#FIRECHIA

[MaxR11]

they had talent but weren't good...a good core wins hockey games
a good core would show some sort of progression in terms of winning games

all that old core was able to do was be associated with losing hockey games and finishing bottom 5 every year


its hilarious the people preaching "patience" now were the same people clamoring for change (not you specifically)
people forget how fed up fans were of losing back in 2016

bingo. people confuse talent with being a good nhl player that is a postive factor for your team. those two things do not always go hand in hand.

there have been countless prospects and players drafted into the NHL with immense talent that never become good NHL players or NHL players that are a big positive for their teams.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

bingo. people confuse talent with being a good nhl player that is a postive factor for your team. those two things do not always go hand in hand.

there have been countless prospects and players drafted into the NHL with immense talent that never become good NHL players or NHL players that are a big positive for their teams.

Most of those were drafted by the Oilers and JP is their next victim.

This team lacks both talent and NHL caliber players.

 

[harpoon]

hall and ebs here in edmonton were definitely a net negative impact. esp hall.

I can't be the only one who feels embarrassed reading drivel like this on the Oiler board.

 

[CupofOil]

Sigh, here is the tragedy. The pure heart drenching tragedy. So here we go, the oil suck for 10 years, forever. but they build up a core of McD, Hall, Nuge, Ebs, Nurse, Klef, Drai.... An amazing core that would win cups no doubt, perhaps be a better dynasty that the Hawks or Pens. In comes Chia...... ohhh, I want team toughness and chemistry, which I can't actually find. Lets trade Hall for a slow, ok, mid range D... Now lets trade Ebs for beans.... also all out picks, gone for Rienhart.

We will never get how good that core could have been together. I think finally next year we will get just a bit as Nuge and McD will light it up, but never get what could have been if idiot Chia doesn't come along.

It really is the ultimate tradegy, suck forever, save up talent, Chia comes in a sends of assets like they were a free cheese platter.

You're unbelievable. You bought completely into the Hall/Larsson trade just last offseason and now the difference between sucking and having one of the greatest dynasties in hockey history is Hall and Larsson. Unreal

Also, I love how Larsson went from a solid #2 Dman to a slow, middling, average 2nd pairing Dman in just one season, it's like he completely forget how to play at the ripe old age of 24. All it took was one season for the fate of the Oilers entire future to go from perennial contender to complete suck.

 

[CupofOil]

Mcdavid, Draisatl, RNH, Eberle, Hall, Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz, 2015 first, 2015 2nd is not a poor core.

The fact we came out of it with only Strome and Larsson is appalling yet people keep defending it for some reason.

Every single dman traded the last 3 summers has cost less then Hall (except Weber but again that's a bad trade too).

I'm curious, which Dmen are you referring to?
Also, which of those Dmen were signed to a long term $4M contract and was playing top pairing minutes at the time of trade?

 

[CupofOil]

The fantasy belief some have that Larsson is going to have a better season than Hall next year, because this is just going to flip flop back and forth is incredibly silly. That's not how real life sports works. This isn't first grade recess where everyone gets a turn.

Hall is going to be on multiple more All-Star teams for the rest of his career, Larsson is half the player Hall is. Hall is one of the best wingers in the league, Larsson isn't even the best defender on the Oilers.

Even Hall's first "terrible! unimaginable!" year PPG in Jersey is 0.73 ppg ... that's about the same as Nugent Hopkins THIS year, which everyone is falling over themselves to say Nuge had a "fantastic!" season, lol, Hall does that on his down time. The hypocrisy is fairly obvious.

This is just more excuses for a management group gifted Connor McDavid and is too stupid to get the job done. They got massively ripped off in this trade and several other deals as well.

The problem with this is that some of you are stat watchers without looking at the trade in proper context like role on respective teams.

For instance, Hall was never going to be the go to scorer here while Larsson is taking on the toughest ES minutes for the team. In New Jersey, Hall is THE driving force for that team so he's going to get every opportunity in prime offensive situations as the go to guy.

You can cite point totals as a reason why this trade is the rip off of the decade but the bottom line is that Hall would have never had that role here so it's IMO, it's useless to argue that the Oilers traded away a Hart level, multi-All Star player when he wasn't that here and likely wouldn't have been.

Of course it would have been fantastic to have a Hall-Draisaitl 2nd line or Hall driving a 3rd scoring line similar to Kessel but I'm more than happy to have Larsson as a tough minute defender for the next 5 years and I wish more Oiler fans would appreciate and support him instead of lamenting the loss of Hall constantly.

With that said, as I've said before, the Oilers were never going to win this trade from a pure player value standpoint but there's more that goes into trades than pure talent.

 

[shoop]

For instance, Hall was never going to be the go to scorer here while Larsson is taking on the toughest ES minutes for the team. In New Jersey, Hall is THE driving force for that team so he's going to get every opportunity in prime offensive situations as the go to guy.

With that said, as I've said before, the Oilers were never going to win this trade from a pure player value standpoint but there's more that goes into trades than pure talent.

Some excellent posts.

The only thing I would add is how does Hall impact the locker room if the Oilers keep him. The Oilers wanted McDavid to be the undisputed leader of this team. It's difficult for a rock star talent to play second fiddle to a generational talent. When it happens you can get some fantastic results. Messier did that with Gretzky. Scottie Pippen did that with Michael Jordan. Maybe the Oilers got that Hall just wasn't ready, willing or able to do that?

If ever there was a true win-win in a trade it was the Larsson-Hall trade. People will still criticize Chiarelli whenever this team doesn't meet their standards and use the trade as an example of that.

 

[booyakasha]

Some excellent posts.

The only thing I would add is how does Hall impact the locker room if the Oilers keep him. The Oilers wanted McDavid to be the undisputed leader of this team. It's difficult for a rock star talent to play second fiddle to a generational talent. When it happens you can get some fantastic results. Messier did that with Gretzky. Scottie Pippen did that with Michael Jordan. Maybe the Oilers got that Hall just wasn't ready, willing or able to do that?

If ever there was a true win-win in a trade it was the Larsson-Hall trade. People will still criticize Chiarelli whenever this team doesn't meet their standards and use the trade as an example of that.

I don't think McDavid is much of a leader.

 

[shoop]

I don't think McDavid is much of a leader.

Fair enough. He needs to learn though.

 

[booyakasha]

Fair enough. He needs to learn though.

He doesn't come across as the guy who speaks up in the locker room, and I don't see any delegating or holding anyone to accountablilty when on the bench.
Some people are born leaders, and not sure that can be tuaght, and learned.

 

[CupofOil]

He doesn't come across as the guy who speaks up in the locker room, and I don't see any delegating or holding anyone to accountablilty when on the bench.
Some people are born leaders, and not sure that can be tuaght, and learned.

Sakic and Yzerman were two of the best leaders of all time and both were quiet as can be, same with Crosby and Gretzky for that matter. You don't need to be a big "rah rah" guy to be a great leader.

With that said, it's almost impossible to quantify great leadership without knowing what really happens behind the scenes.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Sakic and Yzerman were two of the best leaders of all time and both were quiet as can be, same with Crosby and Gretzky for that matter. You don't need to be a big "rah rah" guy to be a great leader.

With that said, it's almost impossible to quantify great leadership without knowing what really happens behind the scenes.

Hopefully he got some tips from Hendricks.

 

[MaxR11]

The problem with this is that some of you are stat watchers without looking at the trade in proper context like role on respective teams.

For instance, Hall was never going to be the go to scorer here while Larsson is taking on the toughest ES minutes for the team. In New Jersey, Hall is THE driving force for that team so he's going to get every opportunity in prime offensive situations as the go to guy.

You can cite point totals as a reason why this trade is the rip off of the decade but the bottom line is that Hall would have never had that role here so it's IMO, it's useless to argue that the Oilers traded away a Hart level, multi-All Star player when he wasn't that here and likely wouldn't have been.

Of course it would have been fantastic to have a Hall-Draisaitl 2nd line or Hall driving a 3rd scoring line similar to Kessel but I'm more than happy to have Larsson as a tough minute defender for the next 5 years and I wish more Oiler fans would appreciate and support him instead of lamenting the loss of Hall constantly.

With that said, as I've said before, the Oilers were never going to win this trade from a pure player value standpoint but there's more that goes into trades than pure talent.

100% it's all about context. it's too simple minded to just look at individual stats. team sports such as hockey have so many dynamic and interacting variables.

even if you are talking from a pure player value it can be argued that hall definitely does some things better than larsson but larsson also does some things better than hall.... the difference is the things hall does better shows up as individual stats such as goals and assists. a lot of the things larsson does may not show up in any stats but may contribute to a team's win just as much as hall. granted hall won the battle this year but larsson definitely won it last year.

essentially it comes down to winning games and there are a lot of ways to contribute to that don't have to do with flashy goal and assist totals. it's frustrating that some people cannot grasp this.

 

[shoop]

He doesn't come across as the guy who speaks up in the locker room, and I don't see any delegating or holding anyone to accountablilty when on the bench.
Some people are born leaders, and not sure that can be tuaght, and learned.

Leadership skills can absolutely be taught. Universities teach them all the time. A primary focus of military academies, Royal Military College or Westpoint, is to do just that.

There are certainly different leadership styles so you may not always see the leader on a team holding people to account on the bench for example.

If McDavid wants to take that jump into the Gretzky/Messier/Lemieux/Yzerman/Crosby tier of multiple cup rings, all time great and sure fire hall of famer then he has to be the leader of this team.

 

[harpoon]

Of course it would have been fantastic to have a Hall-Draisaitl 2nd line or Hall driving a 3rd scoring line similar to Kessel but I'm more than happy to have Larsson as a tough minute defender for the next 5 years

That sounds about right. The difference between 'fantastic', and 'more than happy'. Most people would rather have the former ten times out of ten.

and I wish more Oiler fans would appreciate and support him instead of lamenting the loss of Hall constantly.

Chiarelli supporters can try to make this a trade about Larsson but it isn't. There are many posters who criticize Chiarelli yet still recognize that Larsson is a decent, hard working player who is useful to the team. I resent the continued attempts to make it sound like any defense of Hall (in the face of absurd allegations like 'he was a net negative in Edmonton') is a slam on Larsson. Take the players' names out of the equation on focus on the fact that we have a GM who traded 'fantastic' for 'more than happy', and has done so repeatedly. Not interested in being the sort of fan that accepts and excuses that kind of a talent down grade. Nor it would seem are most fans on this board.

With that said, as I've said before, the Oilers were never going to win this trade from a pure player value standpoint but there's more that goes into trades than pure talent.

Then its a trade they shouldn't have made. But Chiarelli doesn't have the sense of a goldfish and doesn't learn from his mistakes. He needs a good firing.

 

[belair]

He doesn't come across as the guy who speaks up in the locker room, and I don't see any delegating or holding anyone to accountablilty when on the bench.
Some people are born leaders, and not sure that can be tuaght, and learned.

We're talking about a kid who's 21 years old. He came into this league and was mature beyond his years. I think it's probably a good thing that he's not preaching accountability for other teammates just yet considering he hasn't exactly paid his dues at this point in his young career. The fact that he's been willing to bite the bullet on occasion speaks volumes of his own accountability. If you don't think he's going to be a prominent voice in the NHL 5 or 6 years from now though, I'm not sure where your head is regarding the player.

I agree that there's something fundamentally wrong with handing the team's captaincy to a player in his early twenties, but I can understand that you want the voice of your locker room to lead out on the ice.

 

[booyakasha]

We're talking about a kid who's 21 years old. He came into this league and was mature beyond his years. I think it's probably a good thing that he's not preaching accountability for other teammates just yet considering he hasn't exactly paid his dues at this point in his young career. If you don't think he's going to be a prominent voice in the NHL 5 or 6 years from now though, I'm not sure where your head is regarding the player.

I agree that there's something fundamentally wrong with handing the team's captaincy to a player in his early twenties, but I can understand that you want the voice of your locker room to lead out on the ice.

Where did I say this?

 

[belair]

Where did I say this?

The part where you said the some people are just 'born leaders' and that those values 'can't necessarily be taught or learned'.

 

[booyakasha]

The part where you said the some people are just 'born leaders' and that those values 'can't necessarily be taught or learned'.

That has nothing to do about him being a prominent face of the NHL...that's a given.
My point was about him being a captain, and my opinion of his leadership qualities.

 

[Soundwave]

Bottom line is this franchise is one of the worst managed teams in the NHL, if not the worst.

The problem with this franchise begins and ends with the six men standing around Connor McDavid (I'll give the Katz kid a break since I have no idea if he even does anything). They are all culpable for this mess, Connor can't go anywhere as long as the men in this photo around him keep screwing up.

You can't keep hand waving away bad moves, every GM we have had for the last 11 years makes 2-3 bad moves for every single good one, and that continues right to this day with Chiarelli. If that's how you are going to be managed as a franchise then don't sit there dumb-struck that you're not very good.

We haven't missed the playoffs 10/11 years and 2/3 years AFTER getting freaking Connor McDavid by accident. It takes persistently bad management to achieve this result, that's the only way this is possible. Making the playoffs should not even be that big of a deal, more than 50% of the league makes it every year, the fact that its been deified by Oiler fans as like climbing Mount Everest is just sad.

Poor management is the consistent constant for the last 11 years for this franchise, and the results will always be as a whole bad when you have bad management. You might be able to eek out a good year here or there but as a whole, you will always get exposed for crap management.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I didn't say any of that ****, though. I don't have to answer for the weird snap judgments of SOME of the posters on this board.

I never said you did...just pointing out the mentality of some posters on here

Patience wasn't and, IMO, isn't the right approach. But the wrong approach was selling off talent for cents on the dollar. FWIW, I don't hate the Schultz move. The Oilers ruined that and it was best for everyone to move on at that point.

that's where I disagree

Larsson's value is elsewhere than simply just "points"
Larsson plays the tough ES minutes and has been excelling at them for years...he allows others like Sekera and Russell and Nurse to play further down the line-up and in their appropriate slots and minutes

no the trade will never be a "win" because Hall is flashier and puts up more points...but he addressed a fundamental flaw in the team and something that's been missing for ages...a legit top-pairing minute-munching defenseman

 

[Cloned]

Bottom line is this franchise is one of the worst managed teams in the NHL, if not the worst.

The problem with this franchise begins and ends with the six men standing around Connor McDavid (I'll give the Katz kid a break since I have no idea if he even does anything). They are all culpable for this mess, Connor can't go anywhere as long as the men in this photo around him keep screwing up.

You can't keep hand waving away bad moves, every GM we have had for the last 11 years makes 2-3 bad moves for every single good one, and that continues right to this day with Chiarelli. If that's how you are going to be managed as a franchise then don't sit there dumb-struck that you're not very good.

We haven't missed the playoffs 10/11 years and 2/3 years AFTER getting freaking Connor McDavid by accident. It takes persistently bad management to achieve this result, that's the only way this is possible. Making the playoffs should not even be that big of a deal, more than 50% of the league makes it every year, the fact that its been deified by Oiler fans as like climbing Mount Everest is just sad.

Poor management is the consistent constant for the last 11 years for this franchise, and the results will always be as a whole bad when you have bad management. You might be able to eek out a good year here or there but as a whole, you will always get exposed for crap management.

Katz' kid might be a better GM than Chiarelli.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Katz' kid might be a better GM than Chiarelli.

Please don’t give the organization ideas.

 

[Spawn]

So Lou Lam taking over for the Islanders?

Maybe means Snow is on the outs?

Thank god means Chia can't trade with that idiot anymore.

 

[Soundwave]

Islanders upgrade to Lou, Wild get Fenton, we're stuck with the same garbage.