First Team All-Stars Pre-1970 of guys who could make the NHL as they were

[Sentinel]

According to some Daver's fellow Pittsburgh fans, none. To them hockey started in 2009 and the 50s Habs would lose to 2018 Blue Jackets.

My picks would be:

Sawchuk
Orr
Kelly
Hull
Believeau
Firsov (just for fun)

 

[Killion]

Write books, I would read them. This is hilarious.

Imagine Cournoyer on the new skates? He’d be the fastest guy in the league easy. Players might have trouble w new sticks (I’d like to see a segment where Lafleur tries them) but the skates ...

... meh..... know what I'd like to see tiny?... I'd like to see a composite in the hands of the notoriously reckless Dennis Hull.... thats what I'd like to see.... and his brother Bobby... him too..... reckon it would more resemble a game of Jai Alai and you'd absolutely have to drape netting all the way around the rink, not just behind the nets.... all the glass replaced with chicken wire. No way it wouldnt shatter.

 

[tinyzombies]

Lafleur is young and fit enough to give a good example. Give it to them at a young age with those new skates in the new speed oriented NHL and...

And maybe it wouldn’t be a problem at all:

“Buffalo Sabres head coach Lindy Ruff, who ended his 12-year NHL playing career more than 20 years ago, says that, as a coach, he'll occasionally pick up one of his players' composite sticks at practice and unleash a shot that comes off the blade “like a rocket.”

“It makes you feel like you could still play,” says the coach, just a touch wistfully.”

For the record I thought Super Tacks were awful!

 

[tinyzombies]

1980:

 

[Killion]

^^^ Very cool find tinyzombies. Foster Hewitt an eye witness to a whole lot of hockey. Can certainly cut him some slack with respect to Gretzky as this was 1980, records had yet to be broken, a career just beginning.

 

[tinyzombies]

Take Gretz out and it’s pretty accurate. I would bump Orr’s toughness up a notch tho- biased oldtimers... sheesh. Also Foster might have been fooled into thinking all eras were equal.

 

[Killion]

Take Gretz out and it’s pretty accurate. I would bump Orr’s toughness up a notch tho- biased oldtimers... sheesh. Also Foster might have been fooled into thinking all eras were equal.

Yeah, we could actually take his rankings apart player x player, upgrade some rankings, downgrade others in whatever department.... Of course, it was 1980 so we have to cut Foster a break on Gretzky as he'd have only have seen him perhaps at the WHA level, with the Oilers during their 1st season. He's off on every single category & I would argue including size & strength as Gretzky had a "different kind of size & strength" that was in every sense not just equal too the biggest, baddest, hardest checking & intimidating player to have ever played, but in many ways surpassed them as his size, strength & "roughness" was in his ability to dodge or roll off checks/hits.

That requires some serious toughness & resiliency, obviously serious intelligence as well. And that is toughness, that is rugged. Absolutely Gretzky played through pain, slings & arrows. No way he went unscathed. We know he got nailed several times, back problems etc. He was tough, more than tough enough. Just not a fighter. Checker. So I'm guessin here Foster Hewitt going totally old school with that "size & strength / roughness" category as to Gretzkys willingness to fight & how he'd acquitted himself, to lay on the body himself & so on. Could go on & on about that one.... but if we look then at where he's rated them, his Top 6 All Time (excluding Gretzky) would be;

1. Gordie Howe
2. Maurice Richard
3. Howie Morenz
4. Bobby Hull
5. Jean Beliveau
6. Bobby Orr

Now, I dont know about you Dead Wee People.... but I have a REAL problem with Foster Hewitts' rankings & ratings when you lay it all out like that. I saw all of those guys play with the exception of Morenz, didnt see The Rocket in his peak-prime but Ive seen enough old game film etc, read plenty, old-timers regaling me with stories who played with or against him, saw him... and on what planet you'd rank any of them over Bobby Orr I have no idea. By 1980 Foster would have seen plenty enough of Bobby Orr yet there he is underrating the guy?... Typical Torontonian. See, Ive got Morons on my team, always have.

In fact, as far as Centers, Forwards are concerned, give me a peak-prime Bobby Hull over Howe, Richard, Morenz or Beliveau any day, all day Sunday.... and my apologies to Howie Morenz, but based again on my research, what Ive heard & so on, I do not believe for one second he was the Machine that was Robert..... Bobbo.... The Marvelous Marvin Hull.... numero neuf.... number 9..... dyeh-vit'... numero yhdeksan... nummer nio.... numero nueve... nummer neun... no matter the country or planet Foster the Whitebread Broadcast Boy. Bisquick Head. Cold bowl of sugarless & sour olde Quaker Oats.... Its Bobby Hull.... Now if you wanna talk Gretzky, ranking him up to 1990 or 2000, Mario Lemieux & so on, whole other debate.

 

[BlueBull]

The Debate is wether one of the pre 1970 teams could play in the modern NHL and thrive?
If I were to merge say... the 1956 Montreal Canadiens with the 2018 Montreal Canadiens.
I would keep most players on the team, some of the shorter ones would be down, but I think only 5-6 players from 2018 would be on that squad. I would also say that they would be a playoff team, a good ol' Old School Strategy can work if the team is good enough.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Yeah, we could actually take his rankings apart player x player, upgrade some rankings, downgrade others in whatever department.... Of course, it was 1980 so we have to cut Foster a break on Gretzky as he'd have only have seen him perhaps at the WHA level, with the Oilers during their 1st season. He's off on every single category & I would argue including size & strength as Gretzky had a "different kind of size & strength" that was in every sense not just equal too the biggest, baddest, hardest checking & intimidating player to have ever played, but in many ways surpassed them as his size, strength & "roughness" was in his ability to dodge or roll off checks/hits.

That requires some serious toughness & resiliency, obviously serious intelligence as well. And that is toughness, that is rugged. Absolutely Gretzky played through pain, slings & arrows. No way he went unscathed. We know he got nailed several times, back problems etc. He was tough, more than tough enough. Just not a fighter. Checker. So I'm guessin here Foster Hewitt going totally old school with that "size & strength / roughness" category as to Gretzkys willingness to fight & how he'd acquitted himself, to lay on the body himself & so on. Could go on & on about that one.... but if we look then at where he's rated them, his Top 6 All Time (excluding Gretzky) would be;

1. Gordie Howe
2. Maurice Richard
3. Howie Morenz
4. Bobby Hull
5. Jean Beliveau
6. Bobby Orr

Now, I dont know about you Dead Wee People.... but I have a REAL problem with Foster Hewitts' rankings & ratings when you lay it all out like that. I saw all of those guys play with the exception of Morenz, didnt see The Rocket in his peak-prime but Ive seen enough old game film etc, read plenty, old-timers regaling me with stories who played with or against him, saw him... and on what planet you'd rank any of them over Bobby Orr I have no idea. By 1980 Foster would have seen plenty enough of Bobby Orr yet there he is underrating the guy?... Typical Torontonian. See, Ive got Morons on my team, always have.

In fact, as far as Centers, Forwards are concerned, give me a peak-prime Bobby Hull over Howe, Richard, Morenz or Beliveau any day, all day Sunday.... and my apologies to Howie Morenz, but based again on my research, what Ive heard & so on, I do not believe for one second he was the Machine that was Robert..... Bobbo.... The Marvelous Marvin Hull.... numero neuf.... number 9..... dyeh-vit'... numero yhdeksan... nummer nio.... numero nueve... nummer neun... no matter the country or planet Foster the Whitebread Broadcast Boy. Bisquick Head. Cold bowl of sugarless & sour olde Quaker Oats.... Its Bobby Hull.... Now if you wanna talk Gretzky, ranking him up to 1990 or 2000, Mario Lemieux & so on, whole other debate.

"Ive got Morons on my team....."

(Spit) Bingo!

 

[Killion]

"Ive got Morons on my team....."

(Spit) Bingo!

Ya? Un momento Mr. Bonvie.

A) Your not a resident of Toronto
B) Your not a resident of Southern Ontario.
C) Your not a Canadian citizen.

Your not allowed to criticize. Me on the other hand?... Oh ya. Go nuclear.... Dont go all nuke on Bahstin, Chicago, NY... wherever. Why?. Not my place. Incensed I leave to you, to locals. Thats just good policy no?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Ya? Un momento Mr. Bonvie.

A) Your not a resident of Toronto
B) Your not a resident of Southern Ontario.
C) Your not a Canadian citizen.

Your not allowed to criticize.

Not a criticism, but an acknowledgement of your reference.

Unless, of course you have reached senility and think "Ive got Morons on my team....." is a Killion original.

 

[Killion]

Not a criticism, but an acknowledgement of your reference.

Unless, of course you have reached senility and think "Ive got Morons on my team....." is a Killion original.

... Best you got Buddy? ... Bring it.... Stoned yer ALL TIME BEST. Orr etc. Wat you got?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

... Best you got Buddy? ... Bring it.... Stoned yer ALL TIME BEST. Orr etc. Wat you got?

"Ive got Morons on my team....." from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, 1969. Delivered by Strother Martin, best known on these boards as GM McGrath for the Charlestown Chiefs of Slapshot fame.

"Morons. I've got morons on my team. Nobody is going to rob us going down the mountain. We have got no money going down the mountain. When we have got the money, on the way back, then you can sweat."

Shame on you for stealing his line!

 

[BenchBrawl]

Nice find @tinyzombies

Lafleur very high scores.Though of course in 1980 Lafleur mania was still ongoing.

 

[Killion]

"Ive got Morons on my team....." from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, 1969. Delivered by Strother Martin, best known on these boards as GM McGrath for the Charlestown Chiefs of Slapshot fame.

"Morons. I've got morons on my team. Nobody is going to rob us going down the mountain. We have got no money going down the mountain. When we have got the money, on the way back, then you can sweat."

Shame on you for stealing his line!

Old Strother got a lot of great lines did he not?.... "failure to communicate" etc etc etc..... Appeared in a number of Paul Newmans & John Waynes' films..... He'd been a National Diving Champ as a teenager, nicknamed T~Bone, patented dive of some sort apparently though hard to imagine him as athletic per se'. In the minds-eye forever middle-aged, old & crusty. Cantankerous.

 

[tinyzombies]

I wonder how Ralph Backstrom would answer this question. He would probably say, ‘Well if you level the playing field and give us all modern equipment...”

That’s the player we are ranking- the 7 year VsX with assumed equipment and training upgrade.

We aren’t taking Jean Beliveau in 1956 CCM skates and saying he’s a 6 or 7 skater. Because then middle class McDavid has to be shipped back to 1956 and get his ass kicked by a bunch of working class guys and rural farmboys. And pretty boy isn’t going to get the calls from the let-them-play-I-can’t -call-everything refs. Also, he’s not going to know about jumping laterally on one foot while deking training exercises.

Everyone says the NHL is about speed now, but style changes have occurred since the beginning, sometimes because of rule changes like now. The Kings were able to beat speed.