OT: Fitness and Nutrition Part IV - Let's get jacked up Edition

[DAChampion]

I went to my GP to discuss my frequent colds and he said that it's most likely a fluke. The number and type of viruses floating around in any given a year varies, and we all were exposed to different types of viruses as kids.

I got a scare last week. The urgent care clinic that saw me said that my symptoms might be due to an STD. So they tested me and it took a few days -- came back negative. Thankfully. The GP told me that the symptoms in addition to the upper respiratory infection may have simply been over hydration during the illness.

 

[Kriss E]

I went to my GP to discuss my frequent colds and he said that it's most likely a fluke. The number and type of viruses floating around in any given a year varies, and we all were exposed to different types of viruses as kids.

I got a scare last week. The urgent care clinic that saw me said that my symptoms might be due to an STD. So they tested me and it took a few days -- came back negative. Thankfully. The GP told me that the symptoms in addition to the upper respiratory infection may have simply been over hydration during the illness.

Could be due to your crazy idea of fasting haha joking, as I don't know if you still do that. Traveling a lot for work is a great way to get sick too.

 

[Kriss E]

This shouldn't be much of a surprise but 50% of vegans develop a B12 defficiency.
Serum concentrations of vitamin B12 and folate in British male omnivores, vegetarians, and vegans: results from a cross-sectional analysis of the EPIC-Oxford cohort study

This study was also mentioned in this interesting article.
A Comprehensive Pegan Diet Guide and 7-Day Meal Plan

I'm not really a paleo guy and I laugh at the part where the author says Paleo isn't restrictive, but I can see the argument that Paleo+Vegan can be a very optimal nutrition.

 

[Mrb1p]

This shouldn't be much of a surprise but 50% of vegans develop a B12 defficiency.
Serum concentrations of vitamin B12 and folate in British male omnivores, vegetarians, and vegans: results from a cross-sectional analysis of the EPIC-Oxford cohort study

This study was also mentioned in this interesting article.
A Comprehensive Pegan Diet Guide and 7-Day Meal Plan

I'm not really a paleo guy and I laugh at the part where the author says Paleo isn't restrictive, but I can see the argument that Paleo+Vegan can be a very optimal nutrition.

Why didnt they name it Vageo instead of Pegan

 

[DAChampion]

This shouldn't be much of a surprise but 50% of vegans develop a B12 defficiency.
Serum concentrations of vitamin B12 and folate in British male omnivores, vegetarians, and vegans: results from a cross-sectional analysis of the EPIC-Oxford cohort study

This study was also mentioned in this interesting article.
A Comprehensive Pegan Diet Guide and 7-Day Meal Plan

I'm not really a paleo guy and I laugh at the part where the author says Paleo isn't restrictive, but I can see the argument that Paleo+Vegan can be a very optimal nutrition.

The B12 deficiency is by itself not a great argument, as it can in principle be solved by supplememtatuon, assuming that proper dosing and purity protocols are established. Sometimes supplements use synthetic versions of vitamins and that can actually worsen problems .

I know this vegan woman who thought that she was gluten intolerant. It turned out that her body was allergic to cyanobalamin, a synthetic B12 that is both sold as supplemental B12 to vegans, and added to wheat products as a fortifier in the USA .

B12 deficiency is a purely technological problem on its own. In practice though, it appears that vegans have multiple deficiencies. At that point supplements are no longer a viable option. They'd be better off eating one or two servings of meat a week.

 

[DAChampion]

Cute study shows coconut oil outperforming butter and olive oil in improving cholesterol markers after 4 weeks:
Is coconut oil a superfood?

That is in contrast to recent advice from cardiologists, who dismissed coconut oil as dangerous on the basis that the main fat is saturated fat. I'm amused, and I remember dismissing that advice. I'm pleased with myself. The argument that they're now using in the article is exactly what I was saying a month ago. ][/cocky bragging]

This study was over 4 weeks, involved 450 calories a day of the respective oils (!!!), and yielded changes of 0-15% in cholesterol markers.

 

[Lshap]

Good on him. Really too bad so many vegans have to be such annoying *****. Furthermore, so many of them have become vegans just because they watched a movie. It's so stupid.

'That movie' has been shoved down my throat by so many people I'm tempted to take up hunting, just to piss them off. Yes, the principle is fine: Eat more plant-based foods. But the hysterics against everything non-vegan is so over the top and biased it pollutes an otherwise good message of eating healthier.

 

[Mrb1p]

'That movie' has been shoved down my throat by so many people I'm tempted to take up hunting, just to piss them off. Yes, the principle is fine: Eat more plant-based foods. But the hysterics against everything non-vegan is so over the top and biased it pollutes an otherwise good message of eating healthier.

The sugar movie is a perfect counter to What the health and much less biased.

 

[Kriss E]

'That movie' has been shoved down my throat by so many people I'm tempted to take up hunting, just to piss them off. Yes, the principle is fine: Eat more plant-based foods. But the hysterics against everything non-vegan is so over the top and biased it pollutes an otherwise good message of eating healthier.

Google ''what the health debunk'' and you can shove that down their throat too.
I agree, it's too bad as there is merit to recommend a more plant based diet.

 

[Kriss E]

The B12 deficiency is by itself not a great argument, as it can in principle be solved by supplememtatuon, assuming that proper dosing and purity protocols are established. Sometimes supplements use synthetic versions of vitamins and that can actually worsen problems .

I know this vegan woman who thought that she was gluten intolerant. It turned out that her body was allergic to cyanobalamin, a synthetic B12 that is both sold as supplemental B12 to vegans, and added to wheat products as a fortifier in the USA .

B12 deficiency is a purely technological problem on its own. In practice though, it appears that vegans have multiple deficiencies. At that point supplements are no longer a viable option. They'd be better off eating one or two servings of meat a week.

Sure, but you can say that for everything.
I agree with you though.

 

[MasterD]

When asked what he'd suggest diet-wise to a vegan trainee, Mark Rippetoe's answer was "I don't deal with eating disorders". 100% agree with him on this stance.

 

[MasterD]

I went to my GP to discuss my frequent colds and he said that it's most likely a fluke. The number and type of viruses floating around in any given a year varies, and we all were exposed to different types of viruses as kids.

I got a scare last week. The urgent care clinic that saw me said that my symptoms might be due to an STD. So they tested me and it took a few days -- came back negative. Thankfully. The GP told me that the symptoms in addition to the upper respiratory infection may have simply been over hydration during the illness.

Good thing the STDs were negative, but you know as well as I do that your (and my, and most) GP are terrible at anything prevention-related. If I were you I'd get in contact with a functional medecine practicionner to discuss your lifestyle and eating habits and see how you can improve your immune system. Facing multiple viruses is a thing that can happen, but you shouldn't get ill from every single one of them.

 

[Andrei79]

Cute study shows coconut oil outperforming butter and olive oil in improving cholesterol markers after 4 weeks:
Is coconut oil a superfood?

That is in contrast to recent advice from cardiologists, who dismissed coconut oil as dangerous on the basis that the main fat is saturated fat. I'm amused, and I remember dismissing that advice. I'm pleased with myself. The argument that they're now using in the article is exactly what I was saying a month ago. ][/cocky bragging]

This study was over 4 weeks, involved 450 calories a day of the respective oils (!!!), and yielded changes of 0-15% in cholesterol markers.

First time I heard of Coconut oil branded as "good" saturated fast was around 7 years ago. I've only seen evidence to support it too since...

It's crazy how long set ideas can take to change. We did a study on how long it took to implement change in a hospital culture and the average time was 10 years.

 

[justafan22]

So cutting is just eating a calorific deficit right? So just don't have extra food other than what you planned?

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Google ''what the health debunk'' and you can shove that down their throat too.
I agree, it's too bad as there is merit to recommend a more plant based diet.

What The Health wasn't "debunked". lol. Climate change has been debunked too, ya? Google "climate change debunked" and I'm sure lots will come up.

There were a few sensationalist claims made over the course of a 90 minute film. But the overall sentiment is dead on.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Brand new massive meta-analysis on the positive health effects of vegan and vegetarian diets: Vegetarian, vegan diets and multiple health outcomes: A systematic review with meta-analysis of observational studies. - PubMed - NCBI

CONCLUSION:
This comprehensive meta-analysis reports a significant protective effect of a vegetarian diet versus the incidence and/or mortality from ischemic heart disease (-25%) and incidence from total cancer (-8%). Vegan diet conferred a significant reduced risk (-15%) of incidence from total cancer.

BOTTOM LINE:
A Vegan diet will significantly reduce your risk factor for both ischemic heart disease and cancer- the 2 biggest killers in North America.

BOOM

*cue something something bias bias something something*

 

[Kriss E]

What The Health wasn't "debunked". lol. Climate change has been debunked too, ya? Google "climate change debunked" and I'm sure lots will come up.

There were a few sensationalist claims made over the course of a 90 minute film. But the overall sentiment is dead on.

I mean...are you seriously trying to equate climate change to veganism? Is that truly what you are doing here? There is no other way to say this but it's just a stupid argument.

Yes, a lot of the claims in that movie were debunked, and that movie was not objective in the least.
It was completely sensationalist and biased.

It's too bad because factory farming is indeed bad, overeating meat is probably not great either, as is overeating anything. Most people do not eat enough veggies, also true. Had he focused on this instead of making this sensationalist movie, it would have been much better.
Instead they present one side of the medal, do not bring up counter points and pick studies that back up their already agenda, make ridiculous claims like eggs = cigarettes, etc..

College of health and human science of Colorado wrote a very short debunk here.
Debunking the documentary 'What the Health' - College of Health and Human Sciences

There is no overwhelming evidence that meat and animal protein is this alleged poison to us that causes obeisity, cancer, heart diseases, diabetes, etc. There just isn't. To sit there and pretend like this is on par with Climate Change is just comical. I mean really...lol.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I mean...are you seriously trying to equate climate change to veganism? Is that truly what you are doing here? There is no other way to say this but it's just a stupid argument.

Yes, a lot of the claims in that movie were debunked, and that movie was not objective in the least.
It was completely sensationalist and biased.

It's too bad because factory farming is indeed bad, overeating meat is probably not great either, as is overeating anything. Most people do not eat enough veggies, also true. Had he focused on this instead of making this sensationalist movie, it would have been much better.
Instead they present one side of the medal, do not bring up counter points and pick studies that back up their already agenda, make ridiculous claims like eggs = cigarettes, etc..

College of health and human science of Colorado wrote a very short debunk here.
Debunking the documentary 'What the Health' - College of Health and Human Sciences

There is no overwhelming evidence that meat and animal protein is this alleged poison to us that causes obeisity, cancer, heart diseases, diabetes, etc. There just isn't. To sit there and pretend like this is on par with Climate Change is just comical. I mean really...lol.

Do you know what the word "equate" means? Because I didn't do that...

As well, yes, the scientific consensus is that animal products lead to an increased risk of heart, disease, stroke, and numerous cancers... so...

 

[Kriss E]

Do you know what the word "equate" means? Because I didn't do that...

As well, yes, the scientific consensus is that animal products lead to an increased risk of heart, disease, stroke, and numerous cancers... so...

Sure man.

 

[Kriss E]

But you had no issue with him saying that Vegans had eating disorders, imagine that...

I already adressed that when I brought up Poliquin. I don't agree with their takes.
Rip prescribes GOMAD, so, I would take what he says about nutrition with a grain of salt, to put it nicely.

But there is a reason why some of those guys make fun of vegans, and no, they are all not bought out by the government.

 

[MasterD]

I already adressed that when I brought up Poliquin. I don't agree with their takes.
Rip prescribes GOMAD, so, I would take what he says about nutrition with a grain of salt, to put it nicely.

But there is a reason why some of those guys make fun of vegans, and no, they are all not bought out by the government.

I'm not going to defend Rip too much, he does say a lot of funky **** but I have to point out that he doesn't prescribe GOMAD to most people... He uses it for what it is, a weight gainer for underweight people. I think it can make sense for SOME people for a short period of time

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I like how the study I posted was completely ignored...

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not going to defend Rip too much, he does say a lot of funky **** and I mostly quoted him to trigger veganboy, but I have to point out that he doesn't prescribe GOMAD to most people... He uses it for what it is, a weight gainer for underweight people. I think it can make sense for SOME people for a short period of time

Yes I know. He states that he only advises it to people who want a quick bulk, and mentions that he is in no way saying it is healthy.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Right...

Typical vegan response. You are no different than them, except in the opposite direction.

Rip is clueless when it comes to health, you pretty much said it yourself.

 

[Kriss E]

Brand new massive meta-analysis on the positive health effects of vegan and vegetarian diets: Vegetarian, vegan diets and multiple health outcomes: A systematic review with meta-analysis of observational studies. - PubMed - NCBI

CONCLUSION:
This comprehensive meta-analysis reports a significant protective effect of a vegetarian diet versus the incidence and/or mortality from ischemic heart disease (-25%) and incidence from total cancer (-8%). Vegan diet conferred a significant reduced risk (-15%) of incidence from total cancer.

BOTTOM LINE:
A Vegan diet will significantly reduce your risk factor for both ischemic heart disease and cancer- the 2 biggest killers in North America.

BOOM

*cue something something bias bias something something*

There isn't enough info about this study. We know nothing of the candidates or what they actually ate.
Were the vegans and vegetarians given broccoli and tofu while the "omnivores" bacon and hot dogs?
There is close to no information here.

And ironic considering how you ignore all counter studies every time.