Fans views towards players changed or changing?????

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Jaded-Fan

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arnie said:
No. Quite frankly, Lemieux isn't bright enough to make up such a story.

He is bright enough to calculate the angle between himself behind the goal and the goalie in front to bank it off of the goalie into the net, as I have seen him do more than a few times. Her is smart enough to sound more composed and reasonable than Goodenow and Bettman combined. Arnie, once again . . .


:shakehead
 

Gee Wally

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Generally speaking, my opinion of the players has indeed changed over time.

They were always * in touch * with regular * people to me.

Now..they are much more like baseball, basketball, and football players.

It's harder to have a connection to the common guy I guess.
 

Seachd

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Mar 16, 2002
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Snydley Whiplash said:
No respect for players?????? I cannot for the life of me understand how a bunch of brain dead, financially incompetent, lying, cheating, and just plain stupid Management types get the respect of the public while the greatest athelites in the world have to suffer the indignities thrown at them from fans AND the media. Has the whole world suddenly lost its collective mind??

If you haven't already been banned for insulting every one of us on the boards, I'll try to explain it to you.

Those athletes, whose salaries we have spent millions of dollars to pay, don't care about us fans at all. Everything we care about - the teams, the league, the Cup, the hockey - the players have completely disregarded. They've given NHL fans a giant Screw You throughout this whole thing, and you wonder why the fans don't respect them?

It took them years to realize the problems the league is having (even though the whole world's been telling them the whole time), and yet they still refuse to do anything to fix it. The sad part is, they're doing it all for one reason and one reason only - they want money. They don't need to stop losing millions like the league in order to survive. They want their millions (which they'll get either way. At least, they would have if they'd have gotten a deal done), all the rewards, no risk, and the door wide open for salaries to escalate even if the league continues to lose money.

Yeah, it's real hard to see why the players get no respect.

As for the original post, I agree. It's going to be difficult to see these guys in the same light again. After some of his comments, I don't know how I'll feel about Ryan Smyth once the season starts up again. On a certain Flames board, there's nothing short of pure anger for Jarome Iginla from a lot of posters.

This is one area where I think the players underestimated the fans. I find it hard to believe people will continue to worship these guys once things get going.
 

Snydley Whiplash*

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oh, I'm sooo worried about the other posters, its making me lose sleep.
Ok, lets try this another way, when you watch a hockey game, do you go
to see premier athletes perform, or do you go to watch the owners and
GM's ply their trade?
Or, lets look at it another way. Why is it that a league(and this goes for basketball,
baseball, and football as well) stationed in the heart of democracy, in the hub
of capatalism, in the center of free trade want all there players to be paid
like socialists??? And furthermore, in this same place, why is it the owners should
be GUARENTEED a profit. What other business has this luxury? Where total
incompetence is rewarded no matter what????
This aint your daddies capatalism..................
 

Seachd

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Snydley Whiplash said:
oh, I'm sooo worried about the other posters, its making me lose sleep.
Ok, lets try this another way, when you watch a hockey game, do you go
to see premier athletes perform, or do you go to watch the owners and
GM's ply their trade?

That's an easy one. I go to watch the hockey. If they trade my favorite player, I'm going to go again. To watch my team.

A cap doesn't guarantee a profit for the teams. Especially the one the league offered earlier in the year.
 

dakota

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Snydley Whiplash said:
oh, I'm sooo worried about the other posters, its making me lose sleep.
Ok, lets try this another way, when you watch a hockey game, do you go
to see premier athletes perform, or do you go to watch the owners and
GM's ply their trade?
Or, lets look at it another way. Why is it that a league(and this goes for basketball,
baseball, and football as well) stationed in the heart of democracy, in the hub
of capatalism, in the center of free trade want all there players to be paid
like socialists??? And furthermore, in this same place, why is it the owners should
be GUARENTEED a profit. What other business has this luxury? Where total
incompetence is rewarded no matter what????
This aint your daddies capatalism..................

Yes but if an owner doesnt make a profit he either shuts down, or lays off people, etc., in this case the owners are going to fix their coroporation because it is not making money as a whole... you are right it is capitalism... and the owners are just following through on it. Business is business.. when they offer the players a lower salary cap... keep that in mind... its just business...

as for watching the game... most of us go to watch their favourite team play... players come and go... teams remain...

when this lockout ends in 2-3 years I will still tune in to watch the Vancouver Canucks... and I wont really care what players are playing as long as they are winning... go canucks go :yo:
 

ceber

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Snydley Whiplash said:
oh, I'm sooo worried about the other posters, its making me lose sleep.
Ok, lets try this another way, when you watch a hockey game, do you go
to see premier athletes perform, or do you go to watch the owners and
GM's ply their trade?
Or, lets look at it another way. Why is it that a league(and this goes for basketball,
baseball, and football as well) stationed in the heart of democracy, in the hub
of capatalism, in the center of free trade want all there players to be paid
like socialists??? And furthermore, in this same place, why is it the owners should
be GUARENTEED a profit. What other business has this luxury? Where total
incompetence is rewarded no matter what????
This aint your daddies capatalism..................


By all means, let's cut out this "socialist" stuff and go with pure capitalism. No more CBA, no more artificial restrictions on contracts. All players are free agents and any team can sign any player at any time.

You think the owners will do well under a cap? It's peanuts to how they'd do under a purely capitalist system.

I don't think anyone (apart from a couple of owners, I suppose) wants to go back to how it was in the past.
 

Lil' Jimmy Norton*

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Snydley Whiplash said:
oh, I'm sooo worried about the other posters, its making me lose sleep.
Ok, lets try this another way, when you watch a hockey game, do you go
to see premier athletes perform, or do you go to watch the owners and
GM's ply their trade?
Or, lets look at it another way. Why is it that a league(and this goes for basketball,
baseball, and football as well) stationed in the heart of democracy, in the hub
of capatalism, in the center of free trade want all there players to be paid
like socialists??? And furthermore, in this same place, why is it the owners should
be GUARENTEED a profit. What other business has this luxury? Where total
incompetence is rewarded no matter what????
This aint your daddies capatalism..................

If you are Bryan McCabe please take all your hockey equipment and hockey sticks and douse them with lighter fluid and burn them to a crisp ! Kinda like the way you got burned to a crisp in Philly last year in your last playoff game ever in a Leafs uniform. The owners assume all the risk, the players don't. I cheer for who wears the jersey, I don't care if his name is Smith or Jones as long as he gives 100% every night. If he doesn't want to play there are others who will gladly take his place. He can then go shovel ***t for all I care. All you are is meat...deal with it or do something else.
 

eye

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Snydley Whiplash said:
oh, I'm sooo worried about the other posters, its making me lose sleep.
Ok, lets try this another way, when you watch a hockey game, do you go
to see premier athletes perform, or do you go to watch the owners and
GM's ply their trade?
Or, lets look at it another way. Why is it that a league(and this goes for basketball,
baseball, and football as well) stationed in the heart of democracy, in the hub
of capatalism, in the center of free trade want all there players to be paid
like socialists??? And furthermore, in this same place, why is it the owners should
be GUARENTEED a profit. What other business has this luxury? Where total
incompetence is rewarded no matter what????
This aint your daddies capatalism..................


When I go to a Golden Gophers game I don't sit there and wonder whether or not the best possible players are playing that particular night. I just want to see good hockey, be entertained and cheer for my favourite NCAA team.

When I used to go to the Jets games I knew I wasn't seeing the best players on our team each night but continued to cheer for them and enjoy the back and forth action. I could care less if it's the next best tier of available players playing as long as my Jets were competitve and entertaining which they were most nights. I actually get more enjoyment from watching the Moose play this year than I ever did watching the Jets in the NHL. I did enjoy the Jets in the WHA because of 4 players and the style of play that they played.

When I go to see a WHL game I don't sit there and wonder if they are the best 16-20 years olds available. I go because I want to see two teams go hard and give 100% from start to finish and be entertained.

Are you starting to get the point. Replacement players along with current NHL players that cross the line will start the NHL season with the 55% linkage deal the NHL wants and needs to move forward. The name on the front of the jersey is way more important and long lasting than the name on the back which changes regularly due to trades, injuries, drafts, and retirement. These players are going to get ambushed and they can thank their leader for costing them billions in past and future revenues.

The next NHL cap offer will be 55% linkage and will amount to about $500,000-$750,000 in total salaries compared to double that if they used some common sense and cared about the game and it's fans like they all claim to. It will be a long time before they ever again get 42.5 hard cap offer without linkage and the players will look back at that offer wishing they had jumped at the chance to salvage a respectable % of revenues which could have gone up substantially if the players had considered the big picture and got better leadership.
 

me2

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Snydley Whiplash said:
To make it simple for you mentally challenged, think of it this way....
Bob Goodenow is in charge of a UNION. That UNION has gone thru an era of unprecedented growth and prosperity.
Gary Bettman is in charge of the NHL. The NHL has gone thru a period of unprecidented FAILURE. It is unanamous that the NHL is in free fall. And tell me again who is charge of the NHL????? Thats right, little girls and boys, that would be Mr Bettman.

You have brilliantly stated the case for a salary cap and 50% rollback. I don't think anyone couldn't have put it better.

BRAVO! :handclap: You rock! :bow:
 

HckyFght*

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I can't think of a single player I would be truly sorry never to see again.
-HckyFght!
 

richardn

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chiavsfan said:
Actually, last time I checked, during Bettman's reign, the NHL had (stress had because of the current situation) become a 2.1 billion dollar industry

Revenue means jack ****. It is the bottom line that matters. The league would be better off with lower revenue's if it meant a better league wide profitability.
 

richardn

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Mar 6, 2004
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Sault Ste. Marie
People seem to forget all the stuff the players do in there comunities to give back to the fans and local charities. The fact that the majority of the people pin all the blame on the players and hate there guts is just mind boggling to me.
 

Mountain Dude

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richardn said:
People seem to forget all the stuff the players do in there comunities to give back to the fans and local charities. The fact that the majority of the people pin all the blame on the players and hate there guts is just mind boggling to me.

At this point it just feels like they've done everything for money.

And nobody is pinning the blame all on the players, its both the different parties fault, except now the owners are trying to fix it, and the players refuse to do it.
 

me2

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richardn said:
People seem to forget all the stuff the players do in there comunities to give back to the fans and local charities. The fact that the majority of the people pin all the blame on the players and hate there guts is just mind boggling to me.

They are pretty much obliged to do big chunks of that by their teams. So basically its the owners paying the players to do it. Charities can thank the owners for a lot of it. Brian Burke was notorious for the amount of charity work his players were "expected" to do on behalf of the Nucks.
 

BAdvocate

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richardn said:
People seem to forget all the stuff the players do in there comunities to give back to the fans and local charities. The fact that the majority of the people pin all the blame on the players and hate there guts is just mind boggling to me.

What are they doing for their fans & local charities right now? To be honest, I have no idea, but I'm willing to bet 90% of them are doing absolutely nothing for any charity organizations.

It makes me wonder what % of the players look at charity work as just another part of the job in order to make their millions.

There are obviously some classy players, but my viewpoint that they were the classiest of the 4 major sports, has now been altered in that I now view the majority of them as 'just another stereotypical dumb athlete'.

I don't think the majority of us blame the players and 'hate' them, we just wish they would share the responsibility instead of following Goodenow's lead & pointing 100% of the blame at the owners.

It's mind-boggling to me that anyone can support the side that is getting paid millions of dollars as opposed to the side that is paying out millions of dollars.

How any hockey player can support Goodenow is mind-altering.
 

StanTheMan

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has my view toward the players changed? yes. the players are almost out of view.

i'm a blackhawks fan, and ever since i was little, i've kept track of every single game, staying on top of who scored, who fought, who was in goal... etc. i've mulled over stats, listened to games on headphones from 400 miles away trying to hold my walkman just right to get enough signal to hear the game through the static, soaked up every article i could... etc. i loved mikita and hull, esposito and maki (chico maki, best name ever!), secord, savard and larmer, wilson and smith and chelios, graham and fraser, roenick and belfour. and i love ruutu and vandermeer, mccarthy and calder, thibault and poapst.

but now that the games have been quiet for almost a year, all of that seems rather distant, almost too far away to make out. a part of history rather than the present.

i'm sure that when hockey - the nhl - returns, i'll root for my hawks again. but i'm not sure how into it i'll be. i'm sure there will be new faces on the team (as there will be on all the teams) and that will feel fake to me, contrived just to get things going again. i don't even know how much replacement players will be different (sure, the level of play won't be as great, but give it a couple of years and i think the talent level will recover), i'll have to get to know the hawks all over again.

i'm not so angry with the players right now because they are basically following pa leadership, which was formed in response to the criminal behavior of its own predecessor and the monopoly-enriched power of the owners. as a union member myself, i stand behind my leadership, but i speak up to that leadership when i have concerns, so i don't blame the players for speaking up (i just think that in some cases, a person should consider to whom he is speaking before opening his/her mouth).

it is up to the pa leadership - linden, guerin, goodnow, saskin... etc - to do their job, not the individual players. iginla said today that the players are behind the leadership and know they will get a fair (note: not 'best') deal and that the players were trusting them to do that. (personally, i think that all of this could have happened before sept. 15th and the players would have done much better than they are going to do, but that's moot now. the process is playing itself out and if both sides focus on what is right for all, then the league will recover.) i do not equate the players with their leadership. obviously the leadership is doing well enough to remain the leadership for now.

we'll see what happens this spring and summer with the league and the fan response.
 

BlueShirt

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Feb 17, 2005
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It's all about the jersey, not the players. The fact that some players are thinking of starting an alternative league is laughable. I don't know about the rest of you, but I will not spend one dime to see an NHLPA league. Like most of you, I grew up a fan of my NHL team and that isn't going to change. Heck, as a Rangers fan, I almost want to see replacement players. Maybe they will not sleepwalk like our regulars have been doing for the last 7 seasons. If anyone has suffered from watching lazy, millionaire, no heart players, it has been us blue shirt fans.

As much as I have been critical of Sather, he was pretty smart to trade off all of our overpaid veterans for young prospects and picks last season. He obviously saw the writing on the wall with this lockout. When the NHL starts back up we might have a roster full of young and hungry players. Hopefully Holik won't be back. After seeing his lockout comments I will never look at him the same way. He is the epitomy of overpaid and had no room to complain about anything.
 

Bicycle Repairman

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me2 said:
They are pretty much obliged to do big chunks of that by their teams. So basically its the owners paying the players to do it. Charities can thank the owners for a lot of it. Brian Burke was notorious for the amount of charity work his players were "expected" to do on behalf of the Nucks.

I realize there's a board preoccupation with dehumanizing the players, but let's try and step back a little. The Molokai Leper Colony in Hawaii may have a "For Sale" sign, but I doubt the NHL players are rushing to buy up beachfront property just yet.

Players are still continuing to support their favorite causes (let's remember this sort of community outreach often starts at the Junior and College level), only now there's no team PR department cranking out the press releases.

Players too have family members touched by diseases, or what have you. To bravely sit back behind a keyboard and claim it's all about contractual obligations is the height of sanctimony.

Who the hell are you?
 

me2

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Bicycle Repairman said:
I realize there's a board preoccupation with dehumanizing the players, but let's try and step back a little. The Molokai Leper Colony in Hawaii may have a "For Sale" sign, but I doubt the NHL players are rushing to buy up beachfront property just yet.

Players are still continuing to support their favorite causes (let's remember this sort of community outreach often starts at the Junior and College level), only now there's no team PR department cranking out the press releases.

Players too have family members touched by diseases, or what have you. To bravely sit back behind a keyboard and claim it's all about contractual obligations is the height of sanctimony.

Who the hell are you?


Touch a raw nerve? So are you denying the teams expected the players to fill roles in the community as part of their service to the teams?
 

eye

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I don't think there is any doubt that some players would still do their fair share or more of charity work whether or not it was in their contract or not but again my experiences with players tells me that most do it because it's part of every standard players contract. I think they enjoy it and there is a degree of self satisfaction in helping the less fortunate but most wouldn't bother if it wasn't mandated by contract and by their clubs whether that be junior, college, lower levels of pro or the NHL.
 

HockeyCritter

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I have respect for the players (well, the majority of them anyway) – it’s the PA that I have no respect for.
 
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