#FIRECHIA

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shoop

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Jul 6, 2008
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In my most recent post in this thread I also criticized Chia for his lack of filling the backup goalie position and getting top9 wingers going into this season ... so, I really don't know why you're attacking me for being some huge Chia supporter. I'm just trying to have a rational view on what has transpired here since he took over and not just blindly hate on everything.

The problem is that anyone who isn't an absolute Chia hater gets criticized as a Chia fanboy.

The post you replied to childishly calls Chiarelli a "complete dumbs--t". That's the infantile level of argument from the Chiarelli haters.

Life is very black and white to these people. A revolving door in the GM job won't help. They bleat about wasting contract years of McD, but it has been a progression. Chiarelli will get the fourth year of his contract. I think if they Oilers are in the playoff hunt come St. Patrick's Day that should be enough to keep his job, but some will want playoffs or bust.

People complain about lack of a backup goalie? We are in miles better position on that front than we were last season. Defence was decimated by injuries last year, but people blame Chiarelli for that. No one has provided info on when the team knew Klefa was hurt. That's a big part of criticizing Chiarelli on the defence front.
 

shoop

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The problem with this is that all you do is state Chia's accomplishments with no perspective. Not talking about the moves he actually made and at what cost.

He isn't a good GM and never will be a good one.

I was replying to someone saying Chia's never shown any indication that he learns from his mistakes.

I pointed out the positives and you criticized it for 'no perspective'. Your post was all negative with nothing positive about anything he has done. Why isn't perspective required for posters criticizing Chiarelli? Quid pro quo.
 

Zaddy

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Feb 8, 2013
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The problem is that anyone who isn't an absolute Chia hater gets criticized as a Chia fanboy.

The post you replied to childishly calls Chiarelli a "complete dumbs--t". That's the infantile level of argument from the Chiarelli haters.

Life is very black and white to these people. A revolving door in the GM job won't help. They bleat about wasting contract years of McD, but it has been a progression. Chiarelli will get the fourth year of his contract. I think if they Oilers are in the playoff hunt come St. Patrick's Day that should be enough to keep his job, but some will want playoffs or bust.

People complain about lack of a backup goalie? We are in miles better position on that front than we were last season. Defence was decimated by injuries last year, but people blame Chiarelli for that. No one has provided info on when the team knew Klefa was hurt. That's a big part of criticizing Chiarelli on the defence front.

Yup to the bolded, and I don't really understand why. I guess some people just had a huge emotional connection to Hall/Eberle. But maybe then it'd be more healthy to go and cheer for the Devils or Isles instead of rambling on about how awful Chia is.
 
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KeithIsActuallyBad

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Yup to the bolded, and I don't really understand why. I guess some people just had a huge emotional connection to Hall/Eberle. But maybe then it'd be more healthy to go and cheer for the Devils or Isles instead of rambling on about how awful Chia is.
You can like Hall and Eberle, not be a fan of Chiarelli and still cheer for the Oilers.

Last season was a huge waste and the majority of that is on the General Manager.
 
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oilynutz

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You can like Hall and Eberle, not be a fan of Chiarelli and still cheer for the Oilers.

Last season was a huge waste and the majority of that is on the General Manager.

The majority of that is our top 3 dmen being hurt or recovering from an injury
 
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Drivesaitl

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I think everybody agrees it's make or break for Chiarelli. What is the make though?

Does 92 points and just missing the playoffs mean he loses his job?

With an in prime McD and Draisaitl in tow, yes. That expectation should be a minimum especially after failing to reach the playoffs 2/3 times while gifted with the best player on the planet. Chia inherited huge assets in addition to these in a lineup that just needed some time. But he trades the best players we had for middling return.
 

Drivesaitl

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If you are going to attack the guy try and be honest.

The NMC/NTC line is just inaccurate. Five teams in the league have fewer NTC/NMC than the Oilers. What more can you do other than refuse to ever give out an NTC/NMC? The average number of NTC?NMC per team is 5.7. If Chia is giving out fewer NTC/NMC than average characterizing him 'giving away NMC like candy' is flat out dishonest.

Cap management? Yeah, not so smart last year. We'll see how this off-season goes. I think he has been a little too free with the buyouts and that's his major issue with cap management.

Losing major trades? Hall/Larsson is still hotly debated. Reinhart is on the OBC. What other major trades lost? Eberle had a huge cap component to it.

How on Earth is Hall/Larsson hotly debated? Nobody would deem that one is worth the other. As others have mentioned NJ would have to be crazy to redo that deal. Chia was crazy for doing it. An interminable trait with him.

Hall, Seguin, Wheeler, Kessel. That's what people mean when they say he never learns. I rue the day we got stuck with this dolt GM.
 

CycloneSweep

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Chia is good with the small signings and the smaller deals. Struggles with contract negotiations and the big deals. Takes massive risks that I don't think have ever paid off. His small ones often do though.
 
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McGoMcD

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Aug 14, 2005
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I was replying to someone saying Chia's never shown any indication that he learns from his mistakes.

I pointed out the positives and you criticized it for 'no perspective'. Your post was all negative with nothing positive about anything he has done. Why isn't perspective required for posters criticizing Chiarelli? Quid pro quo.

I don't see what your replying to being that important, the bottom line is you were making a statement about Chia. The statement was the same one you and many others have been making about him. That he has accomplished this and that, that he made trades to fill much needed holes, that the players he signed were to fill holes. None of this references that what he has accomplished depends highly on what he started with. Forget the Bruins but this is 100% with the Oilers. He started by taking over a team that just won the rights to the best player in the game. Then you give him a ton of credit for finally making the payoffs while others have failed to do so, over and over agian ignoring that Chia had way more to work with. Furthermore with regards to trades and signings. Over and over you bring up he improved the defence, but ignore the costs. He got Larsson at the cost of Hall. He signed Russel at the cost of giving him 4 mill for 4 years and a NMC. He got Sekera by overpaying him too.

All his accomplishments are based on starting with huge assets. After he gets a boat load of assets he squanders them in trades, did this here and in Boston (cough cough Seguin). Then he signs a bunch of players he likes to bloated contracts that should't be handed out (cough cough Lucic). He doesn't learn from his mistakes, he clearly repeats them over and over. He is doing here exactly what he did in Boston, start with lots and slowly turn it into shit.
 
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McGoMcD

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Chia is good with the small signings and the smaller deals. Struggles with contract negotiations and the big deals. Takes massive risks that I don't think have ever paid off. His small ones often do though.

Ya, unfortunately the trades and signings are much more important. Also not even clear he is that good at the small things. He got Maroon, ok, great. He also lost Pitlick, Pouliot, Oesterle ect, also small but bad moves. I am not sure his small moves even add up to anything good.
 

Drivesaitl

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Yup to the bolded, and I don't really understand why. I guess some people just had a huge emotional connection to Hall/Eberle. But maybe then it'd be more healthy to go and cheer for the Devils or Isles instead of rambling on about how awful Chia is.

This is silly. If you trade a Taylor Hall for far less in return the trade had better result in unmistakable intangible reward for the club. This was a huge disparity in the respective players in the trade. If you lose a trade that badly it had better result in what you said it would.

That trade alone should be firing worthy. It should never have been approved or allowed to even occur.

As low as points have been with the Oilers that was the lowest point that most fans here have experienced in their tenure. What kind of maroon trades a Taylor Hall for a Larsson?

At least it was transformative for one team. Expectedly.
 
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shoop

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With an in prime McD and Draisaitl in tow, yes. That expectation should be a minimum especially after failing to reach the playoffs 2/3 times while gifted with the best player on the planet. Chia inherited huge assets in addition to these in a lineup that just needed some time. But he trades the best players we had for middling return.

Oh, the gifted best player on the planet missed half of one of those two seasons out of the playoffs? Convenient fact you omitted there.

All his accomplishments are based on starting with huge assets. After he gets a boat load of assets he squanders them in trades, did this here and in Boston (cough cough Seguin). Then he signs a bunch of players he likes to bloated contracts that should't be handed out (cough cough Lucic). He doesn't learn from his mistakes, he clearly repeats them over and over. He is doing here exactly what he did in Boston, start with lots and slowly turn it into ****.

So when you asked for perspective you really asked for a hate on for Chiarelli?

My posts have at least offered some criticism of Chiarelli. Yet, you still haven't said one positive thing about him. Correction, getting Maroon was 'ok'. Half-arsed positive thing. "Perspective" is a two-way street. Quid pro quo.
 

CycloneSweep

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Sep 27, 2017
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Oh, the gifted best player on the planet missed half of one of those two seasons out of the playoffs? Convenient fact you omitted there.
To be completely honest on this one, our record was actually worse with McDavid than without. Team was bad enough that he didn't even make a difference.
 

McGoMcD

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Oh, the gifted best player on the planet missed half of one of those two seasons out of the playoffs? Convenient fact you omitted there.



So when you asked for perspective you really asked for a hate on for Chiarelli?

My posts have at least offered some criticism of Chiarelli. Yet, you still haven't said one positive thing about him. Correction, getting Maroon was 'ok'. Half-arsed positive thing. "Perspective" is a two-way street. Quid pro quo.

I don't have to say anything good about Chia (ok, so he does have a decent Moustache). There is no reason I need to, you don't need to say anything bad about him either. The point is to logically discuss the points the others have made, they could be all pro Chia, all against, or in the middle. All that is needed is to address each point. I think you continually make the same errors. You say what has accomplished ignoring the fact he started with huge assets, both in Edmonton and Boston. I point out over and over that you saying he finally got the oilers to the playoffs when others have failed is just silly, cause the others didn't have McD. But over and over you say Chia getting the playoffs is a big accomplishment ignoring he started with way more than any other GM.

Furthermore, you continually state how trade X or signing Y helped the team, ignoring that all most all of those signings and trades appear to be bad value wise.

It really doesn't' matter if I hate Chia, and just hate him so much. Or I am just logically addressing what I see to be the truth. To me I am doing the latter. The major point is you continually seem to do what I just stated. Of course we can always agree to disagree, thats fine. It is just my opinion that over and over agian you make the same two errors. People continually state how much Chia had to work with in Boston, it seems undeniable he had a mound of assets to build on, yet years later he got fired for squandering those assets and handing out bad contracts. People continually point how Hall for Larsson was a terrible deal value wise and that Chia made the playoffs with the Hart trophy winner on his team can't be seen as some great accomplishment.
 

CupofOil

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Aug 20, 2009
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Well for starters I'm not a 'Peter fan'. I'm defending the moves I think he did well, and criticizing him for the ones I hated (Reinhart trade, Eberle trade) as well as the lack of moves/upgrades this offseason.

In my most recent post in this thread I also criticized Chia for his lack of filling the backup goalie position and getting top9 wingers going into this season ... so, I really don't know why you're attacking me for being some huge Chia supporter. I'm just trying to have a rational view on what has transpired here since he took over and not just blindly hate on everything.

So true. It's impossible to mention any positive he's done without being called a "fan boy" or "delusional" or whatever the groupthink wants to trot out. You have to hate every single thing he's ever done to belong in the club and if you say anything positive, you're kicked off the island.

If you bring up the Talbot trade, it was a gift from Sather but in the same token, you're not allowed to use the OBC excuse for Reinhart (I put the blame on Chia for this deal btw). If you mention the Sekera signing, they say that any GM would have done that and apparently it's an overpay even though it was market value for him at the time.

I happen to think that Chia has done more bad than good and finishing bottom 10 two out of three seasons with the best player on the planet, regardless of how young he is, is inexcusable but it's a problem on this board when posters can't mention any positive he's done without being labelled a Chia fan boy. You shouldn't have to walk on egg shells on your own team board when you have a valid opinion that differs from the consensus.
 
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Jamin

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So true. It's impossible to mention any positive he's done without being called a "fan boy" or "delusional" or whatever the groupthink wants to trot out. You have to hate every single thing he's ever done to belong in the club and if you say anything positive, you're kicked off the island.

If you bring up the Talbot trade, it was a gift from Sather but in the same token, you're not allowed to use the OBC excuse for Reinhart (I put the blame on Chia for this deal btw). If you mention the Sekera signing, they say that any GM would have done that and apparently it's an overpay even though it was market value for him at the time.

I happen to think that Chia has done more bad than good and finishing bottom 10 two out of three seasons with the best player on the planet, regardless of how young he is, is inexcusable but it's a problem on this board when posters can't mention any positive he's done without being labelled a Chia fan boy. You shouldn't have to walk on egg shells on your own team board when you have a valid opinion that differs from the consensus.
The reason Talbot isnt used is because Negotiations were started under Mac T. I firmly believe If Mac T stays with the team we still have Talbot.

Maroon doesnt get credit because his other mistakes were so great he couldnt afford to keep his one good trade.

Sekera im not as down on as most but its not like he gave us a discount. Again if Mac T remains as GM i dont think its crazy to think he could sign Sekera.

Draft Mcdavid. Again Mac T would have done it.

Hall Larsson has been debated to death. I personally think it was overpay.

He isn't given a pass for Reinhart because GM should have the stones to say no if he thinks its a bad deal/doesn't trust the old scouts. Plus wasn't he on the job for like 2 months by then so you would assume prepping for the draft would be part of his job?

Russel was a very solid pick up that solidified our d. Then he screwed it up with a 4 year overpay and a NMC to boot.

Drai, Klefbom, Nurse etc were all aquired before him.

So you may say group think, walking on egg shells etc. I counter with what good moves has he made? Because any I can see (Russel, Maroon) his mismanagement has negated them.

Maybe to the people you are debating with it isnt a valid opinion? That would explain if people are being rude or what not. Try to convince them and if you cant look at their reasoning and maybe it will change your mind? Maybe its how you present your opinion on Chia? The way its written or tone?

To be honest this thread doesnt seem too bad to me compared to others I've seen on HF. Having said that since Nichols announced Chia is safe I haven't been checking it out so maybe it has become toxic, only read the last page
 
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Jamin

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The majority of that is our top 3 dmen being hurt or recovering from an injury
So we knew Sekera was hurt. Doctor season end examination would have showed Klefs shoulder had issues. The year before we were incredibly healthy.

So yea losing 3 dman was obvious to a lot of people. As was argued all summer on here when people were wondering why the only move was re-upping Gryba and nothing.

Then there was the inevitable fall back to earth. No way all of Larsson, Klefbom, Nurse continue to develop in a straight line. NHL doesnt work like that.

Sophomore slumps are pretty common but with Benning the team was caught off guard.

Its the same story with the forwards.

Last summer should have been one of the most important in team history. We have Mcdavid and went game 7 of second round. Finally something to sell to UFAs/GMs. Maybe get a couple UFAs on cheap 1 or 2 year deals and make a good trade while our players value has never been higher.

Instead buys out Pouliot for no reason. Trades Eberle for no reason (I dont believe Drai gets offer sheeted more than the 8.5 he got).

After a season in which everyone minus RNH and Eberle have career years the plan was to not only have the players match those career years but also better them. While staying fully healthy and making up for the loss of Sekera.

Crazy to think it didnt work out...
 

CantHaveTkachev

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The reason Talbot isnt used is because Negotiations were started under Mac T. I firmly believe If Mac T stays with the team we still have Talbot.

He isn't given a pass for Reinhart because GM should have the stones to say no if he thinks its a bad deal/doesn't trust the old scouts. Plus wasn't he on the job for like 2 months by then so you would assume prepping for the draft would be part of his job?
and if MacT stays GM I firmly believe the Reinhart deal gets done too

MacT hired Bob Green, Reinhart's former GM with the Oil Kings
there were rumblings that the Oilers thinking of moving down to take Reinhart in 2012

Bob McKenzie was on my television a minute ago and told me it’s down to Nail Yakupov, Ryan Murray at #1 and if they trade down the Oilers would be just fine with Griffin Reinhart
All spring, we’ve heard rumors and whispers about Ryan Murray and then later Griffin Reinhart. It may come to nothing; Oilers could draft Yakupov #1 overall and we’ll never know.
Lowetide.ca | D DAY MINUS ONE
Lowetide.ca | DRAFT 2012 DAY ONE: ALL WILL BE REVEALED

let's not forget how much this organization loves drafting Oil Kings players

there's a list of evidence of how much they LOVED Griffin
 

McGoMcD

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and if MacT stays GM I firmly believe the Reinhart deal gets done too

MacT hired Bob Green, Reinhart's former GM with the Oil Kings
there were rumblings that the Oilers thinking of moving down to take Reinhart in 2012



Lowetide.ca | D DAY MINUS ONE
Lowetide.ca | DRAFT 2012 DAY ONE: ALL WILL BE REVEALED

let's not forget how much this organization loves drafting Oil Kings players

there's a list of evidence of how much they LOVED Griffin

I don't see much point of arguing about what Mac T would have or wouldn't do. Nicholson was suppose to hire some one new. Every knows Mac T dint' do a good job and was going out. The problem is Nicholson replaced him with some one worse (his good buddy Chia). So we should compare Chia to the GM that should have got the job, not Mac T. I don't see much point is arguing about Mac T at all.
 
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CupofOil

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The reason Talbot isnt used is because Negotiations were started under Mac T. I firmly believe If Mac T stays with the team we still have Talbot.

Maroon doesnt get credit because his other mistakes were so great he couldnt afford to keep his one good trade.

Sekera im not as down on as most but its not like he gave us a discount. Again if Mac T remains as GM i dont think its crazy to think he could sign Sekera.

Draft Mcdavid. Again Mac T would have done it.

Hall Larsson has been debated to death. I personally think it was overpay.

He isn't given a pass for Reinhart because GM should have the stones to say no if he thinks its a bad deal/doesn't trust the old scouts. Plus wasn't he on the job for like 2 months by then so you would assume prepping for the draft would be part of his job?

Russel was a very solid pick up that solidified our d. Then he screwed it up with a 4 year overpay and a NMC to boot.

Drai, Klefbom, Nurse etc were all aquired before him.

So you may say group think, walking on egg shells etc. I counter with what good moves has he made? Because any I can see (Russel, Maroon) his mismanagement has negated them.

Maybe to the people you are debating with it isnt a valid opinion? That would explain if people are being rude or what not. Try to convince them and if you cant look at their reasoning and maybe it will change your mind? Maybe its how you present your opinion on Chia? The way its written or tone?

To be honest this thread doesnt seem too bad to me compared to others I've seen on HF. Having said that since Nichols announced Chia is safe I haven't been checking it out so maybe it has become toxic, only read the last page

There's no guarantee that MacT would have closed the deal for Talbot and at that price. Any GM can negotiate, not all can close.

Of course he should get credit for Maroon, he played a key part in getting them to the playoffs and beyond so based on that alone, the deal was a success. It was the right thing to do to trade him when they did, it was either that or overpay him with term which people would complain about anyway.

UFA's don't ever give discounts unless it's re-signing with their previous team or going to a Cup contender. The Oilers were neither of those for Sekera. 5.5M was actually pretty solid for him, pretty much perfect value for a UFA of that stature, maybe a year too long on the term.

Hall for Larsson was an overpay, there's no debating that. The question is if you think the bigger need Larsson filled was worth it. That remains to be seen but yeah, it was an obvious overpay.

I didn't give him a pass for the Reinhart deal. I do believe that the OBC pushed it on him because they had a woody for Reinhart for years but he had the power to not make the ridiculously stupid trade so that's on him.

Agreed completely on Russell. The 1 year deal was very good then he followed it up with a blunder with that ridiculous 4 year contract and even more ridiculous NMC.

I agree with some of what you're saying but you kind of proved my point with all the asterisks you put on his good moves (the Talbot, Maroon and Sekera ones). At least you were honest with your counterpoint and didn't call me a Chia fan boy so thanks for the honest debate without the name calling.
 

CantHaveTkachev

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I don't see much point of arguing about what Mac T would have or wouldn't do. Nicholson was suppose to hire some one new. Every knows Mac T dint' do a good job and was going out. The problem is Nicholson replaced him with some one worse (his good buddy Chia). So we should compare Chia to the GM that should have got the job, not Mac T. I don't see much point is arguing about Mac T at all.
you missed the point

people are giving credit for MacT getting Talbot, because it "gonna happen anyway"...then they better give him credit for fawning over Griff

because that was going to happen anyways too
 

McGoMcD

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you missed the point

people are giving credit for MacT getting Talbot, because it "gonna happen anyway"...then they better give him credit for fawning over Griff

because that was going to happen anyways too

Ok, fair enough. I guess the big point is we should say a good GM that should have been hired was going to get Talbot, or some goalie any way. Not really what Mac T would or wouldn't have done. but sure, I get your point.
 

nabob

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With an in prime McD and Draisaitl in tow, yes. That expectation should be a minimum especially after failing to reach the playoffs 2/3 times while gifted with the best player on the planet. Chia inherited huge assets in addition to these in a lineup that just needed some time. But he trades the best players we had for middling return.

What were your expectations in McDavid's rookie season with him being out for half the year?
 
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