Fire Deboer

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Mattb124

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If most of the squad (Tierney just one example) didn't play the way they could then who's to blame? Gary Bettman?
Martin played limited, Engelland heavy minutes.
DeBoer didn't have to play Fehr. Goodrow was available yet hardly played.

Fleury wasn't a factor in this series. He was okayish but not that good. Saw lots of shots at times but hardly dangerous ones. Also let in a few weak ones. He was much better vs LA.

.935 save % in the series was not that good? Fleury was arguably THE difference in this series. Where do you come up with this stuff?
 

Hinterland

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Switch goaltenders in the series and the Sharks are the ones awaiting the winner of Nashville/Winnipeg series. Fleury was absolutely the xfactor

Absolutely not. He had a few timely saves, I'll give you that. Otherwise he wasn't even good. He even let in a few weak ones. I have nothing against Fleury and he was the difference against LA but he was okayish at best against the Sharks who mostly missed out on their chances by hitting post/crossbar or shooting wide/high/right at Fleury. Fleury had to make very few serious saves and still gave up several weak ones. No great goaltending really. He surely wasn't any better than Jones. Not in that particular season. He's not a playoff performer anyway despite winning two cups. Vegas knew he wouldn't always be able to save them like he did against the Kings. He didn't have to against a SJ pretty much beating itself.
 

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.935 save % in the series was not that good? Fleury was arguably THE difference in this series. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Just numbers. You watch the games and then tell me how many non-routine saves he had to make. You can probably count the average with one hand. Even on breakaways the Sharks were pretty much firing right at Fleury. Other than that lots of shots from the point without traffic in front or shots from bad angles. Sharks had 33 shots in game 1 but did they have lots of chances? These were pretty much all garbage shots. You won't get many easier shutouts in a league like the NHL.
 

Hinterland

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Isn't there a list of like 10 or more teams with Cup droughts a lot longer than the Sharks? The playoffs are like lotto, there are no guarantees and you can't win if you don't play. Teams are fairly even when you get to the 2nd round, the difference comes down to injuries and sometimes luck good and bad. I would rather have a team that makes the playoffs every year than follow some pipe dream of team building that relies on tanking and hitting home runs in drafting 17 year olds. As far as deboer, the grass isn't always greener. What he did this year with this team with no Marleau, Minimal Jumbo and Jones being hurt for a couple months was as good a job of coaching as I've seen considering the amount of youth this team played with. I'm curious to see what he can do with an improved and healthy roster next season.

I don't agree that teams are even. Winnipeg's 3rd line includes Little, Ehlers and Armia. They have Lowry as 4C who's an absolute beast and was shutting down toplines all season long while being +9. On his wing he has Tanev who has 4 Goals and 1 Assist already during this years playoffs. Nashville has a 4th line of Hartnell, Fisher and Jarnkrok and Tampa has a 3rd line of Killorn, Cirelli and Gourde while Vegas has a bottom six full of anchors. They have Tuch and Tatar (if they play him) but the rest is not even close from what other teams have. They also have the weakest defense of all remaining teams with a slow anchor like Engelland playing heavy minutes. Engelland played very reduced and sheltered minutes for Calgary and still got exposed badly. I get that Vegas forwards are much more responsible but still...a good team would skate circles around a guy like that. Washington is a bit deeper than Vegas but not much. There are clear differences in quality and I still fully expect Tampa to win the cup...like I did from the start. This long and exhausting series between the two other contenders only plays into their cards. Nashville and Winnipeg certainly got their chances and I wouldn't count them out but right now, the Bolts really must like their chances. Vegas or Washington winning a cup with their current rosters would shock me.
 

tiburon12

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Just numbers. You watch the games and then tell me how many non-routine saves he had to make. You can probably count the average with one hand. Even on breakaways the Sharks were pretty much firing right at Fleury. Other than that lots of shots from the point without traffic in front or shots from bad angles. Sharks had 33 shots in game 1 but did they have lots of chances? These were pretty much all garbage shots. You won't get many easier shutouts in a league like the NHL.
Ok, here's a specific play i mentioned earlier in direct response to you that you ignored: Game 3 OT save on Couture. That's series defining save. Cooch scores, sharks are up 2-1 with a game at home (which they won 4-0, but obviously not a guarantee that game outcome is the same).
 

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Ok, here's a specific play i mentioned earlier in direct response to you that you ignored: Game 3 OT save on Couture. That's series defining save. Cooch scores, sharks are up 2-1 with a game at home (which they won 4-0, but obviously not a guarantee that game outcome is the same).

I wrote myself at least once that Fleury made a few timely saves. That alone doesn't make him the series MVP. Overall he had some easy games with mostly routine saves and still gave up several weak goals. He was much better vs LA and he had to.
 

Pinkfloyd

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I don't know if switching the goalies would've changed the results any. Games 1 and 6 were easy goalie games for Vegas. Fleury will give up every goal that Jones gave up in game 3. The difference would've been game 5's third goal but the first two goals are goals Fleury has given up and that can definitely be argued as the difference. The 4th goal against is also one I've seen Fleury give up too but maybe it doesn't happen if the 3rd goal doesn't but the problem with game 5 is that the team in front of the goalie didn't show up until it was 4-0. It'd be hard for even Fleury as hot as he was to hold up against a team being outshot 28-17 after two periods.
 

Mattb124

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Just numbers. You watch the games and then tell me how many non-routine saves he had to make. You can probably count the average with one hand. Even on breakaways the Sharks were pretty much firing right at Fleury. Other than that lots of shots from the point without traffic in front or shots from bad angles. Sharks had 33 shots in game 1 but did they have lots of chances? These were pretty much all garbage shots. You won't get many easier shutouts in a league like the NHL.

I watched the games, Fleury was outstanding and made the saves he needed to make. You are the only one who thinks otherwise.

Edit: I just noted that PF joined you on you island, fitting.
 
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Pinkfloyd

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I watched the games, Fleury was outstanding and made the saves he needed to make. You are the only one who thinks otherwise.

Edit: I just noted that PF joined you on you island, fitting.

I watched the games too and Fleury was outstanding but that doesn't mean that he faced the same situations, the same shots, and the same scoring opportunities. More often than not in the games that the Sharks lost, Vegas was better when it was close. Fleury would've only held up so much. Better than Jones, sure. Enough to change any particular game? I don't think so.
 

Herschel

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I don't know if switching the goalies would've changed the results any. Games 1 and 6 were easy goalie games for Vegas. Fleury will give up every goal that Jones gave up in game 3. The difference would've been game 5's third goal but the first two goals are goals Fleury has given up and that can definitely be argued as the difference. The 4th goal against is also one I've seen Fleury give up too but maybe it doesn't happen if the 3rd goal doesn't but the problem with game 5 is that the team in front of the goalie didn't show up until it was 4-0. It'd be hard for even Fleury as hot as he was to hold up against a team being outshot 28-17 after two periods.

I agree with this breakdown, outside of game #2 Jones was not an issue and the Sharks end up winning that game. It is very likely that if Fleury played for the Sharks the Knights would have had a very similar output.

The more interesting question is how would the Shark's output have changed facing Jones? I think there is a case to be made the in game #3 Fleury made a few saves that Jones might not have.
 
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Pinkfloyd

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I agree with this breakdown, outside of game #2 Jones was not an issue and the Sharks end up winning that game. It is very likely that if Fleury played for the Sharks the Knights would have had a very similar output.

The more interesting question is how would the Shark's output have changed facing Jones? I think there is a case to be made the in game #3 Fleury made a few saves that Jones might not have.

I think that's fair.
 
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Lebanezer

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Anomie2029

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If PDB has indeed been given an extension before the Playoffs - DW has undone a lot of good work with that decision and claiming Haley.

It will be a great look for the club if the best roster the place has ever had gets taken out in the first round.
 

Pinkfloyd

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If PDB has indeed been given an extension before the Playoffs - DW has undone a lot of good work with that decision and claiming Haley.

It will be a great look for the club if the best roster the place has ever had gets taken out in the first round.

I think DeBoer had that extension done before the season even started.
 
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