day but I read it can take years to heal . Trying to improve posture too

 

[Kriss E]

What advice would you have for someone that has low back pain ? I went to the physio in the past and do daily stretches I should go back I guess . I went like 6-7 times to the point I think she told me no new stretches I can show you .it involves some planks and some other stretches. I started using some heat

But no problem with X-rays or mri it’s just basic low back pain due to a mistake

Massages should help too I guess I just don’t want to invest but I always been a health first guy . Strange situation. Have to start spending $ to get rid of it One day but I read it can take years to heal . Trying to improve posture too

You are probably not doing things right.
Nothing is going to improve your back if you keep messing it up. If X-rays and MRI have shown nothing, stretches don't do anything, then there is a problem somewhere you are not looking.

 

[Paddyjack]

What advice would you have for someone that has low back pain ? I went to the physio in the past and do daily stretches I should go back I guess . I went like 6-7 times to the point I think she told me no new stretches I can show you .it involves some planks and some other stretches. I started using some heat

But no problem with X-rays or mri it’s just basic low back pain due to a mistake

Massages should help too I guess I just don’t want to invest but I always been a health first guy . Strange situation. Have to start spending $ to get rid of it One day but I read it can take years to heal . Trying to improve posture too

Kriss knows more than me about this I'm sure so I won't presume, however one thing about low back pain is that sometimes the pain may be in the back but the problem is in the glutes. There are a few stretches to help with that, look them up on youtube. I think Cavaliere covered this once. Hope it helps

 

[Kriss E]

Kriss knows more than me about this I'm sure so I won't presume, however one thing about low back pain is that sometimes the pain may be in the back but the problem is in the glutes. There are a few stretches to help with that, look them up on youtube. I think Cavaliere covered this once. Hope it helps

Absolutely, often times it can be tightness along the posterior chain that is the originating cause. So you can massage or stretch the back, tighten up the core, and put some heat all you want, unless you address the actual cause, that back pain won't go anywhere.
But he said he went to the physio so I assumed they told him that there and checked him out.

Cavaliere has some good content, it's too bad, because I can't take anybody seriously who is topless all the time.

 

[Paddyjack]

Cavaliere has some good content, it's too bad, because I can't take anybody seriously who is topless all the time.

Lol I know, you told me that before. Interesting what he did with his helper Jesse however, started from a real skinny guy and made him look great in one year or so, something like 12-16 pounds.

 

[Goodbahd]

Vegans are usually people that take care of themselves, sometimes more educated, maybe more wealthy in general etc. If you really want to compare longevity with such a group, you get people with the same healthy lifestyle, i.e fitness

Wealth/education doesn’t make people healthier. People have can have the same lifestyles, but one will always be healthier simply due to genetics.

Regardless, you don’t discredit people from a study because they’re “smarter”. You just admitted vegans are generally smarter, more educated and wealthier. So obviously the diet they choose is based on intelligence, which proves that plant based diets are good for oneself.

The Statistics of Vegetarians Vs. Meat-Eaters

The facts speak for themselves, and I quote from the article “Vegetarian men live an average of 9.5 years longer than their meat-eating counterparts and vegetarian women an average of 6.1 years longer”.

Those are significant differences in life expectancy. If you’re going to contradict the latter, medical research, majority of doctors’ opinions, then I suppose that would make you both unintelligent and suicidal, which probably isn’t a bad thing though in terms of Darwinian purposes.

 

[Mrb1p]

Wealth/education doesn’t make people healthier. People have can have the same lifestyles, but one will always be healthier simply due to genetics.

Regardless, you don’t discredit people from a study because they’re “smarter”. You just admitted vegans are generally smarter, more educated and wealthier. So obviously the diet they choose is based on intelligence, which proves that plant based diets are good for oneself.

The Statistics of Vegetarians Vs. Meat-Eaters

The facts speak for themselves, and I quote from the article “Vegetarian men live an average of 9.5 years longer than their meat-eating counterparts and vegetarian women an average of 6.1 years longer”.

Those are significant differences in life expectancy. If you’re going to contradict the latter, medical research, majority of doctors’ opinions, then I suppose that would make you both unintelligent and suicidal, which probably isn’t a bad thing though in terms of Darwinian purposes.

Sweet baby lord

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

It's funny to me how this dialogue has gone from vegans are unhealthy to vegans only live longer because they are wealthier/more educated lol

Talk about moving the goalposts...

 

[DAChampion]

It's funny to me how this dialogue has gone from vegans are unhealthy to vegans only live longer because they are wealthier/more educated lol

Talk about moving the goalposts...

The goalposts have been the same for years as this is long recognized. It's even mentioned in that study that you quoted, as pointed out by @Andrei79 . The original document references the issue.

Separately, it's also known that many people following the paleo diet are healthier. That doesn't mean that the paleo diet is perfect, but it is usually done by upper-middle class white people, and it removes a few awful foods.
Metabolic and physiologic improvements from consuming a paleolithic, hunter-gatherer type diet

The populations of Okinawa, Iceland, and Pioppi all consume animal products, and are known internationally for living exceptionally healthy lives, living to older ages, etc. Historically, it was alleged that the people of Okinawa were vegans/vegetarians, but that turned out to be fake news. They have historically consumed substantial quantities of pork fat, lamb, and sea life.

I suspect that you understand all of this and you're just holding on because you like to believe.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

The goalposts have been the same for years as this is long recognized. It's even mentioned in that study that you quoted, as pointed out by @Andrei79 . The original document references the issue.

Separately, it's also known that people following the paleo diet are on average healthier. That doesn't mean that the paleo diet is perfect, but it is usually done by upper-middle class white people, and it removes a few awful foods.

The populations of Okinawa, Iceland, and Pioppi all consume animal products, and are known internationally for living exceptionally healthy lives, living to older ages, etc. Historically, it was alleged that the people of Okinawa were vegans/vegetarians, but that turned out to be fake news. They have historically consumed substantial quantities of pork fat, lamb, and sea life.

I suspect that you understand all of this and you're just holding on because you like to believe.

Do you have any evidence that vegans live longer because of other lifestyle choices, or are you just making that assumption because it fits your narrative?