Fire Hakstol

[deadhead]

Couts was also the #8 pick in the draft, one reason you get picked so high is the perception that you're close to being NHL ready.
The difference between Provorov (#7) and Sanheim (#17).

Flyers have been a bit snakebit this year, MV and Vorobyev get dinged just as they're starting to make a move, Morin gets dinged when they could give him a 2-3 week tryout, and so on. NAK and Lindblom have been coming on, but both have yet to raise their game to the ponit where Ron can look at them and say, "yep, they're wasting their time in the AHL."

But this could all change drastically in a couple months, I think any of these guys who has a hot six week stretch where they show that they've elevated their game a notch is a viable candidate for a promotion this winter.

 

[Striiker]

They 100% do develop in the nhl but maybe not optimally. Depends alot on their position and physical and emotional maturity. Sometimes it's a really hard call and I think it's better to err on the conservative side and let them dominate all lower levels first.

Like I said, I'm not advocating rushing prospects.

Don't want to bring up Lindblom yet? Fine. Someone like Martel could play here right now and replace Weise, easily.

Is he perfect? No. Is he going to fix the team? No. Will he save the season? No. Does he add more to the team than Weise? Yep.

Weise adds exactly nothing, so even if Martel does nothing but skate fast, he's still an improvement.

 

[Magua]

The issue with Couturier was stagnating his growth IN THE NHL. It wasn't playing in the NHL.

 

[deadhead]

Like I said, I'm not advocating rushing prospects.

Don't want to bring up Lindblom yet? Fine. Someone like Martel could play here right now and replace Weise, easily.

Is he perfect? No. Is he going to fix the team? No. Will he save the season? No. Does he add more to the team than Weise? Yep.

Weise adds exactly nothing, so even if Martel does nothing but skate fast, he's still an improvement.

I'd disagree, Martel skates fast but showed he's a serious liability in the D-zone
In fact, he's the flip side of Weise.
Weise is big enough to fight for the puck but too slow and limited to do much with it.
Martel is fast and skilled enough to do something with the puck, but can't handle contact and is easily stripped of the puck.

Neither is the answer to anything, though if Martel can add strength the way Weal did, he may have a future.

I'm just waiting for Lindblom to put together that stretch of games that says he's ready.
My suspicion is that a few of these AHL players are on the verge of doing just that.

 

[NYCFlyer]

I'd disagree, Martel skates fast but showed he's a serious liability in the D-zone
In fact, he's the flip side of Weise.
Weise is big enough to fight for the puck but too slow and limited to do much with it.
Martel is fast and skilled enough to do something with the puck, but can't handle contact and is easily stripped of the puck.

Neither is the answer to anything, though if Martel can add strength the way Weal did, he may have a future.

I'm just waiting for Lindblom to put together that stretch of games that says he's ready.
My suspicion is that a few of these AHL players are on the verge of doing just that.

It's true Martel totally gets ragdolled. I'd still rather watch him than weise.

 

[Striiker]

I'd disagree, Martel skates fast but showed he's a serious liability in the D-zone
In fact, he's the flip side of Weise.
Weise is big enough to fight for the puck but too slow and limited to do much with it.
Martel is fast and skilled enough to do something with the puck, but can't handle contact and is easily stripped of the puck.

Neither is the answer to anything, though if Martel can add strength the way Weal did, he may have a future.

I'm just waiting for Lindblom to put together that stretch of games that says he's ready.
My suspicion is that a few of these AHL players are on the verge of doing just that.

Weise is just as much of a liability everywhere. His only advantage over Martel is size, but Martel still plays tougher than Dale "Softer Than Infant Diarrhea" Weise. Having size is meaningless if you do nothing with it.

 

[deadhead]

Twiddledee and twiddledom.
This is like VdV and Luby last year, where are they now?

Come up with some alternatives that would make a difference!

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Martel is much more fun to watch than Weise.

Faster. More skilled. Feistier.

I didn't see enough of him to tell if he was a defensive liability. That is hard to do on TV in only two games with limited minutes.

I didn't notice anything egregious. He got tossed around in a few scrums, but who cares? He was right in them.

I'd prefer him to Weise, with the caveat I don't have a good read on his D at the NHL level yet.

 

[Magua]

Twiddledee and twiddledom.
This is like VdV and Luby last year, where are they now?

Come up with some alternatives that would make a difference!

To think it was only a few short months ago someone was ardently supporting Weise in a top 6 role with Couturier.

Now he is just another Luby! How quickly things change!

 

[Striiker]

Oh yeah, I forgot... if the roster move doesn't completely fix the team then there's no point in making it.

Forget making multiple small changes that all add up to an improved roster. If it isn't subbing Lehtera for McDavid it's not even worth it. It's not like Hakstols job is to do the best he can with what he's got, right? If he isn't given a contender roster then he shouldn't even try to win games.

"Hakstol has no choice guys!" then becomes "He does have a choice, but it doesn't fix all our problems so I don't care if he does it...." and then within minutes we go back to "Hakstol has no choice guys!"...

 

[deadhead]

To think it was only a few short months ago someone was ardently supporting Weise in a top 6 role with Couturier.

Now he is just another Luby! How quickly things change!

I supported giving him a full trial based on how he finished last season.
Given that the AHL prospects weren't ready, the alternatives were Read and Lehtera.
Cousins, Leier and Weal got their shots last year, only Weal won a job.

A scrub is a scrub is a scrub.
The shame was that Read went south so fast, he could have bought time.
But the rest, meh.
Even though Leier is better this year, he's still no more than an undersized 4th line forechecker.

Just have to wait for the real talent to show up, when Leier/NAK fight for one spot, and Lindblom/Weal for another, and MV pushes out Weise and Lehtera, and finally Vorobyev replaces Filppula next year. And after that the real fun begins.

 

[Curufinwe]

Weise would have been a much better signing if he had the ability to play short handed or on the power play.

He did both in Montreal, and I'm sure the expectation from Hextall was he'd contribute on PP2 in Philly. Obviously, that hasn't happened.

 

[flyersfan187]

He did both in Montreal, and I'm sure the expectation from Hextall was he'd contribute on PP2 in Philly. Obviously, that hasn't happened.

I had no idea he played short handed there. I wonder why he wasn't given a chance here because our pk has been terrible

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Weise had that PK shift against Nashville earlier in the year where he had that hilariously bad failed clearing attempt that resulted in a goal.

 

[deadhead]

I think Weise is following the same career trajectory as Read.
When you look at aging curve, those are averages, some players will age faster, some slower, given their base talent.

Normally, I think players like Read and Weise, your basic 3rd line, 20-30 point guys, tend to remain effective until they're around 30, some like Raffl, may last longer, some falter earlier in their careers.

Who predicted that Read would fall off so quickly when he was 27?
He started downhill at 28, finished at 30.
Weise was a solid winger at 26-27, even put up E +/- of 7.0 last year at 28.
Was a solid Corsi guy, not just lucky goals.
This year he fell off the cliff.

Hindsight is 20/20, Hextall probably felt he gave an extra year he could eat with the Weise deal, but expected to get 3 solid seasons (through age 30), not 1, from Weise. With Read slipping, and little cap room at the time, he needed a forward to buy time for his prospects to arrive.

 

[Magua]

I think Weise is following the same career trajectory as Read.

Read and Weise, your basic 3rd line, 20-30 point guys, tend to remain effective until they're around 30, some like Raffl, may last longer, some falter earlier in their careers.

Weise was a solid winger at 26-27, even put up E +/- of 7.0 last year at 28.
Was a solid Corsi guy, not just lucky goals.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Dude, what? You don't agree!?

 

[deadhead]

Weise
Corsi CorsiRel
2014-15 (26) 45.2% -4.1 xG -0.24/60
2015-16 (27) 52.6% 0.7 xG 0.14/60
2016-17 (28) 53.1% 2.9 xG -0.05/60
2017-18 (29) 42.6% -6.1 xG -0.98/60

 

[whitstifier]

When will the boring hockey end?!

 

[deadhead]

When better talent arrives.
Defensive hockey is boring until you have the talent to instantly flip the ice off a turnover in the neutral zone.

 

[Striiker]

When Hakstol is gone.

Talent doesn't matter if the coach buries it.

 

[deadhead]

And the next coach will run a similar scheme.
Because that's what Hextall wants.

 

[Striiker]

Complete guess.

 

[whitstifier]

I don't know what's worse: exciting hockey with frequent playoff appearances but little hope for SC contention, or boring hockey with few playoff appearances but a lot of promise for long term success.

I need some middle ground between risk-taking and conservative management.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I don't know what's worse: exciting hockey with frequent playoff appearances but little hope for SC contention, or boring hockey with few playoff appearances but a lot of promise for long term success.

I need some middle ground between risk-taking and conservative management.

nothing Hak is doing promises long term success.. unless success is measured as bottom of league and no POs season after season