Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Good point, those are two perfectly comparable players who are in identical situations. Pointing to Corsi tells the full story here.
Fire Hakstol
- Thread starter whitstifier
- Start date
- Status
Amorgus
Registered User
If nothing else I have to agree that if you're not talking to your players, you're not doing your job right. This isn't the first time that's been mentioned by a player.
JojoTheWhale
CORN BOY
- May 22, 2008
- 33,559
- 104,811
RE: Patrick
If people were arguing that he should be put with Voracek, I would understand saying it's people making excuses for him because he's not ready for that kind of usage at all. Most commonly, I see a request for Raffl, who was on the 4th line for most of the year. That's not unreasonable.
Serious question: Does anyone at all think that Hakstol is the only problem? I keep seeing that brought up, but I really don't believe it to be true. Or at least if there is anyone, I can't imagine it's pervasive.
Hextall brought in Hakstol to run this slop and he brought in Scott Gordon to do....whatever it is he does. He's complicit and so is everyone else who helps make these decisions. Yes, I know that's frightening.
It's more common than you would believe across the major sports and it consistently amazes me. It's inexcusable on every level. It's one of the things that frightens me most about their approach to player development.
If people were arguing that he should be put with Voracek, I would understand saying it's people making excuses for him because he's not ready for that kind of usage at all. Most commonly, I see a request for Raffl, who was on the 4th line for most of the year. That's not unreasonable.
Serious question: Does anyone at all think that Hakstol is the only problem? I keep seeing that brought up, but I really don't believe it to be true. Or at least if there is anyone, I can't imagine it's pervasive.
Hextall brought in Hakstol to run this slop and he brought in Scott Gordon to do....whatever it is he does. He's complicit and so is everyone else who helps make these decisions. Yes, I know that's frightening.
It's more common than you would believe across the major sports and it consistently amazes me. It's inexcusable on every level. It's one of the things that frightens me most about their approach to player development.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
I've never seen a single person even suggest that.
His defenders only pretend people are saying it so they can defend him from an imaginary unreasonable statement.
Easier to "win" an argument if you choose the argument your opposition is making and ignore their real ones.
Everyone knows it's mutiple things, and Hakstol is one of those things.
Why would you want that? Aren't they better off excelling and learning their craft at each level? Morin (lhd only ) is stuck behind Sanheim,ghost and provy. Where do you want to play him? I watched Myers and no way he's ready. Hagg played rhd (our weakest position) better than Sanheim and that's why he's on the big club.
No idea what point you are even trying to make. Be specific. Are you saying that because i think as of today they should wait until the end of the year to evaluate a change that I'm making an imaginary argument? Or are you saying the juvenile histrionics about firing him now because he didn't talk to Mattel when he was sent down?
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
JojoTheWhale
CORN BOY
- May 22, 2008
- 33,559
- 104,811
HOW DID JOHN TORTORELLA BECOME THE COACH OF MY DREAMS? WHAT PLANET IS THIS?
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
If the other team defecated at center ice and made snow angels, I'm pretty sure Hakstol would have his team do the same. We beat other teams at their own game!
Ghosts Beer
I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
- Feb 10, 2014
- 22,619
- 16,426
Because that's what I said?
Corsi never tells the full story. Weise wasn't the 4th best Flyer last season. The point is that people pick & choose when to use it.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
The most amount of praise Dale Weise got last year from people was that he wasn’t as bad as Bellemare & VandeVelde. Believe it or not people do actually apply context & reasoning behind the data.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Huh? What I wrote has nothing to do with you.
Jojo asked "Does anyone at all think that Hakstol is the only problem?", so I answered that I'd never seen anyone say that Hakstol was the only problem (he's part of the problem, not all of it) and that when people act like we're saying that (like Deadhead regularly does) it's just to make defending Hakstol easier.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
Not to mention people were always skeptical about Weise's possession stats. It went totally against years of data. The Flyers as a whole were a very empty Corsi team catering to the worst stereotypes, so we said he's doing well there, even if he's a shit scorer, but let's wait and see.
He's now back to his norm, even worse actually.
He's now back to his norm, even worse actually.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Did anyone ever say it tells the full story? It's just a piece of information that requires context.
The context changes it's value, which is why it makes more sense to use it to judge MacDonald than it does to judge Patrick.
JojoTheWhale
CORN BOY
- May 22, 2008
- 33,559
- 104,811
One way to define “worse” is returning to having a lower career PPG than Colin McDonald despite getting some PP time the last few years. There are others, but I think we’re all despressed enough.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
No, it makes more sense to use Corsi to judge Patrick, who should be a Corsi monster, the same way Couts has always been a Corsi monster, no matter who you put next to him.
Whereas MacDonald has a worse Corsi than SCF% or HDCF% because when he's playing well he's good at positioning and blocking shots, but not initiating offense.
Whereas MacDonald has a worse Corsi than SCF% or HDCF% because when he's playing well he's good at positioning and blocking shots, but not initiating offense.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
Coots has not always been a possession monster. That's something more of the 3 last seasons. He did play in super tough minutes with awful players to his left and right, but he struggled to break even, even if all things considered he did pretty well. But monster his first few seasons? No. He wasn't Tkachuk or something. Respectable? Hell yes.
Of course Patrick is not even in that ballpark right now in softer usage.
Of course Patrick is not even in that ballpark right now in softer usage.
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
cuz hes been the right coach for Philly since before Lavi needed to be gone... GRRRRR....
Sawdalite
SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
Personally, I detest Torts... I want him nowhere near this organization.
You want a potential firestorm situation in Philly?... Bring him in here and watch the sparks fly... The flyers and his type of coaching just do not mix.
JMO
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
A good coach who teaches progressive/aggressive hockey for the year 2017, is vocal and animated, and believes in focusing on themselves first?
Not saying he wouldn't piss us off too in ways, but good lord, sign me up for that. I'm at my wits end with this ventriloquist dummy unearthed from a time capsule. I'd ask someone -- Ron? -- to shove their hand up his ass to make him talk more, but there's a giant stick permanently wedged in there already.
Not saying he wouldn't piss us off too in ways, but good lord, sign me up for that. I'm at my wits end with this ventriloquist dummy unearthed from a time capsule. I'd ask someone -- Ron? -- to shove their hand up his ass to make him talk more, but there's a giant stick permanently wedged in there already.
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
i guess we just gunna have to agree to 100% disagree then
- Sep 28, 2014
- 76,639
- 123,148
I wasnt replying to an opinion. I was replying to a smug remark meant to illicit a reaction from people. You asked for it and you got it.
Ghosts Beer
I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
- Feb 10, 2014
- 22,619
- 16,426
I make a point about the board being anti-Hakstol, which it is, to the point of picking and choosing when to use Corsi numbers and when to ignore them to suit their agenda, and you call me "full of shit." Well, actually, it was a completely legitimate point; you just didn't like it, probably because it highlighted hypocrisy; and if you want to talk about smug, you should start with yourself.
Everyone knows you can't handle opinions that are different than your own. You're so caught up in your own brilliance that you can only assume, with me, that when my opinion differs from yours it must be because I'm being intentionally contrarian just to rile people up.
I said Weise was a terrible signing and that people were overrating the impact he and Gordon would have on the team. That was "being contrarian." (No, it was being correct.)
I said Filppula was a declining player and was against the trade for him. That was "being contrarian." (No, it was being correct.)
I said the Flyers were "thin" on offensive depth. That was "being contrarian." (No, it was being correct.)
I said I liked the idea of moving Giroux to wing and playing with Couturier. That was "being contrarian." (No, it was being correct.)
Instead of being unable to comprehend different thought processes than your own and turning things into personal attacks, maybe recognize that when a person expresses something you disagree with, they might be right.
And I think many on this board try to twist everything against Hakstol, which my point about reading AMac's Corsi numbers to bash Hakstol at the STH conference, but ignoring Patrick's putrid Corsi numbers to bash Hakstol for not playing him was meant to illustrate.
But I get it. You think everything Hakstol does is wrong and anyone who offers any kind of defense of any single thing he does is a moron who is "full of shit."
- Sep 28, 2014
- 76,639
- 123,148
Its sad that you keep a running tally on every opinion you think you've been right on. Im not going to address any of them since there has already been time dedicated to the topics when they were relevant.
I will address your comment I was replying to though..
Comparing MacDonalds Corsi to Patricks without any context as a way to insinuate members of the boards that are of the "Fire Hakstol" opinion are hypocrites is just bullshit. Thats all it is. No more or less. It also makes you look like a hypocrite yourself by "not respecting others opinion," which you just accused me of in that long self-righteous diatribe.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
He's also intentionally changing what he said so it sounds correct.
For example, he didn't say it was a team "thin on offensive depth" he said it was "very thin on skill", which is a big difference. It also isn't true. There's plenty of skill, it's just whether or not the skill is getting results and being used properly. It wasn't then and it still isn't. And also remember that this was back before Schenn was traded away.
He also didn't disagree specifically with Weise or Filppula, his disagreed with us needing to fill those roles. It's not like he said that both were going to severely underachieve the way they are now (even just compared to the low expectations we had for both), he argued against Hextall's intentions in making those additions before they played a single game here. And even continued after Filppula looked fine to end last season and did exactly what he was brought here to do (be the 3C and stop us from using guys like Schenn, Cousins, or Bellemare in that spot).
For example, he didn't say it was a team "thin on offensive depth" he said it was "very thin on skill", which is a big difference. It also isn't true. There's plenty of skill, it's just whether or not the skill is getting results and being used properly. It wasn't then and it still isn't. And also remember that this was back before Schenn was traded away.
He also didn't disagree specifically with Weise or Filppula, his disagreed with us needing to fill those roles. It's not like he said that both were going to severely underachieve the way they are now (even just compared to the low expectations we had for both), he argued against Hextall's intentions in making those additions before they played a single game here. And even continued after Filppula looked fine to end last season and did exactly what he was brought here to do (be the 3C and stop us from using guys like Schenn, Cousins, or Bellemare in that spot).
- Status
