#FIRECHIA

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Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Classic Chia, allowing the oilers to throw away a fourth rounder for a fifth rounder for absolutely no reason. It’s like his motto is: “draft picks are worthless”. Would help explain all his trades...

Worst asset manager in the NHL ... it's not even close. He is bordering on Mike Milbury levels.

It's incredible really that he's able to construct a team that sucks with a 100 point McDavid on it.
 
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harpoon

Registered User
Dec 23, 2005
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People use propaganda because it works.
If the Oilers spent as much time constructing a good team as they did on propaganda they might actually be decent.
I mean that's what it has to be at this point, right? I can't think of another explanation.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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If you add a 100-point McDavid + 75-point Draisaitl on the 2013 Oilers they make the playoffs.

Does that make Tambellini a genius?

If you add McDavid + Draisaitl on any of Kevin Lowe's Oiler teams (teams where he actually was the GM) they make the playoffs every year.

Is Kevin Lowe a genius?

Just because you make the playoffs once doesn't mean your GM knows what he's doing. You should examine their team building philosophy (does it make sense for the era you have to compete in or is is outdated thinking?), asset management (is the GM able to win trades? Does he bring home more than he sends out?), cap management (does he negotiate good value contracts with good term?).
 
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Trafalgar Sadge Law

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
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If we're going to talk about McDavid carryjobs, then that will never stop. He carries his team like any superstar does. Hockey is a team sport. No one can truly carry a team. Not even generational talents. We got into the playoffs because of the great moves he made: adding Sekera, Maroon, Talbot, and Russell. And yes, Lucic helped too, even if that was a bad contract from day 1. And yes, without the Larsson trade we don't make the playoffs either.

Also, it is ridiculous to think that Sather gifted us Talbot. I don't care what he said. I remember that day. Sather was looking to get a 1st round pick from someone during the draft but no one was biting. Our offer was the best offer, end of story. If Sather wanted to gift us Talbot, he would have done it before the draft, not during it.
No nobody can truly carry a team, that's why our team sucks right now. Maroon, Sekera, and Talbot are good adds, but the amount of harmful moves he's made far overshadow that. You can't just say "without the Larsson trade we don't make the playoffs" because we've never seen Taylor Hall play a full season here with a player as talented as McDavid and actual stable goaltending. In fact, the way Hall has been playing in New Jersey this season, almost single handedly dragging them to the playoffs, tells me he absolutely could've contributed to a playoff berth. Milan Lucic wasn't a bad player last season, but the contract was awful from day 1. Players who have trouble skating to begin with don't age well, yet Chia handed Lucic a 7 year deal. Kris Russell just sucks at hockey in general, some of the worst advanced stats in the entire NHL and bleeds chances against like no other defenseman. Traditional stats back up the notion that he's terrible defensively too: ie. he's consistently the NHL's leader in blocked shots despite not being overloaded with PK time, which is indicative of a player who gets hemmed into the defensive zone too often, and the eye-test and possession stats both confirm this.

And it's ridiculous to think Sather gifted us Talbot? Best offer my a**hole. Glen Sather straight up said to Principe that he did the deal as a favour to his former team, and the Oilers at no point refuted this claim. He turned down at least 2 offers better than what the Oilers gave, one involving 2 2nd round picks, and one involving Tallon. You're literally going against all media reports to defend your hero Chiarelli.
Rangers Turn Down 2nd Round Picks for Cam Talbot
Florida Panthers unable to land goalie they wanted in trade, bring in two during second day of NHL Draft

Sather gifted Talbot to us because he was initially trying to fleece another team, looking for a 1st round pick+. When he didn't get that, he chose the Oilers' lower offer among the mediocre offers out there.
 
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Trafalgar Sadge Law

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Nov 8, 2007
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And then the plan was to trade from depth to help a weakness. See Nashville as an example. Chia changed the plan.

Instead we flushed a decades worth of assets away and still have a bad d core just a worse cap situation then before.

If someone would have made a trade thread pre Chia offering Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Schultz, 2015 1st, 2015 2nd for Larsson, Strome and a couple 3rd/4th rounders everyone would have been trolling that thread. Instead that's actually what happened.
Chiarelli did attempt to trade from depth to help a weakness. Unfortunately he is the worst negotiating GM in the NHL and has terrible player evaluation skills. So instead of a top pairing dman and two way forwards, we ended up with good but not great players like Adam Larsson, trash like Ryan Strome, and non-NHLers like Griffin Reinhart for our premium assets.
 
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Trafalgar Sadge Law

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
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Classic Chia, allowing the oilers to throw away a fourth rounder for a fifth rounder for absolutely no reason. It’s like his motto is: “draft picks are worthless”. Would help explain all his trades...
No he clearly values draft picks! For example, he got us back "the Devils' third round pick THIS year" for Patrick Maroon, despite literally just finalizing the trade for New Jersey's 2019 3rd a few hours beforehand. He cares about them so much he doesn't even know which ones he owns.
 

Digger12

Gold Fever
Feb 27, 2002
18,313
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Back o' beyond
And it's ridiculous to think Sather gifted us Talbot? Best offer my a**hole. Glen Sather straight up said to Principe that he did the deal as a favour to his former team, and the Oilers at no point refuted this claim. He turned down at least 2 offers better than what the Oilers gave, one involving 2 2nd round picks, and one involving Tallon. You're literally going against all media reports to defend your hero Chiarelli.
Rangers Turn Down 2nd Round Picks for Cam Talbot
Florida Panthers unable to land goalie they wanted in trade, bring in two during second day of NHL Draft

Neither of those links are all that convincing. The first one was based off a Darren Dreger rumour, who IMO is an idiot who can't be trusted on anything that happens outside of the GTA. Also, even if it was a valid offer he states it happened prior to the draft. It's plausible to think that Sather screwed up and tried to wait for a better offer come draft day, but then that offer never came and likely that initial offer of 2 2nd rounder from whichever mystery team offered it was no longer on the table, so Sather was left scrambling and took the best offer he could before he got left holding the bag.

The 2nd link says that Florida's offer was rumoured to be 2 3rds and a 5th, which IMO is slightly inferior to the 2nd/3rd/7th the Oilers came up with. 2nd round picks on draft day tend to have a fair bit more value than a 3rd rounder.

And as for Sather spouting off that he "did the Oilers a favour", well who knows. Throughout his career he's never met a microphone he didn't like, and was never averse to stretching the truth if it helped put him in a positive light. He'll go down as one of the most decorated NHL GMs ever, but he's always been a big mouth and a bit of a jerk. I certainly would never take his word as gospel.
 

PatrikOverAuston

Laine > Matthews
Jun 22, 2016
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And as for Sather spouting off that he "did the Oilers a favour", well who knows. Throughout his career he's never met a microphone he didn't like, and was never averse to stretching the truth if it helped put him in a positive light.

When your narrative relies on not believing the actual words to come out of a GM's mouth, it's a badly flawed narrative.
 
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Digger12

Gold Fever
Feb 27, 2002
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Back o' beyond
When your narrative relies on not believing the actual words to come out of a GM's mouth, it's a badly flawed narrative.

When Sather is the GM, you're damn right I'm not going to take his word as gospel.

Feel free to trust it since it fits YOUR narrative, but after listening to Sather spout off for over 30 years I don't think my point is without merit.
 
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Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
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And it's ridiculous to think Sather gifted us Talbot? Best offer my a**hole. Glen Sather straight up said to Principe that he did the deal as a favour to his former team, and the Oilers at no point refuted this claim. He turned down at least 2 offers better than what the Oilers gave, one involving 2 2nd round picks, and one involving Tallon. You're literally going against all media reports to defend your hero Chiarelli.
Rangers Turn Down 2nd Round Picks for Cam Talbot
Florida Panthers unable to land goalie they wanted in trade, bring in two during second day of NHL Draft

Sather gifted Talbot to us because he was initially trying to fleece another team, looking for a 1st round pick+. When he didn't get that, he chose the Oilers' lower offer among the mediocre offers out there.
That evidence you posted has some flaw. For that first one, it was ahead of the draft that those two 2nds were rejected, so it is reasonable to assume that he turned those down because he was still hunting for a 1st. And who knows, maybe that rejected offer of two 2nds was from the Oilers considered at that point we did have two of them. It's very possible considering what the deal eventually became.

I also read that Florida one, and the rumored offer was very close to ours, but ours had a 2nd rounder in it and their's didn't, and to me that makes our's better. Also, it is extremely common that when you are trading a player, you prefer to send them out of the conference.

And I will continue to say that just because Sather said it was a favour, doesn't mean it is. He could say that for lots of reasons, like maybe to make himself look a little better for not getting the return he exactly wanted, and maybe just because it is an appealing sentiment. Why not play up your connection to the team that you are trading with? As for the Oilers not refuting the claim, that's just silly. They're not going to get in some no-stakes public disagreement over a throw-away comment.

And at the end of the day, a GM is responsible for what happens to their team. That's for good and bad. There's no need to diminish the good that Chiarelli's done just to make a point. Chiarelli's made plenty of bad moves to pick from, and the failure of this season has put plenty of egg on his face.
 

Trafalgar Sadge Law

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
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Neither of those links are all that convincing. The first one was based off a Darren Dreger rumour, who IMO is an idiot who can't be trusted on anything that happens outside of the GTA. Also, even if it was a valid offer he states it happened prior to the draft. It's plausible to think that Sather screwed up and tried to wait for a better offer come draft day, but then that offer never came and likely that initial offer of 2 2nd rounder from whichever mystery team offered it was no longer on the table, so Sather was left scrambling and took the best offer he could before he got left holding the bag.

The 2nd link says that Florida's offer was rumoured to be 2 3rds and a 5th, which IMO is slightly inferior to the 2nd/3rd/7th the Oilers came up with. 2nd round picks on draft day tend to have a fair bit more value than a 3rd rounder.

And as for Sather spouting off that he "did the Oilers a favour", well who knows. Throughout his career he's never met a microphone he didn't like, and was never averse to stretching the truth if it helped put him in a positive light. He'll go down as one of the most decorated NHL GMs ever, but he's always been a big mouth and a bit of a jerk. I certainly would never take his word as gospel.
When Sather is the GM, you're damn right I'm not going to take his word as gospel.

Feel free to trust it since it fits YOUR narrative, but after listening to Sather spout off for over 30 years I don't think my point is without merit.
I don't like Darren Dreger either, but he has more sources than you and me. As for the Florida trade, you conveniently ignored that Florida included Jimmy Hayes in their offer, who while a meme now, was considered a solid player at the time, coming off a 19 goal campaign at age 25, and returning Reilly Smith in a later trade. In any case, you were making legitimate points until you started spouting off about Glen Sather being some liar. So would you'd label Glen Sather, the greatest executive to ever work for this franchise, a liar, but trust the word of Peter Chiarelli, the worst executive to ever work for this franchise? If you don't like Sather, that's fine, but to claim he's "stretching the truth" when not a single reputable source has contradicted his statement otherwise? At least come up with some examples of Sather lying before making this post.
 
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PatrikOverAuston

Laine > Matthews
Jun 22, 2016
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Winnipeg
Feel free to trust it since it fits YOUR narrative, but after listening to Sather spout off for over 30 years I don't think my point is without merit.

Yes, I will trust it, since there's no actual reason to discount it.

It would appear the PCFC has a small problem- reality is biased against Peter Chiarelli.
 

McFlash97

Registered User
Oct 10, 2017
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I think it's safe to say. Chiarelli is the worst GM in Oiler history. Put McDavid and Draisaitl on any one of the Oiler teams in the last 10 years, they are in the playoffs. This Oiler team is a 28 point team without those 2.
 

King1s

Registered User
Jan 27, 2015
2,506
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Edmonton
So which team are you guys bandwagoning untill this f***ing clown gets the boot? I am rooting for the Jets this season, just because of Laine. Panthers were my second option because of Barkov but I just can't like that team.
 

FunkyChicken

Registered User
Jul 24, 2003
2,352
750
Of course NJ wouldn't trade Hall for NJ. They are winning games, and they replaced Larsson's spot with Vatanen. At this time last year, the answer would have been very different. Next season it could swing back the other way. In the end, Larsson is a top end shut down D so even if we lost value there, at the very least he is an important part of the core, and nowhere near the truly horrible trades out there, like Gomez for McDonagh, or even the Reinhart trade Chia did.

As for that last bit, of course any team with McDavid is NOT guaranteed anything, and even a few nagging problems can sink the team. Funny how Tampa had a couple key injuries last season and missed the playoffs, and now they are one of the very best. But by your logic, that is an epic fail because any team with Kucherov and Hedman playing full seasons should be making the playoffs. A few injuries should have not been any excuse.

At no time after the trade has Larsson's value exceeded Hall's. At best, it was looked at as a necessary evil to fill a hole.

I like how you use Tampa for the example as they missed the playoffs by one point. They had 94 points on a off year after several key injuries, still a competitive team. Still that is a failure and the GM should be under review. So, looking at Yzerman's history you don't see a history of losing big trades. The Kucherov signing was a steal. The prospects are very good.
Where are the Oilers projected to finish? Mid 70s? That is not competitive. Looking at Chia's history you see a history of losing big trades. Overpaying players. The prospects are poor.
The two teams are not comparable.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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What has Chia actually done to improve the team?

If the "solution" was to massively overpay for Adam Larsson, so what? Craig MacTavish could've made that trade too. Any idiot could do that.

You think New Jersey says no? If that was the franchise path, to panic and massively overpay and give away your 2nd best player for a no.3 role playing no offence D ... you may as well keep Mac T as GM.

He could do that too if ordered to do so.
 
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CantHaveTkachev

Legends
Nov 30, 2004
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At no time after the trade has Larsson's value exceeded Hall's. At best, it was looked at as a necessary evil to fill a hole.

I like how you use Tampa for the example as they missed the playoffs by one point. They had 94 points on a off year after several key injuries, still a competitive team. Still that is a failure and the GM should be under review. So, looking at Yzerman's history you don't see a history of losing big trades. The Kucherov signing was a steal. The prospects are very good.
Where are the Oilers projected to finish? Mid 70s? That is not competitive. Looking at Chia's history you see a history of losing big trades. Overpaying players. The prospects are poor.
The two teams are not comparable.
maybe not...but last year at this time Oilers fans thought we won the trade in a poll:

Is it crazy to think the Edmonton Oilers won the Adam Larsson-Taylor Hall trade? Probably not
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
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At no time after the trade has Larsson's value exceeded Hall's. At best, it was looked at as a necessary evil to fill a hole.

I like how you use Tampa for the example as they missed the playoffs by one point. They had 94 points on a off year after several key injuries, still a competitive team. Still that is a failure and the GM should be under review. So, looking at Yzerman's history you don't see a history of losing big trades. The Kucherov signing was a steal. The prospects are very good.
Where are the Oilers projected to finish? Mid 70s? That is not competitive. Looking at Chia's history you see a history of losing big trades. Overpaying players. The prospects are poor.
The two teams are not comparable.
At no time after the trade has Larsson's value exceeded Hall's. At best, it was looked at as a necessary evil to fill a hole.

I like how you use Tampa for the example as they missed the playoffs by one point. They had 94 points on a off year after several key injuries, still a competitive team. Still that is a failure and the GM should be under review. So, looking at Yzerman's history you don't see a history of losing big trades. The Kucherov signing was a steal. The prospects are very good.
Where are the Oilers projected to finish? Mid 70s? That is not competitive. Looking at Chia's history you see a history of losing big trades. Overpaying players. The prospects are poor.
The two teams are not comparable.
That is true that the Larsson trade was all about a necessary evil and that it was never about value, and although hypothetically we could have made the playoffs without it, ownership and the fanbase demanded that our defense be upgraded that offseason and the fans would have rioted if their GM preached patience. Chia had no leverage. No Dmen were for sale except maybe Hamonic.

The point of Tampa wasn't to compare them to the Oilers like they are the same. It was to point out that parity in this league will hit anyone, even someone everyone agrees is in better shape than the Oilers are. A few key injuries or a bad distraction, or any other handicap, and your season is done. That's the new NHL. It gives me hope that this season doesn't have to be what our team is all about.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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That is true that the Larsson trade was all about a necessary evil and that it was never about value, and although hypothetically we could have made the playoffs without it, ownership and the fanbase demanded that our defense be upgraded that offseason and the fans would have rioted if their GM preached patience. Chia had no leverage. No Dmen were for sale except maybe Hamonic.

The point of Tampa wasn't to compare them to the Oilers like they are the same. It was to point out that parity in this league will hit anyone, even someone everyone agrees is in better shape than the Oilers are. A few key injuries or a bad distraction, or any other handicap, and your season is done. That's the new NHL. It gives me hope that this season doesn't have to be what our team is all about.

No one would've done anything. Edmonton was still basking in the McDavid honeymoon, we had only seen him play for 45 games at that point.

Everyone knew Klefbom missed 50+ games too, him coming back alone would've improved the D massively, and you could have signed Demers and Russell.

That's three reasonable NHL caliber D adds to your blue line in one summer.

Chia simply does not value talent. He's traded away Seguin, Hall, Wheeler, Kessel all willingly without much fuss, that's 4 of the top 20 scorers in the NHL this season, he decided they weren't worth keeping around.

Chiarelli does not value skill. He wants grinders/heavy players/slow players. That's his team philosophy.
 
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