Fire Hakstol

[deadhead]

There were no viable options at forward, even with Filppula playing the best he did all season (yes, experience does matter in the playoffs), moving Laughton to 3rd line LW meant Lehtera at center, with Lindblom MIA, there really wasn't a 2nd line LW, and so on. It was a game of "wack a mole," if you strengthened one line, you weakened another.

Yes, Laughton - Couts - Simmonds weren't matched against Crosby, and that was the point, if Giroux - Couts couldn't score, maybe Giroux - Filppula could slow down Crosby to some extent, while the Couts line provided some offense. Whatever lines Hak put together, Sullivan had the better answer, because he had better players - when Sullivan switched guys around on his top 9, he was moving better players around.

And a good goalie makes up for a multitude of coaching sins. And allows you to live with mistakes made by aggressive players.

 

[Striiker]

I didn't like taking Konecny away from Couturier and Giroux.

I understood the thought process -- the team is thin on scoring depth and the coach wanted each line to be a threat to score -- but I'd rather rely on my best players and let them play together as opposed to watering everything down.

Even if we give him a pass for the intention of the change, there's no excuse for not going back to what worked so well after the change proved to be a failure.

 

[Embiid]

Bump.....

Dakotis Davicus.....be gone. You have yet to evolve into a respectable NHL coach.

 

[Alex K]

Peds have been eliminated in the 2nd and they're not happy about it. Lavi's got one more year of contract just like Hak.

 

[Rebels57]

Lavy will be our next coach. It is written in the stars.

 

[Domino666]

Lavy will be our next coach. It is written in the stars.

Not dumb enough for Hexy

 

[FlyersMania2]

Just here to mention there is a thread on the Predators forum that inquires if the team should make a coaching change.

Sigh.

Just put that into perspective - having Lavy and wondering if there is a better coach out there vs having Hakstol and being us.

 

[Starat327]

Just here to mention there is a thread on the Predators forum that inquires if the team should make a coaching change.

Sigh.

Just put that into perspective - having Lavy and wondering if there is a better coach out there vs having Hakstol and being us.

I think hes a great coach, but he does seem to be stricken with Andy Reid syndrome. I'd take him back here in a heartbeat. I dont know if Nashvilles loss last night was his fault or not ( seems like he was unwilling to separate Forsberg from Johansesn, but Turris couldve used a spark), but I guess it's fair to question. Seems to me like they just had the unfortunate task of running into an extremely hot team and goalie.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Even if we give him a pass for the intention of the change, there's no excuse for not going back to what worked so well after the change proved to be a failure.

Beyond all that, Konecny was one of our three best (four, at worst) wingers and he was getting bottom six minutes in the playoffs. Like, far below 15 a game. That’s inexcusable, there isn’t an intention behind that that’s anything other than dumb as shit.

The only game he received more than 14:30 in was game six. He received 9 minutes and change in game two. f***ing 9 f***ing minutes.

 

[Garbage Goal]

You know, I'll start off by saying I'm not a Hak fan. I'm a staunch Hexy fan, but don't care for Hak at all.

I do have to say though: I understand the logic behind moving Konecny, while also not understanding it.

Once Konecny became a top scorer this year, I think Hak decided to utilize him in a role where he'd hopefully carry the line -- give him a chance to become a star away from G and Coots. This makes sense because it'd provide MUCH needed balance in the top 3 lines..IF it worked (which it didn't).

However of course, the obvious of "Why ruin a GREAT thing?!??" also weighs on me.

If it had worked, Hak would've been a genius. But it didn't, so he is an idiot.

This is one of those odd times where I can't blame Hak too much for the logic of the move despite the results blowing so hard. In a perfect world: he would've switched Konecny back after a few games of it not working.

Cest la vie. Hopefully he learns moving forward.

I call bullshit. If a player is regarded highly enough to carry a line by a coach he’s not going to get less than 13 minutes a night for three out of six games and less than 14:30 for five out of six. Maybe his thought process had to do with spreading out scoring, but he definitely doesn’t value Konecny as a catalyst on a line or anywhere nearly as highly as he should. He’s also dumb and heavily biased towards veterans.

This is all putting aside that our depth is trash, partially because of his choices in personnel and usage mind you, and that even fans know centers are far more important to carrying a line than wingers.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Filppula’s line is where everybody went to die this year. He was god awful this year & got pretty good usage.

 

[Embiid]

Lavy will be our next coach. It is written in the stars.

I don't think Lavi would want to come back. He left here on bad terms and seemed bitter since he never once addressed his firing with the media or the public. He punched his ticket and coke machine here...

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Just here to mention there is a thread on the Predators forum that inquires if the team should make a coaching change.

Sigh.

Just put that into perspective - having Lavy and wondering if there is a better coach out there vs having Hakstol and being us.

Just more of an already bevy of proof that all fanbases are rash when it comes to coaching. Remember, the majority of fans here wanted Lavy fired, too. The basic nature of coaching is to be a scapegoat. Cassidy was run out of Washington; DeBoer was run out of Florida; Trotz out of Nashville; Maurice out of a bunch of places; Sullivan out of Boston... and these are only guys who are having success right now elsewhere in the NHL. I'm sure Tampa will have fans clamoring for Cooper to be fired if they don't make the Cup final.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I don't think Lavi would want to come back. He left here on bad terms and seemed bitter since he never once addressed his firing with the media or the public. He punched his ticket and coke machine here...

Wow, I want to hear that story.

 

[Embiid]

That is what it is ...a story but yes not a fact. My sense of how things went down. I can't recall a coach for the Flyers being let go and not really giving their take on things or addressing the fans . I don't blame him though in some ways....

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I call bull****. If a player is regarded highly enough to carry a line by a coach he’s not going to get less than 13 minutes a night for three out of six games and less than 14:30 for five out of six. Maybe his thought process had to do with spreading out scoring, but he definitely doesn’t value Konecny as a catalyst on a line or anywhere nearly as highly as he should. He’s also dumb and heavily biased towards veterans.

This is all putting aside that our depth is trash, partially because of his choices in personnel and usage mind you, and that even fans know centers are far more important to carrying a line than wingers.

You can call "bull" all you want, but I disagree. I think him moving our hottest scorer in TK to the 3rd line was to create balance in the lineup and hopefully give TK a chance to shine. Unfortunately, it wasn't working and he was no longer our hottest scorer.

God forbid he try to not make our lineup top-heavy and create depth. What a horrible approach to coaching.

 

[Ruck Over]

Just more of an already bevy of proof that all fanbases are rash when it comes to coaching. Remember, the majority of fans here wanted Lavy fired, too. The basic nature of coaching is to be a scapegoat. Cassidy was run out of Washington; DeBoer was run out of Florida; Trotz out of Nashville; Maurice out of a bunch of places; Sullivan out of Boston... and these are only guys who are having success right now elsewhere in the NHL. I'm sure Tampa will have fans clamoring for Cooper to be fired if they don't make the Cup final.

I HOPE SO! Cooper would be an amazing hire for the Flyers if possible. Flyers can't hire him until he's no longer employed, GET ON IT TAMPA, SMOKE HIS ASS!

 

[Ruck Over]

You can call "bull" all you want, but I disagree. I think him moving our hottest scorer in TK to the 3rd line was to create balance in the lineup and hopefully give TK a chance to shine. Unfortunately, it wasn't working and he was no longer our hottest scorer.

God forbid he try to not make our lineup top-heavy and create depth. What a horrible approach to coaching.

So the move obviously didn't work in total. Didn't work in G1 obviously, G2 it kinda worked on a solo-effort rush from Flyers blue-line near break-away (not really a line effort, nor typically reproducible event).

At what point does the coach abandon his idea and go back to what was working for almost half a season?

It was a questionable idea to begin with, and a bad idea when over stated. Hakstol f***ed up.

Not to mention, the idea was essentially, "Put TK on an island and expect magic to happen." That's the same crap that was used to get production from Coots unsuccessfully since forever. This year, they put Coots with the best players he's skated with as a Flyer and he had a breakout year. Is that not proof positive of the rational, play good players with good players? TK (good) + Simmonds (middling) + Filppula (Bad) = bad.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

So the move obviously didn't work in total. Didn't work in G1 obviously, G2 it kinda worked on a solo-effort rush from Flyers blue-line near break-away (not really a line effort, nor typically reproducible event).

At what point does the coach abandon his idea and go back to what was working for almost half a season?

It was a questionable idea to begin with, and a bad idea when over stated. Hakstol ****ed up.

Not to mention, the idea was essentially, "Put TK on an island and expect magic to happen." That's the same crap that was used to get production from Coots unsuccessfully since forever. This year, they put Coots with the best players he's skated with as a Flyer and he had a breakout year. Is that not proof positive of the rational, play good players with good players? TK (good) + Simmonds (middling) + Filppula (Bad) = bad.

And that's where I totally agree. In my OP about this, I said "Hopefully Hakstol learns in the future" because I know that experiment failed. Again: I don't like Hak. I don't think he's why we lost, but I think that was a faulty strategy in the end.

Well TK wasn't exactly on an island. He was with Simmonds and Filp, which I don't think is fair to call that an island. Simmonds is much better than middling but he performed poorly. I'm assuming the hope was his play-style igniting Simmonds to better than he was performing. It's not an obscene strategy.

Again: Why fight over it though? I agree it failed and Hakstol should've change the lines back. There's nothing to debate any longer here.

 

[deadhead]

Hakstol should have told Hextall to get him Stastny at the TDL, and throw in Kane, and a better goalie than Mrazek.

 

[Ruck Over]

...
Again: Why fight over it though? I agree it failed and Hakstol should've change the lines back. There's nothing to debate any longer here.

The fight continues because this TK example is only but one of many self-inflicted screw-ups. The necessary retelling of all of them will hopefully present an unassailable reason why Hakstol is not the man for the job. Some coaches win in spite of their talent, some coaches have their talent win inspite of the coach, some coaches are so bad that a dearth or plethora of talent will not change the fact that they are losers. Hakstol is very likely in that last category.

 

[Ruck Over]

Hakstol should have told Hextall to get him Stastny at the TDL, and throw in Kane, and a better goalie than Mrazek.

That would've been too bold. But since you're apt to live in make-believe land, or at least venture closer to reality in that Hakstol and Hextall have obvious deficiencies, you should add to that shopping list another defenseman to replace AMac and/or Manning.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

The fight continues because this TK example is only but one of many self-inflicted screw-ups. The necessary retelling of all of them will hopefully present an unassailable reason why Hakstol is not the man for the job. Some coaches win in spite of their talent, some coaches have their talent win inspite of the coach, some coaches are so bad that a dearth or plethora of talent will not change the fact that they are losers. Hakstol is very likely in that last category.

I don't consider it a screw-up though -- I consider it experimenting with lines that unfortunately failed. I don't think he had the players to compete this year, so I don't jump down his throat. If he gets legitimate depth this year and is still not turning out results, we have a different conversation.

 

[Ruck Over]

I don't consider it a screw-up though -- I consider it experimenting with lines that unfortunately failed. I don't think he had the players to compete this year, so I don't jump down his throat. If he gets legitimate depth this year and is still not turning out results, we have a different conversation.

I did not think the Flyers had a snowball's chance in hell to get to the 2nd rd of the 2018 playoffs. However, self-inflicted wounds are always damning and will be highly scrutinized, regardless of situation.

Also, Hextall has repeatedly said there's enough talent on the team to compete, so the lack of depth is an issue between the coach and the GM. Although the GM has said he was happy with his coach. That experimenting is what should be done in the middle of the season, when the impact isn't as dire as "win or go home." Wrong time to tinker.

 

[deadhead]

If they had a real goalie, you could live with AMac/Manning, I saw a half dozen softies go by in that series.
If Kane - Stastny - Simmonds is your 3rd line, you have options as a coach, keep TK on the first line, have him replace Lindblom on the 2nd line when he struggles, etc.

When Lindblom went belly up, you have to juggle Filppula (who didn't play that badly in the playoffs) and Raffl in the top 9.
And when Patrick struggled a bit with matchups, there was no way to shelter him other than move up Filppula.

That's why I don't take that playoff too seriously, we were badly outnumbered, and our kids weren't ready for prime time (which is no knock, look at Nico and Bratt on NJ).

This is why you need depth and experience, take TB, while Point is getting big minutes at 21, Cerilli at 20 is playing 13 minutes and Sergachev (19) is averaging 12 minutes. Cooper has the luxury of working his kids into the lineup. Kucherov (24) and Miller (24) are in their 5th seasons.

In two years, the Flyers will be in a similar place, with young experienced veterans filling out the top 9 and top 6, and younger players getting limited PT as they show they're ready. In the playoffs, there's a big difference between a 20-21 year old rookie or 2nd year guy and a 22-24 year old "veteran" with a couple playoffs under his belt.